Gibraltar

Sunnyisland · 28-07-2013 09:05PM

MadsL wrote: »

Errm? Referendums by residents. Bit of a difference.

By the way, the Spanish have not returned the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_de_Albor%C3%A1n
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islas_Chafarinas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1%C3%B3n_de_V%C3%A9lez_de_la_Gomera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1%C3%B3n_de_Alhucemas

Also Spain has held no referendum in Western Saraha, a territory disputed with Morocco and with the local Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic independence movement. Kind of ironic since Spain's claim to Gibraltar is based on territorial integrity, as per UN Resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) which according to Spain complements and constrains the right to self-determination: "Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

It is quite ironic that spain is claiming Gilbralta and it has its own disputed territories just 10km away, its all a big game or can some show me the difference,:)

Fratton Fred · 28-07-2013 09:22PM

justforlaugh wrote: »

is there many irish living in Gibraltar, i never been there but just wonder

Jim Kennedy (the man at the centre of the Carrickmines corruption allegations) lives there apparently.

swimming in a sea · 28-07-2013 09:29PM

I was there a few weeks ago, I had brilliant time there, would love to live there with the low tax economy and great weather.

ArmaniJeanss · 28-07-2013 09:36PM

The comments section at the end of those 'Brave Britons v The Unwashed Foreign People' Daily Mail articles always the real treat.

expectationlost · 28-07-2013 09:50PM

MadsL wrote: »

Errm? Referendums by residents. Bit of a difference.

By the way, the Spanish have not returned the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_de_Albor%C3%A1n
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islas_Chafarinas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1%C3%B3n_de_V%C3%A9lez_de_la_Gomera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B1%C3%B3n_de_Alhucemas

Also Spain has held no referendum in Western Saraha, a territory disputed with Morocco and with the local Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic independence movement. Kind of ironic since Spain's claim to Gibraltar is based on territorial integrity, as per UN Resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) which according to Spain complements and constrains the right to self-determination: "Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

blaa blaa blaa its a military base pure and simple

Sunnyisland · 28-07-2013 09:57PM

expectationlost wrote: »

blaa blaa blaa its a military base pure and simple

Aah that's grand so...For a while I thought they were been just quite hypocritical in their claims.

Could you explain to me the difference

Would that mean that the USAF is not in Afganistan or Iraq or were there ? as in they just have bases there.

Judgement Day · 28-07-2013 10:07PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing a full-scale war break out over this as it might have the slightly positive effect of repressing the news about those Royal c**ts lately.

Classy comment. :rolleyes:

byhookorbycrook · 28-07-2013 10:18PM

I have been to Gibraltar and apart from the novelty of English flags and shops in a Spanish climate, meh. Caves are worth a look ,if you are there otherwise, meh again.

beeroclock · 28-07-2013 10:20PM

Was there once, interesting place, had a few beers and left with a pocket full of duty free cubans

losthorizon · 28-07-2013 10:23PM

beeroclock wrote: »

Was there once, interesting place, had a few beers and left with a pocket full of duty free cubans

Stowaways? - Castro must have been annoyed

beeroclock · 28-07-2013 10:24PM

ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Who else will do the garden, make me dinner and drive me to work

Kept schtum will ya

greenflash · 28-07-2013 10:24PM

mattjack wrote: »

Apes , Barbary Apes .

Monkeys, tailless macaque monkeys. Vicious bastards.

nice_very · 28-07-2013 10:33PM

I am in 2 minds about this issue, while I would not be in agreement with countries occupying parts of others, spain are occupying the other side of the entrance to the med sea, and I think any state having control of both sides of the entrance could be a potentially dangerous situation, both in times of (european) war and as currently, being one of the bailout countries...

then again, independence has been denied to many by the spanish state also, so meh.

Carawaystick · 28-07-2013 10:41PM

realies wrote: »

I find the Rock a great place full of history and so different from the Iberian penisuala which surrounds it

Cos there's feic all history in the rest of iberia.....

losthorizon · 28-07-2013 10:51PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Cos there's feic all history in the rest of iberia.....

Steps back in astonishment. Not only has it great history but some stupendous landscapes and wildlife to be seen.

MadsL · 28-07-2013 10:59PM

expectationlost wrote: »

blaa blaa blaa its a military base pure and simple

Ceded in 1713 under a legally binding peace treaty, the Treaty of Utrecht, signed by Phillip V of Spain. Perhaps you think Sicily should also be returned to Spain.

British presence is legal and supported by the residents. What's the problem?

Lando Griffin · 28-07-2013 11:11PM

We all live in Europe now and should get on with each other and forget about our internal bordrers.
What good has nations done only cause wars and conflict with each other.
When talking to an Orange man the other week about parades I told him soon everyone will be fighting for Europe because you have to think
of the bigger picture which is challanging China and the US as superpowers and being able to tell them what to do.

Guy:Incognito · 28-07-2013 11:11PM

Old and grey wrote: »

Thats fine, but the Spanish have every legal right to stop and check every vehicle and person crossing their border, there is nothing whatsoever illegal in that.

Lots of people have the right to do lots of things that make them dicks. Most choose not to though.

Im sure if the border with the north appeared again tomorrow with checkpoints and there was a 5 or 6 hour queue people would be happy to sit there too. Or would there be loads of threads about "the ****ing brits"

OCorcrainn · 28-07-2013 11:13PM

MadsL wrote: »

Ceded in 1713 under a legally binding peace treaty, the Treaty of Utrecht, signed by Phillip V of Spain. Perhaps you think Sicily should also be returned to Spain.

British presence is legal and supported by the residents. What's the problem?

Except the indigenous people in Gibraltar were subjected to ethnic cleansing and Gibraltar was then successfully planted by British colonists whose loyal descendants make up the demographic majority today.

Northern Ireland could have had a total and irreversible majority demographic of colonists and their descendants today if the British were more successful in their attempts at ethnic cleansing all the way through the plantations up until recent history. But thankfully that was not the case, they failed hence the ongoing conflict between the colonial descendants and the rest ever since.

Lapin · 28-07-2013 11:13PM

justforlaugh wrote: »

What harm would it do if Gibraltar was handed back to the spanish ..........

Dunno why they'd want it back.

The place is a kip.

endacl · 28-07-2013 11:17PM

Probably something to do with the 'BE' bit of MBE, OBE, and CBE. If the Empire didn't hang on to Norn Iron, Gibralter and the Falklands, then the 'British Empire' bit would be meaningless. They hand on to little bits of the world for the convenience of not having to rename a few aul' medals.

languagenerd · 28-07-2013 11:18PM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

So what you're saying is on the Gib side there are pubs with corrie on serving steak, eggs, and chips while across the border in Spain there are, uhm, pubs showing corrie and serving steak, eggs and chips

No wonder they don't want change!

Not at all, actually. La Línea de la Concepción (the town on the other side of the border) is very Spanish, I doubt you'd find anyone showing Corrie there! The only places in Spain you find English food & Corrie are the resorts on the Costas, go anywhere inland, west or north and you won't find them at all.

cometogether · 28-07-2013 11:21PM

I was in Gibraltar before. Absolutely hated it.

Guy:Incognito · 28-07-2013 11:21PM

MadsL wrote: »

British presence is legal and supported by the residents. What's the problem?

The first word in that sentence id say.

If it was a chunk of cornwall that was spanish for the last 300 years id say a lot of opinions would be reversed.

Mmmm_Lemony · 28-07-2013 11:28PM

cometogether wrote: »

I was in Gibraltar before. Absolutely hated it.

+1

Very few options in the way of food and ended up in a pizza place in the main square. Possibly the worst restaurant I have ever been in my entire life.

We went on a day trip and did a tour of the place. I will never be back. Can't figure why anyone would be fighting over such a kip. Having said that, 1% of the population are police so crime is extremely low compared to the rest of Britain, and there is also a different tax system, which makes it appealing to some.

Dozen Wicked Words · 28-07-2013 11:33PM

So if the Maori claim New Zealand back, or native Americans the USA, or Aboriginal people Australia, should all the settlers, which is what they all are, be asked to leave? These were all countries taken without consent so what's the difference

cometogether · 28-07-2013 11:35PM

I hated it simply because it just seemed so pathetically nationalistic and over the top patriotism.

MadsL · 28-07-2013 11:36PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Except the indigenous people in Gibraltar were subjected to ethnic cleansing and Gibraltar was then successfully planted by British colonists whose loyal descendants make up the demographic majority today.

Ah yes, the old ethnic cleansing allegation..any sources?

Northern Ireland could have had a total and irreversible majority demographic of colonists and their descendants today if the British were more successful in their attempts at ethnic cleansing all the way through the plantations up until recent history. But thankfully that was not the case, they failed hence the ongoing conflict between the colonial descendants and the rest ever since.

Well now, lets see what happened to Protestants in the new Irish Republic.

Study this http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/protestants_1861_1991.html#appendix_a

and come back to me on all those accusations of ethnic cleansing.

delthedriver · 28-07-2013 11:43PM

cometogether wrote: »

I hated it simply because it just seemed so pathetically nationalistic and over the top patriotism.

Compared with?

delthedriver · 28-07-2013 11:46PM

MadsL wrote: »

Ah yes, the old ethnic cleansing allegation..any sources?

Well now, lets see what happened to Protestants in the new Irish Republic.

Study this http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/protestants_1861_1991.html#appendix_a

and come back to me on all those accusations of ethnic cleansing.

Fair comment. It would be interesting if the figures for 2001 and. 2011 were available too.!

There has been ethnic cleansing against a back drop of people seeking asylum in Ireland .

Gibraltar

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