Why can nobody speak Irish?

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:47AM

astonaidan wrote: »

Dude I did a :rolleyes:, and you said people like me disgust you.
You think you may have escalated just a little quickly, hence the immaturity

You were instantly being condescending and judgmental in the first post you made, implying that I was acting "cool."

That itself was incredibly blinkered and immature.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:48AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You were instantly being condescending and judgmental in the first post you made, implying that I was acting "cool."

That itself was incredibly blinkered and immature.

So, rolleyees aside, why does he come across as ignorant or hipster, but I have similar views to yourself, apparently?

What aspects of irish cultrue DO you like and why? What personal reasons do you have, as in based on experiences rather that likeing something simply because it's Irish?

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:54AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, rolleyees aside, why does he come across as ignorant or hipster, but I have similar views to yourself, apparently?

What aspects of irish cultrue DO you like and why? What personal reasons do you have, as in based on experiences rather that likeing something simply because it's Irish?

Agreed, the whole argument seems a bit odd and out of place to me.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:54AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You were instantly being condescending and judgmental in the first post you made, implying that I was acting "cool."

That itself was incredibly blinkered and immature.

I was taking the piss you escalated to aggression, a strong sign of immaturity

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So, rolleyees aside, why does he come across as ignorant or hipster, but I have similar views to yourself, apparently?

I dont think we have similar views at all, Your comments come across as calmer, easier to read hence the different reaction.
Regard you being cool for me, Anything to do with LOTR is cool to me. Regarding your view on Irish Culture, I was respectfully disagreeing with you.
So from reading your posts compared to his, ye are both coming off entirely different, but If you want to be a hipster, who am I to deny you the right

beks101 · 19-07-2013 02:56AM

Well this thread has descended into a sh1tstorm.

I like the language.
It's of relevance to me and other Irish people I know.

Hated it at school, because of all the learning issues already outlined. It doesn't appear relevant in its curriculum, emphasis on age-old poems and stories, etc.

Didnt start to enjoy it until I started going to the Gaeltacht around the age of 15. Then I began to appreciate it could have a place in my life and it wasnt entirely irrelevant or dull and boring.

The more Ive learned about Irish history and culture, the more Ive travelled - within Ireland, to Gaeltacht areas, scenic beautiful rural spots which seem to be over-appreciated by tourists & under-appreciated by the rest of us - as well as outside of Ireland to the US, UK, Europe, Oz and my current home in Canada - Ive come further to discover its value.

And yes, one of those values for me is that it's handy to converse without being understood by anyone but the person I'm talking to, an advantage most people enjoy no matter what their native tongue is at some stage when they're abroad.

If you want to belittle that as "exclusionary" or dismiss me as some makey uppy "nouveau gaelgeoir" construct to diffuse the points Ive made as to how it's not necessarily a dead, useless, irrelevant language that we should all let go of, then that's your prerogative.

I'm no inherent nationalist, I'm about as patriotic as a hole in the wall, and for me, it's a unique and useful language.

I find the level of contempt on this thread, for the language and for people who enjoy it, frankly, quite odd.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:56AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I was taking the piss you escalated to aggression, a strong sign of immaturity

I dont think we have similar views at all, Your comments come across as calmer, easier to read hence the different reaction.
Regard you being cool for me, Anything to do with LOTR is cool to me. Regarding your view on Irish Culture, I was respectfully disagreeing with you.
So from reading your posts compared to his, ye are both coming off entirely different, but If you want to be a hipster, who am I to deny you the right

Trust me, I am neither hispter nor cool. I'm way too old to be concerned about that ****, beleive me!!!

Good night!

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:57AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I can guess your age bracket cause Ive taught people your age.

astonaidan wrote: »

:rolleyes: Your too cool for school brother

astonaidan wrote: »

Righteo Kiddo...
Anyways rabble rabble rabble, Im different, God Im cool, rabble rabble rabble

astonaidan wrote: »

I think my opinion of you is spot on tbh, you say yourself you are being terribly ignorant, you come across as a poser.

As for judging you, I dont judge idiots I usually ignore them, I was just trying to enlighten you to your ignorant statements , but whatever kid if you want to continue living in denial about well good for you, enjoy being the guy in the pub or sports team/poetry reading that well nobody can stand

astonaidan wrote: »

I can actually nearly guess your age by your comments, I have you at 17-19, just starting college or last year of secondary school.
Trying to come across as well clever and superior, Ive met a thousand of your type all over the world.

All seems pretty arrogant and self-superior to me...

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:57AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I was taking the piss you escalated to aggression, a strong sign of immaturity

I dont think we have similar views at all, Your comments come across as calmer, easier to read hence the different reaction.
Regard you being cool for me, Anything to do with LOTR is cool to me. Regarding your view on Irish Culture, I was respectfully disagreeing with you.
So from reading your posts compared to his, ye are both coming off entirely different, but If you want to be a hipster, who am I to deny you the right

I've been mostly calm the entire time we've talked outside of a few insults, which I've already agreed were over-the-top and shouldn't have been said, yet you still insist I'm being immature, which I find a bit disappointing.

You respectfully disagreed with Consuela, yet decided I was a disgusting idiot and went on a verbal tirade. :pac:

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:58AM

beks101 wrote: »

Well this thread has descended into a sh1tstorm

It has, hasn't it. :P Fairly insane stuff.

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 03:00AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

It has, hasn't it. :P Fairly insane stuff.

I tried turning it around with a big long essay, but it didn't work.

Moving on, blame education and attitude for a disliking of the rish language.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 03:01AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I've been mostly calm the entire time we've talked outside of a few insults, which I've already agreed were over-the-top and shouldn't have been said, yet you still insist I'm being immature, which I find a bit disappointing.

You respectfully disagreed with Consuela, yet decided I was a disgusting idiot and went on a verbal tirade. :pac:

The first thing you said to me was that I was Disgusting, it was only after this I called you hipster and Immature, if thats you calm, christ I wouldnt like to see you agitated.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 03:02AM

astonaidan wrote: »

The first thing you said to me was that I was Disgusting, it was only after this I called you hipster and Immature, if thats you calm, christ I wouldnt like to see you agitated.

I've already apologized for my insults, it's not on me if you ignore them and continue to post drivel.

I'm an incredibly calm person most of the time tbh.

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 03:02AM

beks101 wrote: »

And yes, one of those values for me is that it's handy to converse without being understood by anyone but the person I'm talking to, an advantage most people enjoy no matter what their native tongue is at some stage when they're abroad.

One of my Polish friends made that point when we somehow got on to speaking Irish. He can't understand why we don't use it for the same purpose they speak in Polish, even though they're fluent in English. He said that most of their conversations in Polish are about people around them! It's a much underused part of Irish

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 03:05AM

astonaidan wrote: »

The first thing you said to me was that I was Disgusting, it was only after this I called you hipster and Immature, if thats you calm, christ I wouldnt like to see you agitated.

I believe you'll find he said that people like you, not you in particular, disgust him. You made an indirect comment about an ilk a direct comment about a person. That was your own doing. Then you reacted with a "high horse" attitude, and it all escalated from there, on both sides. Both of ye made incorrect assumptions.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 03:10AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I've already apologized for my insults, it's not on me if you ignore them and continue to post drivel.

I'm an incredibly calm person most of the time tbh.

You apologized, but yet at the same time you say I called you disgusting which isnt exactly accurate you were the first to use that word, I said its a disgusting trait, you said disgusting person.
A trait doesnt define who you are.
I really think weve gone full circle with this and its gone so far off topic.

To answer original question, most people cant speak Irish because its taught terribly in secondary school, with most peoples Irish peaking in primary

Fiery biscuits · 19-07-2013 03:10AM

I believe that Irish has been taught wrong for a long time and this is where the problem lies. The spoken aspect of the language should come first and there should be very little emphasis on writing and reading. This change has started in primary school already to an extent.

I don't believe Irish should be scrapped, it's our national language and it forms part of our identity. I can understand why many people many have a dislike for it and I feel this is mainly because of how it was taught to them ie rammed down their throats. If it is given a new lease of life whereby people can learn it so they can use it practically as a spoken language, I think people of the next generation will have a more positive feeling towards it. In saying this I do believe that Irish should not be compulsory after the junior certificate.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 03:12AM

astonaidan wrote: »

You apologized, but yet at the same time you say I called you disgusting which isnt exactly accurate you were the first to use that word, I said its a disgusting trait, you said disgusting person.
A trait doesnt define who you are.
I really think weve gone full circle with this and its gone so far off topic.

To answer original question, most people cant speak Irish because its taught terribly in secondary school, with most peoples Irish peaking in primary

You, on multiple occasions, assumed things about me and regarded yourself as being "spot on." Despite never speaking to me beforehand or meeting me in person.

You even continue to state that I don't "understand" culture. Stop parroting that to me, please.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 03:19AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You, on multiple occasions, assumed things about me and regarded yourself as being "spot on." Despite never speaking to me beforehand or meeting me in person.

You even continue to state that I don't "understand" culture. Stop parroting that to me, please.

Dude I said it to you in a PM cause I didnt think it was relevant here, you however did for some reason, kinda showing you immaturity again.
You realise its not that hard to get a read on someones personality, same way you know you wont get on with some when you meet them in person.
Infact its usually easier to see the real person when they have a laptop to hide behind

Corvo Attano · 19-07-2013 03:19AM

I blame primary school education.

By the end of primary I could barely recite the Our Father in Irish and sure as **** I couldnt make a proper sentence but I could tell you all about St Bridgets blanket or Jesus in the temple.

It is a farce how its taught in primary and being as hard as it is to be hit with it in second level is just too much and as a result most people say forget it.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 03:21AM

astonaidan wrote: »

Dude I said it to you in a PM cause I didnt think it was relevant here, you however did for some reason, kinda showing you immaturity again.
You realise its not that hard to get a read on someones personality, same way you know you wont get on with some when you meet them in person.
Infact its usually easier to see the real person when they have a laptop to hide behind

Oh, but it is so very difficult to get a read on my personality. If I met you in person I'd have the exact same reaction as I did, you however probably wouldn't have kept insulting me after I apologized.

I'm not acting tough behind a screen or anything.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 03:23AM

_rebelkid wrote: »

I believe you'll find he said that people like you, not you in particular, disgust him. You made an indirect comment about an ilk a direct comment about a person. That was your own doing. Then you reacted with a "high horse" attitude, and it all escalated from there, on both sides. Both of ye made incorrect assumptions.

I think you find saying people like me is exactly the same thing. If I went up to a girl and said people are you are disgusting, then followed it up with not you but like you.
I think you will find he escalated I followed

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 03:24AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I think you find saying people like me is exactly the same thing. If I went up to a girl and said people are you are disgusting, then followed it up with not you but like you.
I think you will find he escalated I followed

I meant when people judge me based off of a single comment regarding opinion on Irish music, television, language and sports, it disgusts me. I'm sure if we met in person we'd have little problems. I get on well with most everybody.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 03:27AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I meant when people judge me based off of a single comment regarding opinion on Irish music, television, language and sports, it disgusts me. I'm sure if we met in person we'd have little problems. I get on well with most everybody.

Surprisingly enough so do I

onemorechance · 19-07-2013 03:39AM

3.5 hours and 72 posts later! :pac:

Corvo Attano · 19-07-2013 03:43AM

An argument reaching a civil and friendly end on the internet? Why this is simple impossible!

Ruu · 19-07-2013 03:53AM

Ah Pol agus a chairde! Good times were had.

onemorechance · 19-07-2013 04:07AM

Bhí argóint ag Aodán agus Michael ar scoil inniu! Bhí an múinteoir ina chodladh agus choinnigh siad suas an argóint ar feadh trí uair go leith! :pac: Ach sa deireadh, rinne siad cairdeas arís!

babi-hrse · 19-07-2013 04:34AM

for me it was it even too difficult to pronounce a phrase!
i could be told it and i wouldnt be able to repeat it back or write it down as it sounds nothing like it would look written phonetically
and if you did have it written down for you you wouldnt be able to pronounce it! any word over five letters started rapidly getting more difficult.
imagine trying to invoke a memory of somebody saying a series of noises that you are unable to spell or record on paper is it any wonder why people give up after primary level!
in my mind it felt like a constantly shifting enigmatic lexicon. rarely could you use the same phrase in multiple instances on event/person/noun/time
and the resulting change would render the phrase unrecognisable from the previous.

Garzard · 19-07-2013 05:25AM

Fiery biscuits wrote: »

I believe that Irish has been taught wrong for a long time and this is where the problem lies. The spoken aspect of the language should come first and there should be very little emphasis on writing and reading. This change has started in primary school already to an extent.

I agree with you there but then again, I think most people will only make an effort at it to pass the exam in the end, not to speak it after leaving school. Unless the method of teaching it is completely overhauled (which should have been done decades ago) and made into a more lively subject, I can only see Irish declining further and further. It has to be removed as a compulsory subject as well, which might make people appreciate it a lot more.

I don't believe Irish should be scrapped, it's our national language and it forms part of our identity. I can understand why many people many have a dislike for it and I feel this is mainly because of how it was taught to them ie rammed down their throats. If it is given a new lease of life whereby people can learn it so they can use it practically as a spoken language, I think people of the next generation will have a more positive feeling towards it. In saying this I do believe that Irish should not be compulsory after the junior certificate.

I hate to say this but if it was up to me I'd scrap it and take out of our education system completely or maybe make it into an extracurricular activity or something. At the very least I'd remove it as compulsory subject. I'd let people learn it using their own time and money. Then cut funding towards it and invest that saved cash in IT and more technical subjects and such. After all, that's where the country is heading and that's what going to provide most of our future jobs. I think we can all agree that with the state the country's in, we have to be more practical rather that traditional. Not just Irish, but the whole education system in Ireland could do with an overhauling.

Galwayguy35 · 19-07-2013 05:26AM

I've ofton wondered how did we as a people lose the ability to speak Irish as our first language during the time the English ruled Ireland?

We weren't the only country they colonized but the others still kept their language and learned to speak English as well.

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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