Why can nobody speak Irish?

Sierra 117 · 18-07-2013 09:40PM

Il Giornale wrote: »

Culture is important, and the Irish language is part of our culture.

It's not part of our culture. The majority don't speak it, or use it in any way in their daily lives. So, not part of our culture.

18-07-2013 09:56PM

Sierra 117 wrote: »

It's not part of our culture. The majority don't speak it, or use it in any way in their daily lives. So, not part of our culture.

I agree, but telling an Irish language enthusiast that it's not part of your culture is a bit like telling a fundamentalist Christian that you don't believe in God and that 'he' plays no part in your life.

"The Irish language is part of your culture, because I SAY SO!!
"Jesus loves you, 'cause I SAY SO!!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-07-2013 09:56PM

Il Giornale wrote: »

Learning another language expands your mind and keeps it from atrophying. Also the world would be a less interesting place if all "useless" languages died off. Culture is important, and the Irish language is part of our culture.

it might be apart of your culture, so you go learn it.

For a lot of people, that simply is not the case, so they don't learn it. Simples.

Il Giornale · 18-07-2013 10:00PM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Yes, learning a language does expand your mind. As does an unending amount of other things that I enjoy doing and learning about. It's still highly uninteresting and tedious to me, not to mention it has no practical use; so I don't try to learn it. Stating that it expands your mind does not necessarily put it above the mounds of other activities/subjects that do the same thing. If I wanted to learn a language, it would be something more along the lines of French, German, Spanish, Italian, etc. As that actually allows me to communicate with a large amount of other people. Irish doesn't do this.

As I've stated before, Irish will not "die out" as it's already been recorded through various texts and books. The information is there to be absorbed, and to think otherwise would be naive. Those who have an active interest in it could then seek out the available info and learn the language. Those who do not wish to learn it could then choose not to, also. It's a pure win-win situation, everybody is satisfied and content.

So long as they teach it properly to those who want to learn it that would make me happy.

Il Giornale · 18-07-2013 10:01PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

it might be apart of your culture, so you go learn it.

For a lot of people, that simply is not the case, so they don't learn it. Simples.

It's the department of education's decision what is taught. If they only taught what peopl wanted to learn we'd be living in the Stone Age.

MickFleetwood · 18-07-2013 10:03PM

Il Giornale wrote: »

So long as they teach it properly to those who want to learn it that would make me happy.

Well, they don't, they never have, and in all likelihood never will. So I suppose you're fairly annoyed with the teaching of Irish at the moment, aren't you?

MickFleetwood · 18-07-2013 10:05PM

Il Giornale wrote: »

It's the department of education's decision what is taught. If they only taught what peopl wanted to learn we'd be living in the Stone Age.

Absolutely not true at all. Just because the Department make a decision doesn't mean you should blindly accept it without holding your own opinion on the matter.

It's not about teaching people what they want to learn or not, it's about giving them an objective education; which is why they can choose to learn French and German, or Chemistry and Biology, etc. Whereas subjects such as Maths and English are deemed essential, for obvious reasons.

Make Irish optional and everything is solved. Irish enthusiasts can learn it if it pleases them, those who don't care about it don't have to. As I've already said it's a win-win.

astonaidan · 18-07-2013 10:07PM

I speak Irish and I dont like you telling people I cant :mad:

davidholla · 18-07-2013 10:08PM

A1 hons leaving cert baby, simple with google translate.

MickFleetwood · 18-07-2013 10:09PM

Also, can somebody actually explain why I should care about Irish culture, exactly? It means very little to me to be honest.

ViveLaVie · 18-07-2013 10:13PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Have to disagree with you here - you need more than basic grammar and limited practical examples before you move into stories and poetry. I don't think following the French or German examples is a good idea either: how many fluent French and German speakers does the system produce?

The system isn't designed to produce fluent French and German speakers. The system aims to educate students to a certain degree in a foreign language which is actually quite low and nowhere near being remotely fluent.

ViveLaVie · 18-07-2013 10:13PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Have to disagree with you here - you need more than basic grammar and limited practical examples before you move into stories and poetry. I don't think following the French or German examples is a good idea either: how many fluent French and German speakers does the system produce?

The system isn't designed to produce fluent French and German speakers. The system aims to educate students to a certain degree in a foreign language which is actually quite low and nowhere near being remotely fluent.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-07-2013 10:15PM

Il Giornale wrote: »

It's the department of education's decision what is taught. If they only taught what peopl wanted to learn we'd be living in the Stone Age.

"If they only taught what peopel want to learn, we'd be livign in the stone age"?? Eh....?? How the **** do you get that comparison....?

The Department of Education should be educating people - and giving said people the respect to choose on what to learn - not reviving a language. Forcing it on people is more akin to backward progress.

18-07-2013 10:17PM

astonaidan wrote: »

I speak Irish and I dont like you telling peole I cant :mad:

Who's 'Peole' and why do you not like people telling him/her that you can't speak Irish, I can't speak it either and I'm not ashamed, don't be embarrassed, to hell with Peole.
Good luck to you!

beks101 · 18-07-2013 10:19PM

Garzard wrote: »

For me personally it was because it has no relevance in this day and age

It has huge relevance and is something of a delight if you live abroad.
I use it regularly with the few Irish friends who can converse fairly comfortably in it, it works nicely as a "secret language" of sorts and confuses the hell out of Canadians.

It makes me sad that I have so few Irish friends I can speak to in Irish though.
It's a wonderful language.

MickFleetwood · 18-07-2013 10:22PM

beks101 wrote: »

It has huge relevance and is something of a delight if you live abroad.
I use it regularly with the few Irish friends who can converse fairly comfortably in it, it works nicely as a "secret language" of sorts and confuses the hell out of Canadians.

It makes me sad that I have so few Irish friends I can speak to in Irish though.
It's a wonderful language.

So because you speak some Irish with a few people makes it of huge relevance?

beks101 · 18-07-2013 10:33PM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

So because you speak some Irish with a few people makes it of huge relevance?

Not huge, but it doesn't have "no relevance"

shruikan2553 · 18-07-2013 10:34PM

beks101 wrote: »

It has huge relevance and is something of a delight if you live abroad.
I use it regularly with the few Irish friends who can converse fairly comfortably in it, it works nicely as a "secret language" of sorts and confuses the hell out of Canadians.

It makes me sad that I have so few Irish friends I can speak to in Irish though.
It's a wonderful language.

So it is good if you live in another country and want to talk to other Irish people without others knowing what you say?

Seems like a lot of work for very little.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-07-2013 10:35PM

beks101 wrote: »

Not huge, but it doesn't have "no relevance"

It's personal relevance. Fair enough, but hardly a universal trait. I live in Germany and it's even less relevant to me than when I lived in Ireland.

beks101 · 18-07-2013 10:39PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's personal relevance. Fair enough, but hardly a universal trait. I live in Germany and it's even less relevant to me than when I lived in Ireland.

Not uncommon here tbh.

18-07-2013 10:40PM

beks101 wrote: »

It has huge relevance and is something of a delight if you live abroad.
I use it regularly with the few Irish friends who can converse fairly comfortably in it, it works nicely as a "secret language" of sorts and confuses the hell out of Canadians.

It makes me sad that I have so few Irish friends I can speak to in Irish though.
It's a wonderful language.

It also works as a secret language in Dublin........in fact almost anywhere in Ireland or the world.
It must be great when only a select few know what you're talking about, have you tried the ould Latin?, it's not quite as obscure as 'Irish', but it's another 'secret' language favoured by priests, teachers, politicians and those in authority.

beks101 · 18-07-2013 10:41PM

9959 wrote: »

It also works as a secret language in Dublin........in fact almost anywhere in Ireland or the world.
It must be great when only a select few know what you're talking about, have you tried the ould Latin?, it's not quite as obscure as 'Irish', but it's another 'secret' language favoured by priests, teachers, politicians and those in authority.

and Cork, and London, and kilkenny

And would you say Latin is largely irrelevant these days?

18-07-2013 10:45PM

beks101 wrote: »

And would you say Latin is largely irrelevant these days?

As a spoken language?

beks101 · 18-07-2013 10:48PM

9959 wrote: »

It also works as a secret language in Dublin........in fact almost anywhere in Ireland or the world.

Ever been to Connemara?
Aran Islands?
Baile na nGall in Kerry?
Gaeltacht areas of Donegal?

MickFleetwood · 18-07-2013 10:53PM

beks101 wrote: »

Ever been to Connemara?
Aran Islands?
Baile na nGall in Kerry?
Gaeltacht areas of Donegal?

He said most of Ireland, deliberately leaving out the few places where they may speak it.

By the way, I've been to Baile na nGall in Kerry and they rarely spoke Irish. I heard one person speak the language, and that was in a single shop. They otherwise exclusively spoke English.

Cannot comment on the rest.

LordSutch · 18-07-2013 10:57PM

The last time I heard people speaking Irish was a father & son on the 46a, circa 1998. It took me by surprise, as I had never heard Irish been spoken outside the classroom before or since. (apart from the odd cupla focal) which pops up from time in Dublin & along the East coast.

Wibbs · 18-07-2013 11:07PM

beks101 wrote: »

It has huge relevance and is something of a delight if you live abroad.
I use it regularly with the few Irish friends who can converse fairly comfortably in it, it works nicely as a "secret language" of sorts and confuses the hell out of Canadians.

Ah yes this is a common reason given. Exclusion, really a good way to foster a tongue? Not.

Though others have had different experiences when this has cropped up as a thread subject before, I found the born to the Irish language folks who were actually fluent, a lot less likely to run this exclusion stuff on me a a non speaker. The nouveau Gaelgoiri on the other hand were often at some pains to exclude. I've been in quite the few places on this planet and among the worst to not make an effort to include were the nouveau Gaelgoiri, made so much worse as an example of bad manners, because they were all primary english speakers.

I've seen this on similar threads to this. The ones who cry west brit and all that ballsology are far more common than those who don't. One of the hopes I had for the language was a user by the name of doilflnep or somesuch(damn my dyslexia!:). Sadly I think he closed his account). He loved it and wanted to share it as a living thing and wasn't exclusionary in the least. That's the way forward IMH.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-07-2013 11:20PM

beks101 wrote: »

Not uncommon here tbh.

... but hardly "of huge relevance"?

Il Giornale · 18-07-2013 11:22PM

MickFleetwood wrote: »

Well, they don't, they never have, and in all likelihood never will. So I suppose you're fairly annoyed with the teaching of Irish at the moment, aren't you?

I'm annoyed at how all languages are taught in school, but especially Irish.

Il Giornale · 18-07-2013 11:25PM

ViveLaVie wrote: »

The system isn't designed to produce fluent French and German speakers. The system aims to educate students to a certain degree in a foreign language which is actually quite low and nowhere near being remotely fluent.

That's the problem, the systems aims are pathetic and feeble. It shouldn't take any longer than a year to become at least semi fluent with several classes per week.

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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