Why can nobody speak Irish?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:00AM

astonaidan wrote: »

Where did you get that out of my comment,
Like for example, Im a catholic but I dont go to mass, but it still forms a huge part of my life.
Ive used GAA as an example. I dont play it so it doesnt affect me that way, but like I went up to Dublin for the leinster final.
I play soccer in a part of Ireland where we speak Irish, so I speak it, but like I speak German, French, Spanish and English, does this mean Im blindly following the rules.

The main point I was trying to make in my comments is that its impossible to not partake in Irish culture, the same way its impossible for Spanish to not be Spanish, French be French etc.
Where you grow up shapes you as a person, no matter how hipster you try be, you will always be an Irish hipster, culture shapes you as a person saying you dont like Irish culture and its given you nothing usually shows how naive you are to other cultures, grass greener on the other side sort of mentality.

In the post I replied to, you said that "not caring about your culture is a disgusting trait". You implied that those who did not care were ignorant.

I don't like most aspects of irish culture. They don't appeal to me. I don't like listening to Irish music, the irish langauge, playing GAA sports and so on. I've tried them all, they don't appeal. I prefer rock music, soccer and handball and I've no massive leanings towards langauges, but if pushed, I think Frnech and Elvish sound very melodic.

The Irish culture may have shaped some aspect of my life, but that doesn't mean it made me a better person. Personally, I found a lot of aspects of it to be dull, conservative and limiting.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:01AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In the post I replied to, you said that "not caring about your culture is a disgusting trait". You implied that those who did not care were ignorant.

I don't like most aspects of irish culture. They don't appeal to me. I don't like listening to Irish music, the irish langauge, playing GAA sports and so on. I've tried them all, they don't appeal. I prefer rock music, soccer and handball and I've no massive leanings towards langauges, but if pushed, I think Frnech and Elvish sound very melodic.

The Irish culture may have shaped some aspect of my life, but that doesn't mean it made me a better person. Personalyl, I found it to be conservative and limiting.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Be prepared to be labeled a poser, hipster and idiot however. :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:04AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Be prepared to be labeled a poser, hipster and idiot however. :pac:

He wouldn't dare.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:11AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I'm not trying to be hipster or different in any way. :pac: I'm much the same as most people my age. I don't have an active interest in Irish culture.... Pretty much like most of the people I've met. Of course my culture shaped me as a person, I never stated that it didn't.

I'm not saying I dislike Irish culture, either. I'm just not interested in it. Grass is greener on the other side? What are you talking about? You come off as incredibly hostile and judgmental, instantly labeling me as something which I actually am not because of a single comment I made which happens to disagree with your views. Not everybody is going to love the country they live in, or enjoy the culture, either.

I can actually nearly guess your age by your comments, I have you at 17-19, just starting college or last year of secondary school.
Trying to come across as well clever and superior, Ive met a thousand of your type all over the world.
Saying you have no active interest in Irish culture is a epically hipster statement and really shows naivety to whats actually happening around you.
Grass greener on the other side: Life will be great when I can drive, when I get into Uni, when I get to Australia etc. etc. etc.

Aggresive Brah not at all, have a look through my comments and you will see Im far from it, your first comment and following comments scream hipster so yeah Im going to stand by them, well either that or seriously misinformed. At least with hipster you can pretend to know whats going on.

Off course not everyones going to love there country, but not loving your culture is a totally different thing, I never mentioned anything about living in Ireland.
Id rather live in Sydney or Paris myself but would I rather be Australian with there mannerism or french, God Hell No!!

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:16AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I can actually nearly guess your age by your comments, I have you at 17-19, just starting college or last year of secondary school.

You are correct, though I suspect you were just sifting through my posts seeing as you visited my profile earlier on.

Trying to come across as well clever and superior, Ive met a thousand of your type all over the world.

I'm not trying to come across as clever or superior, I made harsh comments earlier on because you had offended me, and I sent you a PM to apologize if I had offended you and to move on, because I'm not in an argumentative mood.

Saying you have no active interest in Irish culture is a epically hipster statement and really shows naivety to whats actually happening around you.

So you're saying I should reform my own active opinions and interests because it's apparently "hipster?" How am I being hipster? I think you're mistaking important current events such as the political and social climate etc etc. As culture.

Grass greener on the other side: Life will be great when I can drive, when I get into Uni, when I get to Australia etc. etc. etc.

I don't particularly want to move to Australia or really change my living arrangements. I'm content where I am, for the most part.

Aggresive Brah not at all, have a look through my comments and you will see Im far from it, your first comment and following comments scream hipster so yeah Im going to stand by them, well either that or seriously misinformed. At least with hipster you can pretend to know whats going on.

Again, I'm not a hipster at all but if it makes you happy to fervently make assumptions about me then go ahead, it doesn't really bother me to be honest.

Off course not everyones going to love there country, but not loving your culture is a totally different thing, I never mentioned anything about living in Ireland.

Ah, so I should love my culture or else I'm being ignorant and hipster. You're so, so wrong.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:20AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I can actually nearly guess your age by your comments, I have you at 17-19, just starting college or last year of secondary school.
Trying to come across as well clever and superior, Ive met a thousand of your type all over the world.
Saying you have no active interest in Irish culture is a epically hipster statement and really shows naivety to whats actually happening around you.
Grass greener on the other side: Life will be great when I can drive, when I get into Uni, when I get to Australia etc. etc. etc.

Aggresive Brah not at all, have a look through my comments and you will see Im far from it, your first comment and following comments scream hipster so yeah Im going to stand by them, well either that or seriously misinformed. At least with hipster you can pretend to know whats going on.

Off course not everyones going to love there country, but not loving your culture is a totally different thing, I never mentioned anything about living in Ireland.
Id rather live in Sydney or Paris myself but would I rather be Australian with there mannerism or french, God Hell No!!

So do you just assume everyone who likes something different is a teen hipster wannabe?

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:21AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In the post I replied to, you said that "not caring about your culture is a disgusting trait". You implied that those who did not care were ignorant.

I don't like most aspects of irish culture. They don't appeal to me. I don't like listening to Irish music, the irish langauge, playing GAA sports and so on. I've tried them all, they don't appeal. I prefer rock music, soccer and handball and I've no massive leanings towards langauges, but if pushed, I think Frnech and Elvish sound very melodic.

The Irish culture may have shaped some aspect of my life, but that doesn't mean it made me a better person. Personally, I found a lot of aspects of it to be dull, conservative and limiting.

But youve selected just a small selection of Irish culture. Like Irish music does nothing for me either and as I said GAA is a sport Ive never actually played, Im a rugby and soccer guy.
Because you mentioned Elvish your officially in my cool book though

You see I find the Irish culture is in fact the opposite to dull, conservative and limiting.
Have you ever wondered why we are so popular all over the world

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:21AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... I don't like listening to Irish music, the irish langauge, playing GAA sports and so on. I've tried them all, they don't appeal. I prefer rock music, soccer and handball and I've no massive leanings towards langauges...

Handball tournaments in Ireland are run by the GAA, and are considered a sport by the GAA.

Unless you mean Olympic Handball, which is very different indeed.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:21AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So do you just assume everyone who likes something different is a teen hipster wannabe?

He does, pretty much. Either go along and love Irish culture or you're being a hipster. I'm actually laughing at the ignorance displayed in this thread.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:23AM

astonaidan wrote: »

But youve selected just a small selection of Irish culture. Like Irish music does nothing for me either and as I said GAA is a sport Ive never actually played, Im a rugby and soccer guy.
Because you mentioned Elvish your officially in my cool book though
You see I find the Irish culture is in fact the opposite to dull, conservative and limiting.
Have you ever wondered why we are so popular all over the world

But, I have different opinions than you. No need to start insulting me over it. The culture he mentioned is what I primarily dislike, what other sections of Irish culture should I love to earn your approval?

Do you attack people in real life for showing different interests?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:24AM

astonaidan wrote: »

But youve selected just a small selection of Irish culture. Like Irish music does nothing for me either and as I said GAA is a sport Ive never actually played, Im a rugby and soccer guy.
Because you mentioned Elvish your officially in my cool book though
You see I find the Irish culture is in fact the opposite to dull, conservative and limiting.
Have you ever wondered why we are so popular all over the world

So, why does this make one acceptable, but the other an ignorant hipster?

_rebelkid wrote: »

Handball tournaments in Ireland are run by the GAA, and are considered a sport by the GAA.

Unless you mean Olympic Handball, which is very different indeed.

I do. I dont know much about the irish kind.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:27AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You are correct, though I suspect you were just sifting through my posts seeing as you visited my profile earlier on.

I'm not trying to come across as clever or superior, I made harsh comments earlier on because you had offended me, and I sent you a PM to apologize if I had offended you and to move on, because I'm not in an argumentative mood.

So you're saying I should reform my own active opinions and interests because it's apparently "hipster?" How am I being hipster? I think you're mistaking important current events such as the political and social climate etc etc. As culture.

I don't particularly want to move to Australia or really change my living arrangements. I'm content where I am, for the most part.

Again, I'm not a hipster at all but if it makes you happy to fervently make assumptions about me then go ahead, it doesn't really bother me to be honest.

Ah, so I should love my culture or else I'm being ignorant and hipster. You're so, so wrong.

I looked at your profile after you sent me a message, my post was posted before I read your PM, I really think you need to check what culture is my friend.
I wasnt referring to you moving to Australia,I was using it as a reference to people whos personality comes across similar to yours. Think something else is better from an outside view.
Once again I dont think you understand culture

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:30AM

astonaidan wrote: »

I looked at your profile after you sent me a message, my post was posted before I read your PM, I really think you need to check what culture is my friend.
I wasnt referring to you moving to Australia,I was using it as a reference to people whos personality comes across similar to yours. Think something else is better from an outside view.
Once again I dont think you understand culture

I saw you had checked my profile before I even sent the PM.

Seems astounding how you'd guess my exact age bracket doesn't it given I'm a hipster who shows different opinions to everybody else.

But that's irrelevant.

You know literally nothing about my personality or anything about me, as I've said already you're sitting there telling me how I act and what I am based off of me not being interested in Irish culture. Do you not realize you are being overly hostile and judgmental towards me?

April O Neill · 19-07-2013 02:31AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Thirdly, as a nation, we suck at all languages.
It's not just irish, it's french/german etc. Why this is i couldn't tell you.

We don't suck at them. I had no problems learning French the way I had with Irish. I'm not fluent in French, but I'd be confident in my ability to become fluent if I wanted or needed to. Not so Irish. Have no affinity for it whatsoever.

jill_valentine wrote: »

It's not particularly attractive to the ear either, IMHO. So really, personally, I had no incentive to learn it at all.

This. So very much.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:32AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

I saw you had checked my profile before I even sent the PM. Seems astounding how you'd guess my exact age bracket doesn't it given I'm a hipster who shows different opinions to everybody else. But that's irrelevant.

You know literally nothing about my personality or anything about me, as I've said already you're sitting there telling me how I act and what I am based off of me not being interested in Irish culture. Do you not realize you are being overly hostile and judgmental towards me?

You did yeah :pac:, I can guess your age bracket cause Ive taught people your age.
Not really Im basing everything on your comments

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:35AM

I did honours Irish for the LC. The moment I walked out of the exam hall, I forgot every single word I knew.

The issue with learning Irish is how it's taught. Irish is taught like no other foreign language.

I did German in school, and I can hold a conversation with German speakers without any issue. In 6 years, I could speak conversational German. In 13 years, I couldn't do the same in Irish.

And that is because of teaching methods. German, French, Spanish etc, are taught from a conversational point of view:
- How to greet
- How to form a sentence
- Lists of Proper nouns
- Lists of irregular verbs
- Case and tense formation
- Simple and Complex Grammatical formations

Irish, in my experience, is taught very differently:
- Poems
- Reading
- History
- Basic grammar
- Generalistic overviews of areas of converstation; the weather, home, people, pets etc.

It's only very late that students are taught how to hold conversation, usually just before the Oral exams, or in 5th year for Mock Orals. How to speak Irish is very low down on the scale of importance in education curriculums.

Every Irish teacher I had in 2nd level felt the same. They don't want to be teaching Prose and Poetry as much as students want to trudge through it. That is not to say it isn't important; looking at heritage and knowing our national identity and literature is important, but it would be much better if students could actually value the language as the language it is, before they value its literature.

I would love to be able to speak Irish, but the way I grew up, and the attitude towards Irish in the current teaching system that we have, in my case anyway, prevents you from doing that.

And like most people will say, the best way to learn a language is to speak it.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:36AM

astonaidan wrote: »

You did yeah :pac:, I can guess your age bracket cause Ive taught people your age.
Not really Im basing everything on your comments

You're judging my personality and insulting me based on comments I made about Irish culture. :pac: You're spouting off with vitriol-filled posts over and over again because I disagree with you about the culture of our country.

I've somehow hit a nerve with you by that original comment.

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:36AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I do. I dont know much about the irish kind.

Ever hit a ball off a wall with your hand? You've played Irish handball

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:38AM

_rebelkid wrote: »

I did honours Irish for the LC. The moment I walked out of the exam hall, I forgot every single word I knew.

The issue with learning Irish is how it's taught. Irish is taught like no other foreign language.

I did German in school, and I can hold a conversation with German speakers without any issue. In 6 years, I could speak conversational German. In 13 years, I couldn't do the same in Irish.

And that is because of teaching methods. German, French, Spanish etc, are taught from a conversational point of view:
- How to greet
- How to form a sentence
- Lists of Proper nouns
- Lists of irregular verbs
- Case and tense formation
- Simple and Complex Grammatical formations

Irish, in my experience, is taught very differently:
- Poems
- Reading
- History
- Basic grammar
- Generalistic overviews of areas of converstation; the weather, home, people, pets etc.

It's only very late that students are taught how to hold conversation, usually just before the Oral exams, or in 5th year for Mock Orals. How to speak Irish is very low down on the scale of importance in education curriculums.

Every Irish teacher I had in 2nd level felt the same. They don't want to be teaching Prose and Poetry as much as students want to trudge through it. That is not to say it isn't important; looking at heritage and knowing our national identity and literature is important, but it would be much better if students could actually value the language as the language it is, before they value its literature.

I would love to be able to speak Irish, but the way I grew up, and the attitude towards Irish in the current teaching system that we have, in my case anyway, prevents you from doing that.

And like most people will say, the best way to learn a language is to speak it.

This is the very reason Ive been saying for years why we have such a little speaking population of Irish speakers, but so much french, spanish and german speakers.
I actually dont think ive ever had a conversation about poetry in Irish in my whole life and I hope it continues

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:39AM

_rebelkid wrote: »

I did honours Irish for the LC. The moment I walked out of the exam hall, I forgot every single word I knew.

The issue with learning Irish is how it's taught. Irish is taught like no other foreign language.

I did German in school, and I can hold a conversation with German speakers without any issue. In 6 years, I could speak conversational German. In 13 years, I couldn't do the same in Irish.

And that is because of teaching methods. German, French, Spanish etc, are taught from a conversational point of view:
- How to greet
- How to form a sentence
- Lists of Proper nouns
- Lists of irregular verbs
- Case and tense formation
- Simple and Complex Grammatical formations

Irish, in my experience, is taught very differently:
- Poems
- Reading
- History
- Basic grammar
- Generalistic overviews of areas of converstation; the weather, home, people, pets etc.

It's only very late that students are taught how to hold conversation, usually just before the Oral exams, or in 5th year for Mock Orals. How to speak Irish is very low down on the scale of importance in education curriculums.

Every Irish teacher I had in 2nd level felt the same. They don't want to be teaching Prose and Poetry as much as students want to trudge through it. That is not to say it isn't important; looking at heritage and knowing our national identity and literature is important, but it would be much better if students could actually value the language as the language it is, before they value its literature.

I would love to be able to speak Irish, but the way I grew up, and the attitude towards Irish in the current teaching system that we have, in my case anyway, prevents you from doing that.

And like most people will say, the best way to learn a language is to speak it.

Agreed. You need to be placed in an environment where you consistently speak the actual language rather than rote learn it for 39 minutes a day if you want to get anyway fluent in it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:40AM

_rebelkid wrote: »

Ever hit a ball off a wall with your hand? You've played Irish handball

I;ve hit them with racquets and kicked quiet a few, does that count?

con1421 · 19-07-2013 02:40AM

English is too popular of a language and that's the reason why Irish has declined. There is very little use for the language anymore as we are living in a multi cultured society with those who have emigrated to Ireland during the celtic tiger. It's terrible what has happened and in a few generations the language will be forgotten. But it's happening everywhere. Wouldn't it be better if the whole world just spoke 1 language?

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:40AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

You're judging my personality and insulting me based on comments I made about Irish culture. :pac: You're spouting off with vitriol-filled posts over and over again because I disagree with you about the culture of our country.

I've somehow hit a nerve with you by that original comment.

Your coming across as immature thats what Im basing your personality on, I dont think you understand culture

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:41AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I;ve hit them with racquets and kicked quiet a few, does that count?

Don't think so, that's racquet-ball and football. Go find a tennis ball, a wall, and slap it with your hand. Do it now!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-07-2013 02:41AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Agreed. You need to be placed in an environment where you consistently speak the actual language rather than rote learn it for 39 minutes a day if you want to get anyway fluent in it.

Not nessecarily - I mean, how much time was spent learnign German compare to learning Irish? Abotu the same I beleive. And the classromm environemtn was the same.

Simple fact is that German and French are seen as langauges, whereas Irish is a school subject.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:42AM

astonaidan wrote: »

Your coming across as immature thats what Im basing your personality on, I dont think you understand culture

How do I come across as immature? You're the one who got terribly annoyed and started throwing insults around like a child. I'm immature because I don't have an interest in Irish culture. :pac:

I do understand culture. I also asked you why you think I'm a disgusting hipster idiot because I generally dislike Irish sport, music and the language itself. You haven't replied yet.

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:42AM

con1421 wrote: »

English is too popular of a language and that's the reason why Irish has declined. There is very little use for the language anymore as we are living in a multi cultured society with those who have emigrated to Ireland during the celtic tiger. It's terrible what has happened and in a few generations the language will be forgotten. But it's happening everywhere. Wouldn't it be better if the whole world just spoke 1 language?

Majority of foreign students are exempt from compulsary Irish, only 3 out of 65 students in my year who were foreign did Irish, so it's our fault we don't use it.

MickFleetwood · 19-07-2013 02:44AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not nessecarily - I mean, how much time was spent learnign German compare to learning Irish? Abotu the same I beleive. And the classromm environemtn was the same.

Simple fact is that German and French are seen as langauges, whereas Irish is a school subject.

From what I saw people spent more time learning German in school than Irish tbh. In Irish we don't actually speak the language, usually just write it down whereas in German and French teachers only spoke the language to others. My Irish teacher speaks English during class.

I retract my statement about it being the only way to become fluent, but it's a superior method IMO.

_rebelkid · 19-07-2013 02:45AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not nessecarily - I mean, how much time was spent learnign German compare to learning Irish? Abotu the same I beleive. And the classromm environemtn was the same.

Simple fact is that German and French are seen as langauges, whereas Irish is a school subject.

Not really. The location was the same, the environment was much different. I can speak German because I chose to do it. I went to German class everyday because I wanted to learn German.

You are right about the view on each subject. Languages are something you choose, Irish is something you do.

astonaidan · 19-07-2013 02:46AM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

How do I come across as immature? You're the one who got terribly annoyed and started throwing insults around like a child. I'm immature because I don't have an interest in Irish culture. :pac:

I do understand culture. I also asked you why you think I'm a disgusting hipster idiot because I generally dislike Irish sport, music and the language itself. You haven't replied yet.

Dude I did a :rolleyes:, and you said people like me disgust you.
You think you may have escalated just a little quickly, hence the immaturity

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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