Why can nobody speak Irish?

Dostoevsky · 25-07-2013 11:14AM

9959 wrote: »

If we take the sentence in 'bold' as a starting point, then this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship!

When will this be? As soon as you extend your bigotry against the Irish language into removing it from every sign in the state and campaign for taxes only to be spent on publishing, promoting and using the English language - as certain people have already demanded in this thread?

There are extremists in every society who are determined to secure their rights by denying others the same rights. That is all the anti-Irish types will settle for. After that, they'll seek out some other community to push around. They don't stop. Fortunately, they are generally less intelligent and extend their OCD into being against things rather than in favour of things so they very rarely get power when their only idea is hate for a weaker group.

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 11:15AM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I'm going to ask again, then:
You stated that removing mandatory Irish, legal enforcement of it on non-speakers, and massive government subsidy would be "discrimination".

Explain how doing so would prevent Irish speakers from speaking Irish.

slutmonkey - first of all you say its a dead language - when you got found out on that nugget you then changed the goalpost again to try and make out thats not what you said - now you change the goalpost again to suit yourself. This is what I posted in my last post to you - it is in english

it's not just the Irish language that seems to bother you - its a lot of "irish" things seem to bother you. On that note I won't be "feeding" your hobby anymore.

to explain: having read some of your previous "irish" posts - I have come to the conclusion that its not just the Irish language you have a problem with - its a lot of irish things.

I therefore have decided I won't be "feeding" your issues about ireland.

25-07-2013 11:19AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

When will this be? As soon as you extend your bigotry against the Irish language into removing it from every sign in the state and campaign for taxes only to be spent on publishing, promoting and using the English language - as certain people have already demanded in this thread?

There are extremists in every society who are determined to secure their rights by denying others the same rights. That is all the anti-Irish types will settle for. After that, they'll seek out some other community to push around. They don't stop. Fortunately, they are generally less intelligent and extend their OCD into being against things rather than in favour of things so they very rarely get power when their only idea is hate for a weaker group.

Who, me?

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 11:20AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

to explain: having read some of your previous "irish" posts - I have come to the conclusion that its not just the Irish language you have a problem with - its a lot of irish things.

I therefore have decided I won't be "feeding" your issues about ireland.

Implying Irish is the language of Ireland.

Dostoevsky wrote: »

There are extremists in every society who are determined to secure their rights by denying others the same rights. That is all the anti-Irish types will settle for. After that, they'll seek out some other community to push around. They don't stop. Fortunately, they are generally less intelligent and extend their OCD into being against things rather than in favour of things so they very rarely get power when their only idea is hate for a weaker group.

Are you serious? I would love to see how you back this up. If I remember correctly you're a Shinner aren't you? I wouldn't go berating other people's intelligence. :rolleyes:

aindriu80 · 25-07-2013 11:26AM

ViveLaVie wrote: »

English is a simple commoners' language? What? And what do the French do to their language? How exactly would you make Irish simple to use!? And what do you mean Italian was made up!?!? This has to be a troll post.

It's no troll. I just saw the thread when I logged into boards.ie yesterday and thought I would give my 2/c worth.

The Irish language could be easier to speak, follow and simplified. Italian is complicated but when you learn two verbs essere (to be) and avere (to have) you can follow whats going on even if you have a bare bones understanding of the language. When I watch the news as Gaeilge I can't even try and guess what the story could be about.

Italian is not made up but you could almost say it was 'invented'. It has so many dialects before unification when the new language was adopted. Still with all that they got one official proper language. It looks like we didn't make Irish more concrete and usable.

The French really back their culture which includes the language. We do the opposite speaking English at any opportunity and don't even think of putting Irish center stage and then accommodating English. Logically we are going in the wrong direction.

Anyway my point is that Irish is not beyond engineering. We use English too much instead of shaping our own language to reflect whats happening around us.

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 11:29AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Implying Irish is the language of Ireland.

Are you serious? I would love to see how you back this up. If I remember correctly you're a Shinner aren't you? I wouldn't go berating other people's intelligence. :rolleyes:

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here - Irish speaker = "Shinner".

how hilarious. In that case the whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South should furthermore be known as "shinnerland". And as for those islands off the west coast - a HOTBED of shinner shenanigans.

:D

Its all coming out in the wash now, why certain people don't want the Irish language to be part of Ireland anymore.

Sorry guys - its' here and it aint going anywhere.

25-07-2013 11:37AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here - Irish speaker = "Shinner".

how hilarious. In that case the whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South should furthermore be known as "shinnerland". And as for those islands off the west coast - a HOTBED of shinner shenanigans. :D

Its all coming out in the wash now, why certain people don't want the Irish language to be part of Ireland anymore.

Sorry guys - its' here and it aint going anywhere.

Wasn't aware that the "whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South" were Irish speaking. Wow!

Slutmonkey57b · 25-07-2013 11:39AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here - Irish speaker = "Shinner".

how hilarious. In that case the whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South should furthermore be known as "shinnerland". And as for those islands off the west coast - a HOTBED of shinner shenanigans. :D

One poster made a derogatory comment about wide swathes of people being stupid. Another poster responded with a derogatory comment about *that specific poster*.

How does that mean that the derogatory comment applies to all Irish speakers everywhere?

Projecting, much?

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 11:39AM

9959 wrote: »

Wasn't aware that the "whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South" were Irish speaking. Wow!

Irish is very prevalent in these areas of the country - with special irish bars, communities etc. Most people from the west are able to converse to a good degree if not fluent in irish. Not a big deal - we take it for granted.

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 11:41AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter here - Irish speaker = "Shinner".

how hilarious. In that case the whole West/Northwest/SouthWest and South should furthermore be known as "shinnerland". And as for those islands off the west coast - a HOTBED of shinner shenanigans. :D

Its all coming out in the wash now, why certain people don't want the Irish language to be part of Ireland anymore.

What? No Dostoevsky really is a Shinner.

fishy fishy wrote: »

Sorry guys - its' here and it aint going anywhere.

On a scale of 1-10 how certain are you about that?

http://www.gaelport.com/default.aspx?treeid=37&NewsItemID=5015

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SfRvdl9NIMg/Sx-SGo1iOLI/AAAAAAAAAA0/AVjpxzhLM3I/s400/An+Gaeltacht+-+maps.bmp

You're the old one, you need to get with the times. Irish cannot compete against American cultural hegemony and no revival under these conditions will ever be successful. The window of opportunity following independence was lost and now Irish will never be the language of majority.

If you want to continue your exercise in futility be my guest but try not spend too much of other people's money while you're at it.

Dostoevsky · 25-07-2013 11:41AM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

If I had claimed to know the etymology of the word, you might have a point. I raised it solely as an example to someone who claims that transliteration doesn't even take place.

Where, precisely, did the poster claim this? You ahistorically claimed Irish was a dead language which was 'resurrected'. S/he pointed out that Irish continues as a spoken language, with in many cases it remaining as the primary family language in an unbroken tradition. To this, you went off on a tangent choosing, of all words, carr as an example which you implied came from English. As if taking a word from a foreign language would negate the receiver's language as a proper language - have you ever seen the number of non-English words in English? Bad example, at any rate, because the English 'car' actually comes from the Irish 'carr'.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Incidentally, before he googled it, I'm sure Dursey didn't know it either. And it's an interesting factoid.

I knew it. It's well known to anybody familiar with the spoken language. And therein lies your problem: by your own choice, you're not one of these people. If you had the education to appreciate it, you'd have less hatred for it.

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 11:43AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What? No Dostoevsky really is a Shinner.

On a scale of 1-10 how certain are you about that?

http://www.gaelport.com/default.aspx?treeid=37&NewsItemID=5015

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SfRvdl9NIMg/Sx-SGo1iOLI/AAAAAAAAAA0/AVjpxzhLM3I/s400/An+Gaeltacht+-+maps.bmp

You're the old one, you need to get with the times. Irish cannot compete against American cultural hegemony and no revival under these conditions will ever be successful. The window of opportunity following independence was lost and now Irish will never be the language of majority.

If you want to continue your exercise in futility be my guest but try not spend too much of other people's money while you're at it.

It's great to have the money to spend on it though. Long may it live.

:D
Good 'ol Ireland.

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 11:47AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

It's great to have the money to spend on it though. Long may it live. :D
Good 'ol Ireland.

Good old Ireland indeed. Long may we continue to debate the status of the Irish language... In English.

:D:D

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 11:53AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Good old Ireland indeed. Long may we continue to debate the status of the Irish language... In English. :D:D

concessions must be made for those who can't seem to grasp their native language. poor divils. ;-)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-07-2013 11:56AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

concessions must be made for those who can't seem to grasp their native language. poor divils. ;-)

I speak my native language perfectly well, thank you very much. We wouldn't be having his conversation if I didn't...

25-07-2013 11:57AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

Irish is very prevalent in these areas of the country - with special irish bars, communities etc. Most people from the west are able to converse to a good degree if not fluent in irish. Not a big deal - we take it for granted.

I think it is a 'big deal,, I was labouring under the massive misapprehension that only a tiny percentage of our population spoke Irish on a regular basis, if what you say is true about: "the whole West/Northwest/Southwest and South" then I'll get my coat, for that would be a sizable number of people indeed.
I'll say it again....wow!

Dostoevsky · 25-07-2013 11:59AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would love to see how you back this up. If I remember correctly you're a Shinner aren't you? I wouldn't go berating other people's intelligence. :rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What? No Dostoevsky really is a Shinner.

I suppose in your own case you've just done that job for me because the 'memory' part of your intelligence is clearly thinking of another poster. The logical jump from "if I remember correctly" to he "really is" in the space of a few minutes is also instructive of the intelligence process.

Caliden · 25-07-2013 12:00PM

In secondary school you're taught about Irish literature and poems without even being able to have a full conversation with someone.

In other words, it's taught like you teach English in secondary schools when in actual fact it should be taught like other foreign languages, i.e. basic verbiage and grammar.

It's a sad state of affairs when I can speak more French than Irish despite doing both at an honours level for the Leaving Cert (B3 in Irish and D1 in French for what it's worth, low marks but more than I would've got in ordinary levels).

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 12:01PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

concessions must be made for those who can't seem to grasp their native language. poor divils. ;-)

You can continue to lament the ultimate destruction of the Irish language under American cultural hegemony all you want but as long as you do it in English you prove my point.

Irish is a brain dead language and government funding is it's life support machine, pull the plug and watch it die.

Don't get me wrong I don't want it to die, I don't particularly care. I just don't like it being shoved in my face all the time or the money spent it.

fishy fishy · 25-07-2013 12:03PM

9959 wrote: »

I think it is a 'big deal,, I was labouring under the massive misapprehension that only a tiny percentage of our population spoke Irish on a regular basis, if what you say is true about: "the whole West/Northwest/Southwest and South" then I'll get my coat, for that would be a sizable number of people indeed.
I'll say it again....wow!

I can't believe you didn't know - maybe that's where you were going wrong.
Maybe head to the west for a holiday and you will see for yourself. You won't need a coat - it's pretty warm. .

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 12:04PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I suppose in your own case you've just done that job for me because the 'memory' part of your intelligence is clearly thinking of another poster. The logical jump from "if I remember correctly" to he "really is" in the space of a few minutes is also instructive of the intelligence process.

All I'm saying is someone who votes SF shouldn't make accusations about someone else's intelligence.

Henlars67 · 25-07-2013 12:08PM

If you want to learn/speak Irish then fine, but don't force anyone else.

The only good thing about English rule here was the fact that our first language is English, a useful language.

Irish is of no use to anybody except people who like to look down on others as not being as Irish as they are.

It is utterly ridiculous that this absolutely useless language is forced onto children at school.

OldNotWIse · 25-07-2013 12:08PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You can continue to lament the ultimate destruction of the Irish language under American cultural hegemony all you want but as long as you do it in English you prove my point.

Irish is a brain dead language and government funding is it's life support machine, pull the plug and watch it die.

Don't get me wrong I don't want it to die, I don't particularly care. I just don't like it being shoved in my face all the time or the money spent it.

Likewise. I think the majority of supporters simply do so to make a point. Certainly any (rare) time I see people speaking Irish, they seem to be looking for a reaction.

How much money has the government wasted under the official languages Act, translating documents, while sick people lie on hospital trolleys and children have to wait two years for medical treatment?

Arsed up priorities to appease a few bored stick in the muds.:D

TireeTerror · 25-07-2013 12:09PM

Apart from hanging onto a bit of culture, really what is the point in learning Irish Gaelic? It would serve no particularly useful purpose whatsoever.

Im from a small Scottish island and many people know Scots Gaelic, I used to be pretty good at it too, but it was never a cool thing to learn. The teacher was really old fashioned and totally God fearing, so instead of focusing on learning, everyone just took the piss out of her about God and she would bite at the slightest mention of anything to do with the devil. Looking back it was terrible and she was lovely, so Mrs MacKay, on behalf of everyone at Tiree High School, I do apologise for making your life hell! Oh dear Ive mentioned "hell" again!!!!

About the only positive thing I ever saw in Gaelic when I was about 10 years old, was an immature belief that by learning it, I would somehow be supporting my ancestors who fought for so long against England. Nowadays I could learn it easily enough if I applied myself, I have many friends who speak it, and my dad is fluent. I just dont see the point, especially as I live in Ireland. Although there are many many similarities, its still quite different.

Roger_007 · 25-07-2013 12:10PM

9959 wrote: »

I think it is a 'big deal,, I was labouring under the massive misapprehension that only a tiny percentage of our population spoke Irish on a regular basis, if what you say is true about: "the whole West/Northwest/Southwest and South" then I'll get my coat, for that would be a sizable number of people indeed.
I'll say it again....wow!

Another 'WOW' here. I spend a lot of time in Donegal and have rarely heard a word of Irish spoken even in the so-called Gaeltacht areas. You are much more likely to hear a conversation in Russian or Polish than in Irish.

becost · 25-07-2013 12:21PM

Cad a dhéanann tú chiallaíonn labhraíonn aon duine na hÉireann?

Dostoevsky · 25-07-2013 12:21PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All I'm saying is someone who votes SF shouldn't make accusations about someone else's intelligence.

You're not helping your claims to intelligence here. If you want to get a quote from me saying or even implying such a voting preference, work away. You won't find it because you haven't got the ability intellectually to remember correctly who you're thinking about, because it isn't me.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Irish is a brain dead language and government funding is it's life support machine, pull the plug and watch it die. I just don't like ... the money spent it.

Its. You sound like you've been a hard-pressed PAYE worker for years, not a mere Arts student who is living off the taxes Irish speakers, among others, pay. I get the impression at any rate from your comments in other threads that if you ever did start earning money you'd be setting up all sorts of shady tax-dodging systems using some rightwing Libertarian pseudo-philosophy to explain why you shouldn't have to pay a cent in tax... before being caught.

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 12:25PM

TireeTerror wrote: »

About the only positive thing I ever saw in Gaelic when I was about 10 years old, was an immature belief that by learning it, I would somehow be supporting my ancestors who fought for so long against England.

+1 Looking at this thread a few posters haven't developed past your ten year old mental state.

Iwasfrozen · 25-07-2013 12:35PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

You're not helping your claims to intelligence here. If you want to get a quote from me saying or even implying such a voting preference, work away. You won't find it because you haven't got the ability intellectually to remember correctly who you're thinking about, because it isn't me.

Oh I don't claim to be intelligent. You did though. And fair enough I did say if I recall correctly. Out of interest what party do you support?

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Its. You sound like you've been a hard-pressed PAYE worker for years, not a mere Arts student who is living off the taxes Irish speakers, among others, pay. I get the impression at any rate from your comments in other threads that if you ever did start earning money you'd be setting up all sorts of shady tax-dodging systems using some rightwing Libertarian pseudo-philosophy to explain why you shouldn't have to pay a cent in tax... before being caught.

Actually that's not true. I value free education for all citizens very highly and would gladly pay taxes to support this measure. Without free fees I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go to third level and I would never through conscience effort deny that opportunity to another person.

The Irish language on the other hand is a joke. It will never be revived as the majority language of Ireland and if you are investing time or money in the pursuit of those goals then quite frankly I feel sorry for you.

Henlars67 · 25-07-2013 12:36PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All I'm saying is someone who votes SF shouldn't make accusations about someone else's intelligence.

Ha, that line of stupidity renders any other arguments you may have totally invalid.

You cannot cast aspersions on somebody's intelligence based on who they vote for.

That is absurd.

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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