What a family needs to earn to be middle class?

DainBramage wrote: »

The 65k guy will presumably be getting the wifes tax free allowance also if shes not working. So that 65 k gross will nearly be 65 k net. Plus childrens allowance for 3 kids, he's not doing too bad.

Shane732 wrote: »

What now?

That's crap.

€65k gross for a married couple with one salary is somewhere in the low €40k's net.

smcgiff wrote: »

€45,609 per Deloitte tax calculator

smcgiff wrote: »

Then you'll have to wait until you're in the very high median of earners. It's also likely you'll not reach this until you are at least one or two decades into your career.

dotsman wrote: »

How much you earn does not determine your class. However, often, your class will determine how much you earn.

Does winning the lotto mean that a person immediately goes from working class to upper class? Look at the behaviour of many footballers and BS celebrities who suddenly find themselves loaded. Do you regard these people as classy?

Class is a set of attitudes/ambitions and standards as to one's place in society. There is no strictly defined class structure in Ireland, but, in general there are:

1. Welfare Class
2. Working Class
3. Lower Middle Class
4. Middle Class
5. Upper Middle Class
6. Upper Class

People typically don't move through the class structures in their lifetime, as how they are raised pretty much defines them. It's from generation to generation that changes in class may occur (ie two X class parents raising a child to Y class standards, in a Y class neighbourhood, with Y class friends, will often result in the child adopting Y class principles as an adult).

This is a quick table to show the differences between the classes. This is very high level and I'm sure there are lots of exceptions and things overlooked. Likewise, it may be common for a person to identify with different classes for the different categories.

Class Type:|Welfare|Working|Lower Middle|Middle|Upper Middle|Upper

Typical Education:|Low grade in the Leaving Cert|Leaving Cert. Many may have Fas/PLC Courses etc|Diplomas would be common, some degrees| You have to have a degree!|It's not that you have a degree, it's where the degree is from and what it is in|Highly mixed. Some will be really educated, while others will have no need (inheriting wealth/family business)

Typical Employment:|None|Low Skill - Service Industry, Factories, some trades|Trades and office admin|Professionals - Teachers, Nurses, some Engineers/IT|Professionals - Accountants, Solicitors, Doctors, some Engineers/IT etc|Top of their field in their profession or none at all (due to inheritance)

Typical Businesses:|None|Street Vendors, Self-Employed Taxi-drivers/tradesmen etc|Small Shops, Small Tradesmen businesses|Larger Shops/pubs or several small ones|Medium sized companies etc or part owner of large company|Large companies, part owner of huge company

Crime:|Rampant. Little belief in the law. Petty theft, burglary, antisocial behaviour/ drug dealing rife. Violent criminal gangs rule. Guards/Law are the enemy|Some antisocial behaviour, especially amongst youth. Theft/Burglary/Drug Dealing etc occur, but less frequent. Guards/Law are looked down upon and should not be co-operated with.|Some minor antisocial behaviour & drug dealing, some tax evasion (tradesmen etc). Guards/Law are generally respected.|Some tax evasion with business owners. Guards/Law are a pillar of the community (except when caught speeding!)|Some tax evasion with business owners. Guards generally respected (except when caught speeding!)|Tax evasion is more common. Guards/Law are somewhat respected, but only when convenient.

Behaviour/Appearance in Public:|Shameless|Not too fussed. Tracksuits common and not embarrassed about being loud/boisterous. Not too concerned about what others think|Some tracksuits on men, generally dressed in basics. Generally quiet, but can be loud at times. Concerned about what the neighbours think|Tracksuits are a no-no, Embarrassed to be seen when not looking their best. Generally very quite and not wanting to make a scene. Very concerned with what the neighbours (even strangers) think.|Must always look your best. Typically very quite. Always trying to impress neighbours & strangers|Very mixed attitudes. Some still play the middle class game (to excess) and try to impress, but most just don't care what the "plebs" think!

Financial Status:|Lives off welfare and proceeds of crime. May occasionally work from time to time for low wages.|Low wages, little savings and regular debt for small luxuries. Typically dependant on welfare (housing/child benefit, some medical cards etc) as supplement to wages.|Modest wages, no welfare dependency. Little to no savings/investments.|Fairly high salaries but with very little financial excess. Some modest life saving/investments. Business owners will own a decent-priced company, but little equity to be released.|High salaries. Some financial excess. Typically, build up a decent savings/investment portfolio over their lives. Business Owners typically own an impressive shareholding and can release some equity at ease)|Mixed salaries. Some very high (in the case of top professionals and business owners), others on none (where they simply live off inheritance etc). Financial excess is common. Typically has large savings/investments.

smcgiff wrote: »

No offence taken.

Not sure, I've not checked the Deloitte figures. But, I'd be surprised if they were wrong.

BTW, it is likely you should be paying more than €210 per month in pension on that income.