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The world's most loved and excuse racist:

135

Comments

  • #62
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    He aligned himself with a racist religion. While he left it a long time ago it was what he believed. I doubt many other people are allowed to forget being part of such a racist organisation.
    Are we meant to believe he entered the religion without any racists thoughts and then left without any? Mean while Mel Gibson is completely condemned for an outburst while drunk and apparently suffering from mental illness.


  • #63
    Mr Whirly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Mr Whirly


    old hippy wrote: »
    DJ Mark Radcliffe had a dodgy association with far right group Skrewdriver. He too, wised up...

    So did Suggs out of Madness and various other people around at the time that I don't think fully realised what was happening.
    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I dont for one second agree with his views, I just can see how he came to them in a time of great civil unrest and inequality.

    Yeah, so do I to an extent. I think if a lot of people here had a conversation with their grandparents or parents at the time they might be surprised with their differing attitude to that of todays.


  • #64
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Reading through the thread reinforces what i originally said, that people excuse his racism.


  • #65
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    Reading through the thread reinforces what i originally said, that people excuse his racism.

    Hmm. You haven't read through the thread, in that case. Context, Henlars, context.


  • #66
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    Reading through the thread reinforces what i originally said, that people excuse his racism.


    ...well seeing as you are setting up a false dichotomy, and just want the answers that conform with your prejudice, that's no big surprise.


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  • #67
    armchair fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭armchair fusilier


    You have to put those quotes in the context of when he said them and what they were a reaction to. He grew up in Kentucky in the 40's and 50's, him wanting to have nothing to do with white people after that is perfectly understandable.


  • #68
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

    He said -



    Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

    Context - His fiancée was killed during the war by the Germans.


  • #69
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    armchair fusilier wrote: »
    You have to put those quotes in the context of when he said them and what they were a reaction to. He grew up in Kentucky in the 40's and 50's, him wanting to have nothing to do with white people after that is perfectly understandable.

    They are in perfect context for the specific agenda that is being pushed.


  • #70
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    If I grew up like him, I'd probably feel the same. I have relatives in N.Ireland who really don't like unionists/loyalists and considering what they went through, I don't blame them.


  • #71
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    He aligned himself with a racist religion. While he left it a long time ago it was what he believed. I doubt many other people are allowed to forget being part of such a racist organisation.
    Are we meant to believe he entered the religion without any racists thoughts and then left without any? Mean while Mel Gibson is completely condemned for an outburst while drunk and apparently suffering from mental illness.
    How could he not have ill feelings towards whitey when he grew up in Jim Crow America. A lot of Irish people in N.Ireland of a certain age have the same feelings towards protestants.


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  • #72
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    I posted this earlier, don't know how many of you watched it.

    How you could watch it and not think 'racist' is beyond me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ


  • #73
    armchair fusilier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭armchair fusilier


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    I posted this earlier, don't know how many of you watched it.

    How you could watch it and not think 'racist' is beyond me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ

    That was back in 1971, a very different time. In 2009 he came to Ennis to visit the birthplace of his great grandfather. Which would kind of suggest a mellowing of opinion over the preceding 38 years.


  • #74
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Mohammad Ali lived in a time where being African American made you subhuman. where the colour of his skin meant he was no entitled to eat in the same restaurants as others, where he had to give up his seat etc all just because others thought themselves better than him and you think it disgusting HE had some racist views????

    As for Vietnam, that war, as he stated was with a nation that never wronged hom and that was a slaugter of American men for no good reason. He was too intelligent to go over and be another death.

    You know what? My father grew up in a time in Dublin where being working class meant you couldn't get seated in a restaurant. It also meant you got raped and beaten by priests. Would you excuse him if he ranted publically on the evils of the Irish? Or his kids did?

    White men died in Vietnam too.

    You know when the lefties started burning their draft cards? When the upper middle class in college were no longer exempt from the draft. Until then, the left didn't care.

    I liked Ali but I attribute a lot f what he says to boxing induced brain damage.


  • #75
    Pug160
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Pug160


    He was a great athlete and a legendary boxer but it looks like he had a lot of faults. I think most of his little rhymes were scripted, although I could be wrong. I don't think Ali grew up in that tough of an environment compared to some anyway. Didn't he have a job cleaning out middle class people's pools? If you're going to play the ''he had it tough card'' then just remember that there were people who had it much tougher yet still retained some class.

    Quite a lot of people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to sports idols. Even lots of wife beaters and alcoholics are still praised just because they had an athletic gift.


  • #76
    crockholm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    Pug160 wrote: »
    He was a great athlete and a legendary boxer but it looks like he had a lot of faults. I think most of his little rhymes were scripted, although I could be wrong. I don't think Ali grew up in that tough of an environment compared to some anyway. Didn't he have a job cleaning out middle class people's pools? If you're going to play the ''he had it tough card'' then just remember that there were people who had it much tougher yet still retained some class.

    Quite a lot of people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to sports idols. Even lots of wife beaters and alcoholics are still praised just because they had an athletic gift.

    Those little ditties were made up primarily by Herbert Muhammad and his cronies,Ali was a puppet for the FoI,there is no doubt that he had a charisma,but he was controlled and manipulated to further other peoples goals.

    He was racially demeaning of Joe Frazier,a Gullah from south carolina,a man who had suffered a lot more from racism and poverty than Ali ever did,and yet makes derogatory comments about his skin colour and calls him a"house n1gger" and uncle tom?The same man who was near alone in standing up for him in his hour of need !!!

    Frazier would not speak to him again,and even up to his death,would delight in his knowledge that the punishment he inflicted on Ali in Manilla was manifested in Ali's current state.


  • #77
    spock_jones
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭spock_jones


    ali is a living legend , a superstar and an icon

    so what If he had old fashioned ideas on race


  • #78
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    spock_jones wrote: »
    ali is a living legend , a superstar and an icon

    so what If he had old fashioned ideas on race

    The Ku Klux Klan had old fashioned ideas on race too.

    Ali actually met with them, besides the fact that they hated black people, as he shared their views on racial segregation.


  • #79
    spock_jones
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭spock_jones


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    The Ku Klux Klan had old fashioned ideas on race too.

    Ali actually met with them, besides the fact that they hated black people, as he shared their views on racial segregation.


    your not seriously comparing ali to the kkk , are you ?

    don't think he ever lynched anyone


  • #80
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    spock_jones wrote: »
    your not seriously comparing ali to the kkk , are you ?

    don't think he ever lynched anyone


    no one person has ever lynched anyone.


  • #81
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    spock_jones wrote: »
    your not seriously comparing ali to the kkk , are you ?

    don't think he ever lynched anyone

    No, I'm comparing their ideas on racial segregation.


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  • #82
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    crockholm wrote: »
    Those little ditties were made up primarily by Herbert Muhammad and his cronies,Ali was a puppet for the FoI,there is no doubt that he had a charisma,but he was controlled and manipulated to further other peoples goals.

    He was racially demeaning of Joe Frazier,a Gullah from south carolina,a man who had suffered a lot more from racism and poverty than Ali ever did,and yet makes derogatory comments about his skin colour and calls him a"house n1gger" and uncle tom?The same man who was near alone in standing up for him in his hour of need !!!

    Frazier would not speak to him again,and even up to his death,would delight in his knowledge that the punishment he inflicted on Ali in Manilla was manifested in Ali's current state.

    I don't blame Frazier for being annoyed about Ali's barracking but it always made me feel pretty sick when he gloated about making Ali into a wreck. That level of bitterness is always an ugly thing.


  • #83
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    How could he not have ill feelings towards whitey when he grew up in Jim Crow America. A lot of Irish people in N.Ireland of a certain age have the same feelings towards protestants.

    True, but I'm sure those Protestants wouldn't hold one if those nationalists as a hero.Same with Patrick Moore- I'm sure most Germans wouldn't hail him a hero. However Ali is revered by many Whites, the race he proclaimed he wanted nothing to do with. Anyway, we can all have views which we later come to regret, or change our mind. Nit sure what his views are now


  • #84
    btard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 391 ✭✭btard


    Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn’t matter which color does the hating. It’s just plain wrong.
    -Muhammad Ali

    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
    -Muhammad Ali


  • #85
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    btard wrote: »
    Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn’t matter which color does the hating. It’s just plain wrong.
    -Muhammad Ali

    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
    -Muhammad Ali




    His views on racial segregation are racist, regardless of whether he hated white people or not.

    to the best of my knowledge he has never retracted those views.

    If somebody can show evidence to the contrary then I will accept it.


  • #86
    mikeoneill893
    Site Banned Posts: 52 ✭✭mikeoneill893


    i would have thought ali was a very bright and witty guy


    and maybe he wasn't serious


    anyhow he deserve a lot more respect than some keyboard warrior.........


  • #87
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    mikeoneill893 wrote: »
    i would have thought ali was a very bright and witty guy


    and maybe he wasn't serious


    anyhow he deserve a lot more respect than some keyboard warrior.........

    Why?
    I don't like people who have racist views.
    I don't like people who treat others like dirt, especially people who have helped them.

    Should I just put him up on a pedestal like the masses do, despite the fact that I deplore some of the things he has done.

    I see that nobody has yet presented evidence that he retracted those views.


  • #88
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Bono, while not necessarily universally loved here in Ireland, is very popular in nearly every country throughout the world.

    And that's despite the fact that every time he claps his hands, a child dies in Africa.


  • #89
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    His views on racial segregation are racist
    The word racism seems to have lost its meaning... so many people hold that it means one thing or another...

    Identifying that there are differences in races and saying that different races should keep to themselves is not racist in itself in my opinion. Its an ideology most wouldn't agree with, but is it wrong? If you strip humanity down to its most basic level, we tend to stick with our own tribe - our races.


  • #90
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    Clandestine wrote: »
    The word racism seems to have lost its meaning... so many people hold that it means one thing or another...

    Identifying that there are differences in races and saying that different races should keep to themselves is not racist in itself in my opinion. Its an ideology most wouldn't agree with, but is it wrong? If you strip humanity down to its most basic level, we tend to stick with our own tribe - our races.


    If a white person was to say that white people should not dilute their race by breeding with blacks, then I'm pretty sure it would be racist.


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  • #91
    Wattle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Wattle


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    Why?
    I don't like people who have racist views.
    I don't like people who treat others like dirt, especially people who have helped them.

    Should I just put him up on a pedestal like the masses do, despite the fact that I deplore some of the things he has done.

    I see that nobody has yet presented evidence that he retracted those views.

    Right here......
    btard wrote: »
    Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn’t matter which color does the hating. It’s just plain wrong.
    -Muhammad Ali

    A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
    -Muhammad Ali





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