Train Crash In Spain: 'At Least 20 Killed'

expectationlost · 25-07-2013 12:54PM

do they not have system in place to prevent the train from going over certian speed on bends like that

Michael D Not Higgins · 25-07-2013 12:54PM

weisses wrote: »

Video of the crash

some speed it was traveling

Looks like the second carriage is riding off the rails and pulls the rest of it. Definitely going too fast.

Ruudi_Mentari · 25-07-2013 12:55PM

expectationlost wrote: »

do they not have system in place to prevent the train from going over certian speed on bends like that

Nothing like that was in place it seems.

Michael D Not Higgins · 25-07-2013 12:57PM

expectationlost wrote: »

do they not have system in place to prevent the train from going over certian speed on bends like that

Some networks have ATP (Automatic Train Protection) which will brake the train if it's speeding but usually not on the entire network. For example, I think the DART has it but not on the rest of the Irish network.

Ruudi_Mentari · 25-07-2013 01:01PM

That is as devastating a train wreck as we are likely to see

its horrible.

ProudDUB · 25-07-2013 01:07PM

Jesus, it looks like something a Hollywood director would spend hours and hours and millions of dollars trying to make look real. Hard to believe that it is actually real. RIP to all those who died.

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-07-2013 01:26PM

That driver will be lynched! Questions will also need to be asked of the Spanish railway authorities about speed sensors for detecting this kind of speeding on curves

Similar accident happened at Morpeth in 1969 in Britain which resulted in indications to the driver of speed restrictions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_accidents_at_Morpeth#1969_derailment

Barna77 · 25-07-2013 01:32PM

Local officials say there are foreigners in the list of casualties.

expectationlost wrote: »

do they not have system in place to prevent the train from going over certian speed on bends like that

Just heard an engineer saying that this part of the track is not strictly high speed so those systems are not in place there.

dublinman1990 · 25-07-2013 01:44PM

Sky is saying now that there at least 78 people in the crash.

http://news.sky.com/story/1120288/spain-train-crash-footage-of-disaster-emerges

A horrible story for those who had lost their lives. May they RIP.

But still though; I am not going to watch the moment the train crashed as it is too frightening to bear.

Michael D Not Higgins · 25-07-2013 01:48PM

Barna77 wrote: »

Just heard an engineer saying that this part of the track is not strictly high speed so those systems are not in place there.

That doesn't make sense. Surely the tighter curves on slower sections require ATP more than high speed sections.

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:07PM

weisses wrote: »

Video of the crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o32nxuHshv4

some speed it was traveling

Sickening to watch that.

The video would seem to back up what the general consensus was last night - the train was going way too fast. Though I'm no expert.

So what was the driver thinking? Was he drunk? Lapse in concentration? I'm not finger-pointing here by the way, as I'm not at all an expert and we're all a bit in the dark, just speculating what might have been the cause of this tragedy, as it does look as if it could have been human error...

Also just a side note, does anyone else find it surprising/strange how little attention this thread seems to be getting? Considering the scale of the tragedy is huge and it's in a fellow European country?

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:13PM

Just reading an article in El Pais there - apparently the driver said on the radio just before the crash 'I'm going at 190!'

Could suggest that he was aware he was going too fast but for whatever reason he couldn't control the speed. So maybe it's likely to be a technical error, faulty brakes or something like that?

25-07-2013 02:19PM

Yeah, newspaper articles are saying that he rang before and after the accident. Amazing to think they survived!

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:21PM

expectationlost wrote: »

do they not have system in place to prevent the train from going over certian speed on bends like that

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Some networks have ATP (Automatic Train Protection) which will brake the train if it's speeding but usually not on the entire network. For example, I think the DART has it but not on the rest of the Irish network.

Reading here in the article that the line was not part of the ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System) which is essentially a system which would have prevented the excessive speed on the bend.

So short answer, no, it didn't have anything like that.

becost · 25-07-2013 02:25PM

Morzadec wrote: »

Sickening to watch that.

The video would seem to back up what the general consensus was last night - the train was going way too fast. Though I'm no expert.

So what was the driver thinking? Was he drunk? Lapse in concentration? I'm not finger-pointing here by the way, as I'm not at all an expert and we're all a bit in the dark, just speculating what might have been the cause of this tragedy, as it does look as if it could have been human error...

Also just a side note, does anyone else find it surprising/strange how little attention this thread seems to be getting? Considering the scale of the tragedy is huge and it's in a fellow European country?

Adrenalin rush. Like when you come off the M50 and continue driving like a lunatic in 50 kph zones.

I Heart Internet · 25-07-2013 02:26PM

The driver of the train made a panicked phone call moments before the crash saying that the train was going too fast.

"I'm at 190 (kmph) and I'm going to derail!" the engine driver told the controllers of RENFE, the rail network.

Two men were at the controls of the train at the time, and it was not clear who had made the call.

Police sources told Spanish newspaper El Pais that, moments after the crash, the traumatised driver made another call to the operator.
"It derailed!" he said. "What am I going to do, what am I going to do? We are all humans – we're humans. I hope there are no fatalities because it will all be on my conscience."
Both the drivers escaped the crash with minor injuries.

According to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10201311/Train-in-Spanish-crash-was-travelling-at-more-than-double-the-speed-limit.html

Shocking stuff. I wonder was it a technical fault or driver error.

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:26PM

http://i.imgur.com/PGRBfwt.jpg

Picture of a queue of people lining up to give blood in Santiago last night.

They had to start turning people away apparently

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:28PM

becost wrote: »

Adrenalin rush. Like when you come off the M50 and continue driving like a lunatic in 50 kph zones.

Well apparently before that bend there is a stretch of 80km where the track is just basically straight, so there could be something to your theory/analogy.

It might have just been a very deadly brain fart.

I Heart Internet · 25-07-2013 02:29PM

I'm sure it was an unusually sombre and sad St James' Day in Santiago today. It's usually a very big deal for the city.

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:35PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I'm sure it was an unusually sombre and sad St James' Day in Santiago today. It's usually a very big deal for the city.

They've cancelled all the festivities, unsurprisingly

Michael D Not Higgins · 25-07-2013 02:46PM

Morzadec wrote: »

Reading here in the article that the line was not part of the ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System) which is essentially a system which would have prevented the excessive speed on the bend.

So short answer, no, it didn't have anything like that.

Regardless, have you ever unknowingly exceeded the speed limit in your car? Sure you have, we all take our eyes off the speedo and creep upwards.

Have you ever unknowingly gone over twice the speed limit on a section of road that you know, where you know the change in speed limits? Never, I'd imagine. Something additional at play here.

take everything · 25-07-2013 02:50PM

Morzadec wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/PGRBfwt.jpg

Picture of a queue of people lining up to give blood in Santiago last night.

They had to start turning people away apparently

That's quite heartening.
Restores my faith in humanity a bit.

Barna77 · 25-07-2013 02:54PM

Now it seems driver has boasted in the past on facebook or twitter about always driving trains at very high speed and always being on time....

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 02:55PM

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Regardless, have you ever unknowingly exceeded the speed limit in your car? Sure you have, we all take our eyes off the speedo and creep upwards.

Have you ever unknowingly gone over twice the speed limit on a section of road that you know, where you know the change in speed limits? Never, I'd imagine. Something additional at play here.

Well I don't drive, but yeah I imagine doing well over double the speed limit is not something commonplace

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 03:07PM

Barna77 wrote: »

Now it seems driver has boasted in the past on facebook or twitter about always driving trains at very high speed and always being on time....

Where you getting this?

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 03:08PM

Morzadec wrote: »

Where you getting this?

Nevermind, just reading it now...

bbam · 25-07-2013 03:11PM

Morzadec wrote: »

Well I don't drive, but yeah I imagine doing well over double the speed limit is not something commonplace

You'd be surprised what people get up to... speed is very addictive

Locally there used to be a bit of a "thing" to see who could clock the highest speed going through the 30mhp signs.. 90mph was not unusual

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 03:11PM

http://ep00.epimg.net/ccaa/imagenes/2013/07/25/galicia/1374755988_825305_1374757085_sumario_grande.jpg

Barna77 · 25-07-2013 03:12PM

Morzadec wrote: »

Where you getting this?

My brother lives in Spain, he told me some media have found about that.

Morzadec · 25-07-2013 03:17PM

Barna77 wrote: »

My brother lives in Spain, he told me some media have found about that.

Yup, here's the article in English. He posted up a picture of the speedometer at 200 on his facebook. This was back in March

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/07/25/inenglish/1374759834_669780.html?rel=rosEP

Train Crash In Spain: 'At Least 20 Killed'

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