No pleasing most here

TheBza · 17-07-2013 04:20PM

bigpoppa wrote: »

This "commercial rap" makes me laugh, this whole notion that something is not decent because it is commercially successful? The 'hardcore' wu fans should research how much they are actually worth. Quality and success are not mutually exclusive and spouting about unknown artists is great but most are no good. If they were good they would be successful and then you would call them commercial.

I listen to all sorts I like Jayzfan and like kanye - not crazy about the new album but he is trying something new. The most important thing is people respect each others opinions and debate properly and not like children

I laugh at the 'hardcore' probably sitting at home in their ma's

I dont care if an artist is commercially successful, its when they start making the music to be commercially successful if you get me, its the poppy, dance influenced, over the top produced beats with pop artists that i hate, you mentioned wu, they are one of the if not biggest selling hip hop group, but they still managed to maintain a noncommercial sound, apart from Gravel Pit, which is the only one i can really think of off the top of my head , and a few members solo features away from the clan.

Thats the way i see the new Jay-Z/Kanye albums, were Wu would cater for the most part of their loyal following for an album, Jay-Z/Kanye go for that commercial market and dont give a sh1t about their following. I used to like Jay-z, now i cant stand the pr1ck.

And leave me ma outta this right!

jonneymendoza · 18-07-2013 06:02AM

bigpoppa wrote: »

This "commercial rap" makes me laugh, this whole notion that something is not decent because it is commercially successful? The 'hardcore' wu fans should research how much they are actually worth. Quality and success are not mutually exclusive and spouting about unknown artists is great but most are no good. If they were good they would be successful and then you would call them commercial.

I listen to all sorts I like Jayzfan and like kanye - not crazy about the new album but he is trying something new. The most important thing is people respect each others opinions and debate properly and not like children

I laugh at the 'hardcore' probably sitting at home in their ma's

WELL SAID. this is spot on. it seems if you are a known artist you are commercial and many will moan but if you are an unknown artist you are the best thing since NAS.

watch how when Kendrick releases his next album, many will call it average and pop purely because he is big now lol

jonneymendoza · 18-07-2013 06:04AM

TheBza wrote: »

Sorry no its not, and its not commercial pop, its commercial rap.

Put some unknown rapper on piscao and you and others wouldnt be calling it commercial rap

Jimmy Iovine · 18-07-2013 08:20AM

jonneymendoza wrote: »

WELL SAID. this is spot on. it seems if you are a known artist you are commercial and many will moan but if you are an unknown artist you are the best thing since NAS.

Jeez, give it a rest. People don't agree with your opinion on Jay-Z. Move on.

I've been harping on about Chamillionaire ever since I started posting here. The only person I think I've managed to change is Mufcboy.

Don't take everything so personal. I'm sure you're a nice guy. What harm if people don't think Jigga's album is good?

Some unknown rappers are better than 'commercial' rappers. Emcee Jermaine, Thesis, Saheed and Koncept are all better than the majority of their charting colleagues.

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Put some unknown rapper on piscao and you and others wouldnt be calling it commercial rap

What is "piscao"? This point seems to be the same as the previous one (quelle surprise) but it makes no sense.

watch how when Kendrick releases his next album, many will call it average and pop purely because he is big now lol

That's BS and you know it.

jigglypuffstuff · 18-07-2013 08:55AM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Jeez, give it a rest. People don't agree with your opinion on Jay-Z. Move on.

I've been harping on about Chamillionaire ever since I started posting here. The only person I think I've managed to change is Mufcboy.

Don't take everything so personal. I'm sure you're a nice guy. What harm if people don't think Jigga's album is good?

Some unknown rappers are better than 'commercial' rappers. Emcee Jermaine, Thesis, Saheed and Koncept are all better than the majority of their charting colleagues.

What is "piscao"? This point seems to be the same as the previous one (quelle surprise) but it makes no sense.

That's BS and you know it.

Cham is an absolute beast!!! been following him since Ridin' and he continually improves i think...what an exceptional artist....I enjoyed his latest offering Elevate.

jonneymendoza · 18-07-2013 09:01AM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Jeez, give it a rest. People don't agree with your opinion on Jay-Z. Move on.

I've been harping on about Chamillionaire ever since I started posting here. The only person I think I've managed to change is Mufcboy.

Don't take everything so personal. I'm sure you're a nice guy. What harm if people don't think Jigga's album is good?

Some unknown rappers are better than 'commercial' rappers. Emcee Jermaine, Thesis, Saheed and Koncept are all better than the majority of their charting colleagues.

What is "piscao"? This point seems to be the same as the previous one (quelle surprise) but it makes no sense.

That's BS and you know it.

Yea i dont care much if you hate Jayz and every single rapper that makes the charts .

i guarantee you that people here will slate Kendrics next LP now that he is succesfull and "commercial".

Watch this space. i am just observing how many dont like any rapper that is in the charts, period.

Next big album to come out of the commercial space is eminem. watch it get slated too

jonneymendoza · 18-07-2013 09:05AM

TheBza wrote: »

Thats the way i see the new Jay-Z/Kanye albums, were Wu would cater for the most part of their loyal following for an album, Jay-Z/Kanye go for that commercial market and dont give a sh1t about their following. I used to like Jay-z, now i cant stand the pr1ck.

And leave me ma outta this right!

i missed this quote but Kanye catering forthe commercial market? Jesus have you even listened to the album?

If you did then please tell me how that album sounds like a commercial catered kanye album?

Many here have said the album is no where near a commercial album, but a huge experimental album that some do not like which is fine but to call inna bog standard comercial rap album is something i and probably many others do not agree.

Jayz i can understand people as some of the beats and lyrics are in the confort zone not expressing new/refreshing sounds/flows/lyrics but Kanye's latest album is the COMPLETE opposite

Jimmy Iovine · 18-07-2013 09:24AM

pone2012 wrote: »

Cham is an absolute beast!!! been following him since Ridin' and he continually improves i think...what an exceptional artist....I enjoyed his latest offering Elevate.

Good to hear. Have you heard his latest freestyle?

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Yea i dont care much if you hate Jayz and every single rapper that makes the charts .

Woah Sally. Where did I say I "hate Jayz and every single rapper that makes the charts"?

...

Oh yea, that's right, I didn't.

I said, and I quote:

Some unknown rappers are better than 'commercial' rappers. Emcee Jermaine, Thesis, Saheed and Koncept are all better than the majority of their charting colleagues.

Maybe you're having some problems because it's early in the morning but I'll explain what I meant.

I listed four random artists from my iTunes who I feel have put out some music in the last year/two that is better than music released by "the majority" of rappers in the charts. The following definition may be of use. Read it.

ma·jor·i·ty - the number larger than half the total

I never mentioned any of these 'charting' rappers but I also said that the four unknowns aren't better than all of them. Kendrick is better. Nas is better. J Cole is probably better (when he decides to release music like he has this year). Jay-Z is better. Kanye isn't a better MC but he makes up for that with his beats. Eminem was better. Whether he still is is a personal opinion.

There are loads that aren't better and these are the guys I meant - Lil Wayne, Ross, Drake and a plethora of other rappers who I'm not going to bother listing.

Next big album to come out of the commercial space is eminem. watch it get slated too

If Em's next album gets slated it'll be because it's crap. He is capable of putting out bad music. Personally, his last few offerings have been sub-par. I'm not going to bother with whatever he releases next unless I'm blown away by a leak.

i guarantee you that people here will slate Kendrics next LP now that he is succesfull and "commercial".

Some will, most won't. It's the same with any album. Not everyone can be as subjective and insightful as you.

Watch this space. i am just observing how many dont like any rapper that is in the charts, period.

I think pretty much everyone on this forum likes at least one rapper in the chart.

No wait, "I guarantee" that everyone on this forum likes at least one rapper in the charts.

See, I can do hyperbole as well.

I await your response. Please try not to twist my words again though to suit your argument.

mufcboy1999 · 18-07-2013 12:10PM

Good music is good music commercial or not IMO. I try to take albums for what they are, if they sound good they sound good even if a rapper is lyrically at f*ck all on it I'd still be capable of enjoying it even if it's a RIck Ross etc.

Still think the 2 lads have released pure and utter rubbish though nothing to do with the content/lyrics , Kanye gives me a headache while jay z puts me asleep despite that Iv bought the 1 or 2 of each album that I liked on iTunes.

Bobby Baccala · 18-07-2013 02:05PM

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Next big album to come out of the commercial space is eminem. watch it get slated too

Eminem has been commercial since the slim shady lp, how many of his albums have been slated round here, maybe his last one? This is absolute nonsensical bollocks talk tbh.

Albums get slated because they're bad albums with bad beats and bad lyrics, not because they're commercial.

@Jimmy you brought me to the chamillionaire side as well when the ammunition ep came out last march if I recall correctly, before then I didn't take him seriously, just thought he was another 1 hit wonder tbh

mufcboy1999 · 18-07-2013 02:21PM

Recovery is a better album than Kanyes and jay z's recent efforts IMO... I dont know how anyone can knock recovery and defend yeezus or magna.

jonneymendoza · 18-07-2013 03:28PM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Eminem has been commercial since the slim shady lp, how many of his albums have been slated round here, maybe his last one? This is absolute nonsensical bollocks talk tbh.

Albums get slated because they're bad albums with bad beats and bad lyrics, not because they're commercial.

@Jimmy you brought me to the chamillionaire side as well when the ammunition ep came out last march if I recall correctly, before then I didn't take him seriously, just thought he was another 1 hit wonder tbh

People have slated every album of eminemns bar slim shady and marshal mathers.

Also, i love Recovery. that was possibly my album of the year when it came out.

Bobby Baccala · 18-07-2013 04:11PM

jonneymendoza wrote: »

People have slated every album of eminemns bar slim shady and marshal mathers.

Also, i love Recovery. that was possibly my album of the year when it came out.

Who slated these albums? because I don't remember anybody saying a bad word about encore, the eminem show or infinite.

Relapse and recovery deserved a lot of the negative criticism they received because they're not the best of albums.

I doubt there is anybody that on this forum that hates every bit of commercial hip hop around because there are still some gems floating around like kendrick and pretty much everybody on this forum is a fan of his in some way, same with jay z and kanye's music, past or present.

Bobby Baccala · 18-07-2013 04:14PM

What are peoples actual problems with magna carta?? It's a grand album, not immense by jay z's standards or anything but I think a few people are just disliking it for the sake of it because the production is nice and the lyrics are above average.

I can understand the dislike for kanyes album a lot of people have because tbh it's pretty poor, I seriously dislike it

Boom_Bap · 18-07-2013 08:24PM

I think MCHG is alright, but not the mega uber album that has been hyped up.......hyped up by myself.
But after watching Jay'z interview with Zane Lowe, it's maybe given me more appreciation for the album and how it came about.

18-07-2013 11:32PM

Had a little work to do this evening so figured I'd throw on the two albums and see if there was something I didn't get the first few times. Good as both albums there's simply no killer track between the two. Don't get me wrong there are very good tracks on both but none that made my jaw drop and think "I need to hear that again right now."

My favorite part of Yeezus is the sample that kicks in around the 2:54 mark on New Slaves. I really wish that Kanye had laid down a couple of versus atop it as it has a real old school sound to it.

Here's the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGt-rTDkMcM

mufcboy1999 · 19-07-2013 11:40AM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

What are peoples actual problems with magna carta?? It's a grand album, not immense by jay z's standards or anything but I think a few people are just disliking it for the sake of it because the production is nice and the lyrics are above average.

I can understand the dislike for kanyes album a lot of people have because tbh it's pretty poor, I seriously dislike it

The production isn't all that great , I think people want to think the actual production is great because of the big names on it and the hype surrounding it. There's been albums released this year that are head and shoulders above magna production wise and without the massive commercial production team that was assembled by jay.

The lyrics well there's only so much boastfulness I can listen too without switching off. I don't know if jay picked up that trait from kanye but he's seriously rapping about f*ck all for the vast majority of the album, it's just a boring album IMO and he's at nothing on it.

Bobby Baccala · 19-07-2013 11:43AM

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

The production isn't all that great , I think people want to think the actual production is great because of the big names on it and the hype surrounding it. There's been albums released this year that are head and shoulders above magna production wise and without the massive commercial production team that was assembled by jay.

The lyrics well there's only so much boastfulness I can listen too without switching off. I don't know if jay picked up that trait from kanye but he's seriously rapping about f*ck all for the vast majority of the album, it's just a boring album IMO and he's at nothing on it.

Even if you think he is at nothing on it didn't you say a couple of posts ago you don't care if a rapper is doing fùck all on an album as long as it sounds good?

Some of the beats are pretty nice, and you can't deny that oceans is a belter of a song! More so because of frank however but still.

mufcboy1999 · 19-07-2013 12:27PM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Even if you think he is at nothing on it didn't you say a couple of posts ago you don't care if a rapper is doing fùck all on an album as long as it sounds good?

Some of the beats are pretty nice, and you can't deny that oceans is a belter of a song! More so because of frank however but still.

I did and I also said I bought the few tracks I enjoyed off the album like bbc or f*ck with me ft ross which is a perfect example of a song when both are seriously at nothing on it ! the beat saves it tbh the best part of that song was prob pimp c's intro.

There's some horror beats on it like track 2 and 3 on the album ( can't remember the names ), the song with Beyonce etc there bad songs for me. Maybe it's jay z on the actual beats that's throwing me off because he really does butcher a few on it.

Take bbc for example nas kills it while jay nearly ruins it. He was certainly average to say the least on this album just like his past few attempts IMO.

Bobby Baccala · 19-07-2013 12:34PM

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I did and I also said I bought the few tracks I enjoyed off the album like bbc or f*ck with me ft ross which is a perfect example of a song when both are seriously at nothing on it ! the beat saves it tbh the best part of that song was prob pimp c's intro.

There's some horror beats on it like track 2 and 3 on the album ( can't remember the names ), the song with Beyonce etc there bad songs for me. Maybe it's jay z on the actual beats that's throwing me off because he really does butcher a few on it.

Take bbc for example nas kills it while jay nearly ruins it. He was certainly average to say the least on this album just like his past few attempts IMO.

Can't agree with that I don't think the bbc beat suited Nas at all tbh.

The beyonce and jay z track while not the best will probably be the biggest single off it

mufcboy1999 · 19-07-2013 12:53PM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Can't agree with that I don't think the bbc beat suited Nas at all tbh.

The beyonce and jay z track while not the best will probably be the biggest single off it

It has the biggest commercial potential as a single alright , Just marrying the biggest pop star in the world alone done jays later career wonders because like I said previous his last few albums have been cat.

Jimmy Iovine · 19-07-2013 04:03PM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

@Jimmy you brought me to the chamillionaire side as well when the ammunition ep came out last march if I recall correctly, before then I didn't take him seriously, just thought he was another 1 hit wonder tbh

And it was the best decision you'll ever make :pac:.

Personally, I think he's one of the most under-rated rappers out there. Ridin' was a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it was one of the biggest and most widely known rap singles of the decade and it won a Grammy. A curse because his follow-up album flopped (not his fault. It's brilliant, imo) and Ridin' is pretty much all he's known for by casual rap fans.

I really hope I get to see him live some time.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

It has the biggest commercial potential as a single alright , Just marrying the biggest pop star in the world alone done jays later career wonders because like I said previous his last few albums have been cat.

I think I must be in the majority around here but I really like American Gangster. I love the film. The album isn't one of Jigga's best but it's better than Blueprint 3 anyway.

Masked Man · 19-07-2013 11:31PM

I ****ing love American Gangster (film and album). Think I'm just a sucker for soul music.

jigglypuffstuff · 21-07-2013 10:33AM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Good to hear. Have you heard his latest freestyle?

No im gonna go check it now :cool:

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Next big album to come out of the commercial space is eminem. watch it get slated too

It will get slated if it is crap simple as...

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

The production isn't all that great

100% it was the most disappointing aspect of the album for me

jonneymendoza wrote: »

watch how when Kendrick releases his next album, many will call it average and pop purely because he is big now lol

People will call it whatever it is....regardless of the artist

mufcboy1999 · 22-07-2013 03:55PM

American gangstas alright , nothing special but agreed its better than bp3. The film on the other hand is one of my all time favs, danzel excellent as usual.

Talib Fiasco · 22-07-2013 04:47PM

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

American gangstas alright , nothing special but agreed its better than bp3. The film on the other hand is one of my all time favs, danzel excellent as usual.

The album was excellent...It's his 4th best imo.

mufcboy1999 · 23-07-2013 11:30AM

For me I'd have to go back a lot further than American gangsta to call a jay z album excellent, it's not a bad album though by any means.

floggg · 24-07-2013 10:09PM

TheComeUp wrote: »

The album was excellent...It's his 4th best imo.

His 5th at best i'd say. Though Falling is in his top 10 or 20 songs ever.

It shows how good he has been when you have to stretch the list out to 20 to give a such a great song a compliment.

Kylo Ren · 25-07-2013 04:11PM

I purposely avoided Cham based on Ridin'. It was class when it came out but as the years passed and I started to delve more into rap i just labeled it as trash and whenever I saw people talk about him I was just like "That Ridin' dirty chap? Pfffff". I downloaded Ammunition when it came out and was shocked.

Jimmy Iovine · 25-07-2013 04:46PM

Keno 92 wrote: »

I purposely avoided Cham based on Ridin'. It was class when it came out but as the years passed and I started to delve more into rap i just labeled it as trash and whenever I saw people talk about him I was just like "That Ridin' dirty chap? Pfffff". I downloaded Ammunition when it came out and was shocked.

Listen to his Mixtape Messiah series from a few years back. He jacks a load of popular beats from that time and does a better job on a lot of them than the original artist.

I think this is why I love rap so much.

Probably my two favourite artists/groups are Cham and the Chili Peppers. Both put out albums a few months apart back in the middle of the '00s - Sound of Revenge and Stadium Arcadium.

Since then, both have put out one more album each - Ultimate Victory and I'm With You.

RHCP have pretty much released barely 20 songs over the course of 7 years. Cham has put out one album, 11 mixtapes (one of which was a four disc tape) and 3 EPs. I'm not going to bother adding them up but that's not far off 200 songs.

Not all of them are brilliant but a majority of them are.

I love the Chili Peppers but I can only listen to their new album for so long before getting bored. I still haven't listened to all of the music that Cham has released over that 7 year period.

I think rappers are more inclined to release lots of music. It's part of the culture that they were brought up in. They don't care about giving music away for free. 70% of the music I mentioned above from Cham is free. It doesn't happen as much in other genres.

And that's why I love rap.

No pleasing most here

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