Magdalene survivors call on Catholics to boycott mass this weekend

renegademaster · 18-07-2013 04:58PM #1

they're dead right in my view and if this doesn't work maybe concerned citizens should occupy all churches and mic check each time the priest tries to say mass. make it impossible for mass to take place and they'll get the picture very quickly!!

http://www.thejournal.ie/magdalenes-boycott-mass-protest-998894-Jul2013/

SURVIVORS OF THE Magdalene laundries are calling on Catholics to boycott mass this weekend over the refusal of four religious orders to pay financial compensation to the women.
The group Magdalene Survivors Together asked people to stand with them and to withhold donations to local churches as a show of solidarity.
A spokesperson for the group said it was disappointed that the nuns are not contributing financially to a fund set up to provide compensation. The four orders have instead said that they will provide access to their records to allow for claims to be processed, and will continue to provide accommodation for the women who remain in their care.
“We want people to make it clear to the [Catholic] Church that people are not happy with how the women are being treated by the four religious orders who ran Magdalene laundries,” said Steven O’Riordan.
“We need the help and support from the public because it is clear that the Irish Government is totally out of their depth.”
The Taoiseach and Minister for Justice have said that the four religious orders do not legally have give money to the fund set up to compensate survivors of the institutions. However Alan Shatter has said he believes that the four orders have a moral and ethical obligation to contribute.
The four orders involves are the Good Shepherd Sisters, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, the Sisters of Mercy and the Sisters of Charity.
One survivor said it would be a “simple but powerful way” of sending a message to the four congregations.
“Why can’t they do the right thing? Why do they want to make us suffer like this?” asked Marina Gambold. “They made us suffer behind closed doors may years ago and now they are doing it in public that is shocking, disappointing and disgusting.”

Cody Pomeray · 18-07-2013 05:04PM

I think it would be useful to hear the religious side of the story here.

Apparently, what they are saying in private, to the media, is that they are already saving the state a large amount of money by looking after women who want to remain in their care. They also feel they are being made to be scapegoats by (i) the Government and (ii) families of the 'unwanted' women, which is what these women were first and foremost.

The McAleese report was an uncomfortable read for anyone who prefers to jump to one-sided conclusions. The blame that lies at the feet of the religious orders is neither unqualified nor universal. I'd be slow to come down hard on the religious organizations in question without them at least giving their side of the story.

Fr_Dougal · 18-07-2013 05:05PM

You could call it...a mass protest...

suicide_circus · 18-07-2013 05:07PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You could call it...a mass protest...

Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhh

bgrizzley · 18-07-2013 05:07PM

my pleasure...

WilyCoyote · 18-07-2013 05:07PM

I's a gamble that they could lose. More to the point if they encouraged Mass goers to abstain when the plate is passed around. Asking people to go against their beliefs (weekly Mass) is a step in the wrong direction IMO and could backfire.

18-07-2013 05:08PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I

I'd be slow to come down hard on the religious organizations in question without them at least giving their side of the story.

Im my humble opinion Cody, they have had ample time to give their side across, whatever that is..

Sauve · 18-07-2013 05:10PM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I's a gamble that they could lose. More to the point if they encouraged Mass goers to abstain when the plate is passed around. Asking people to go against their beliefs (weekly Mass) is a step in the wrong direction IMO and could backfire.

How could it backfire?

Andersonisgod · 18-07-2013 05:14PM

Sauve wrote: »

How could it backfire?

They might be condemned by the God- fearing population of Ireland and then be sent to convents where they will be abused and basically be used as slave labour? Oh wait.....

KingOfFairview · 18-07-2013 05:15PM

Can't understand why the CAB isn't just taking the money.

My name is URL · 18-07-2013 05:16PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think it would be useful to hear the religious side of the story here.

Apparently, what they are saying in private, to the media, is that they are already saving the state a large amount of money by looking after women who want to remain in their care. They also feel they are being made to be scapegoats by (i) the Government and (ii) families of the 'unwanted' women, which is what these women were first and foremost.

The McAleese report was an uncomfortable read for anyone who prefers to jump to one-sided conclusions. The blame that lies at the feet of the religious orders is neither unqualified nor universal. I'd be slow to come down hard on the religious organizations in question without them at least giving their side of the story.

They should still pay something towards the compensation fund.. just to avoid looking like the scumbags they are if for no other reason.

You're right though. The state, and the citizens of the day are just as much to blame for what happened to those women as the institutions themselves are. How many women were placed into care against their will by Gardai, and with little or no recourse?

WilyCoyote · 18-07-2013 05:25PM

Sauve wrote: »

How could it backfire?

I think most Catholics will obey the teachings of their Church first ie weekly Mass. AFAIK it's deemed to be a sin if you intentionally forego this. So asking people to commit a sin to back their leverage is a little arrogant. But asking them not to contribute financially at Mass would hit the Church where it hurts and would send a strong message.
Remember, the Church are merely middlemen. You give them money, they take a cut of the action and disseminate the rest as best they see.

kowloon · 18-07-2013 05:28PM

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Can't understand why the CAB isn't just taking the money.

The church should have been held fully accountable like any other person or institution should be, but in Ireland we have a habit of bailing out the undeserving.

squod · 18-07-2013 05:31PM

Can I withhold my taxes this week too? The gubberment are determined to make people pay again for something that has little to do with them.

Sensible option would be to look into withdrawing the pensions of the politicians, judges, priests, nuns, ''Gardaí'', etc who colluded against these victims.

stoneill · 18-07-2013 05:31PM

I'll be supporting, just like I have done every Sunday for the last 25 years by not to go to mass.

Cody Pomeray · 18-07-2013 05:33PM

My name is URL wrote: »

They should still pay something towards the compensation fund.. just to avoid looking like the scumbags they are if for no other reason.

I don't think scumbags is a fair tag. Here's some of the work the Sisters of Charity do. Some of it, including endorsing the Turn off the Red Light campaign, is actually very progressive for women.

http://religioussistersofcharity.ie/what-we-do/

If you're saying they should make a contribution in the interests of PR, if nothing else, then I agree with you completely. This makes the organizations look terrible, despite the fact that there are people within these charities who do very good work.

We have to ask ourselves whether the assets these people have are worth more being sold off to private ownership, or as charitable assets which do valuable work for the community and the economy.

My name is URL · 18-07-2013 06:50PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I don't think scumbags is a fair tag. Here's some of the work the Sisters of Charity do. Some of it, including endorsing the Turn off the Red Light campaign, is actually very progressive for women.

http://religioussistersofcharity.ie/what-we-do/

If you're saying they should make a contribution in the interests of PR, if nothing else, then I agree with you completely. This makes the organizations look terrible, despite the fact that there are people within these charities who do very good work.

We have to ask ourselves whether the assets these people have are worth more being sold off to private ownership, or as charitable assets which do valuable work for the community and the economy.

I know they do a lot of good work and would never dispute the fact, but it's still a scumbag move imo.

That's actually a mild way of looking at it. You'd want to hear some of the language my mam used upon hearing that they're refusing to pay up.. and she's devout!

Mr. Nice · 18-07-2013 06:54PM

I hope that anybody who supports them is boycotting mass, permanently.
It's a bit hypocritical to agree with the survivors but still go to mass, and Jesus hated the hypocrites as much as he loved the little children.

Wattle · 18-07-2013 06:57PM

It seems to me that on the one hand they're helping some groups of women and on the other that they're telling another group of women that they abused to go to hell. Where's the consistency?

wp_rathead · 18-07-2013 07:01PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think it would be useful to hear the religious side of the story here.

Apparently, what they are saying in private, to the media, is that they are already saving the state a large amount of money by looking after women who want to remain in their care. They also feel they are being made to be scapegoats by (i) the Government and (ii) families of the 'unwanted' women, which is what these women were first and foremost.

The McAleese report was an uncomfortable read for anyone who prefers to jump to one-sided conclusions. The blame that lies at the feet of the religious orders is neither unqualified nor universal. I'd be slow to come down hard on the religious organizations in question without them at least giving their side of the story.

This bit is actually true Cody, families share large porportion of the blame but is unrelated to the issue at hand..
These institutions made ALOT of money on the back of unpaid labour that the women in the magdalene laundry's did- they deserve to get the money owed to them, on top of having to endure appalling conditions they were put under (eg: not allowed to talk unless saying prayers, having their identity taken and given different names, having their hair cut short so if they did "leave/escape" they would be easily identifable etc.)

There really is NO defending these organisitions refusing to contribute to the compensation kitty

Mr. Nice · 18-07-2013 07:18PM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I think most Catholics will obey the teachings of their Church first ie weekly Mass. AFAIK it's deemed to be a sin if you intentionally forego this.

Emmm, no Ted, 'tis neither a venial nor a mortal sin to forego the aul' weekly mass - it's just a bad habit.

ScumLord · 18-07-2013 07:34PM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I's a gamble that they could lose. More to the point if they encouraged Mass goers to abstain when the plate is passed around. Asking people to go against their beliefs (weekly Mass) is a step in the wrong direction IMO and could backfire.

I thought Catholic believed in the teachings of Jesus not just going to mass. I don't think it's going against their believes to ask them to stand up for what's right against an institution.

My name is URL wrote: »

You're right though. The state, and the citizens of the day are just as much to blame for what happened to those women as the institutions themselves are. How many women were placed into care against their will by Gardai, and with little or no recourse?

The difference is the Gardai have been reformed, the government has been replaced. I don't think the religious institutions have shown the same progress.

My name is URL · 18-07-2013 07:55PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The difference is the Gardai have been reformed, the government has been replaced. I don't think the religious institutions have shown the same progress.

It doesn't matter if they've been reformed or not, they still officially maintain that they were doing the right thing and completely refuse to acknowledge that they were, at times, working in cahoots with the institutions.. The McAleese Committee found as much.

An example of the approach can be seen with the section dealing with the Gardaí. Gardaí would arrest women who had escaped from the Magdalen institutions and return them to their clutches. There was even a standing order in the Garda handbook

“persons in institution uniform – if persons are noticed to be wandering about in the uniform of institutions, e.g. workhouse inmates they should be questioned and if they cannot give a satisfactory account of themselves they should be arrested”.

Asked now to justify this instruction- and their members’ implementation of it over the decades- by citing the legal basis for this action the Garda Report to the McAleese Committee came up with this:

[It]“may refer to the power of arrest at common law for the larceny of the uniform. This was a regular incident that Gardaí had to deal with and indeed some Garda records show that people have received convictions for ‘larceny of apparel’.

That is to say, the modern Irish police force are arguing that the women were being arrested for stealing the clothes on their back. This is presented as fact without comment or criticism in the Report.

http://www.mcgarrsolicitors.ie/2013/02/06/how-to-read-the-mcaleese-report-into-the-magdalen-laundries/

Ah.. they were just making sure nobody stole uniforms. Nothing at all to do with kowtowing to the religious establishment and their wishes.

Zebra3 · 18-07-2013 07:59PM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

I's a gamble that they could lose. More to the point if they encouraged Mass goers to abstain when the plate is passed around. Asking people to go against their beliefs (weekly Mass) is a step in the wrong direction IMO and could backfire.

Yep, because that's the biggie.

Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket.

Always curious as to why people with "God" (allegedly) on their side need so much money.

Sh1tbag OToole · 18-07-2013 08:00PM

I think I'll boycott weight instead.. become an austronaut

pablomakaveli · 18-07-2013 08:00PM

If they won't pay up maybe its time to start taxing religious orders. I see no reason why they shouldn't be taxed anyway.

Knasher · 18-07-2013 08:20PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The blame that lies at the feet of the religious orders is neither unqualified nor universal.

Nor has the blame that has been put at their feet been unqualified, we are all aware of the complicity of the state and society in general in what happened. And while I'd accept that not enough is being done by the state to make amends, particularly in the area of prosecutions, at least some progress is being made.

These orders, and by extension the church in general, continue to make every effort to shirk responsibility and protect their pocketbooks.

Demonique · 21-07-2013 02:45PM

My mother refused to boycott Mass, I told her she was a bitch and that I was ashamed to have her as a mother

shruikan2553 · 21-07-2013 02:48PM

So its business as usual for most of the country.

ScumLord · 21-07-2013 02:49PM

My name is URL wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they've been reformed or not, they still officially maintain that they were doing the right thing and completely refuse to acknowledge that they were, at times, working in cahoots with the institutions.. The McAleese Committee found as much.

If that's the case at least we can have some say in the matter. It is at least possible for us to track those Guards down and prosecute or fire them. It seems the church is untouchable.

padd b1975 · 21-07-2013 03:06PM

ScumLord wrote: »

If that's the case at least we can have some say in the matter. It is at least possible for us to track those Guards down and prosecute or fire them. It seems the church is untouchable.

Long since retired/passed on I would think.

An apology from the Garda Commissioner would be appropriate, if a little belated.

Magdalene survivors call on Catholics to boycott mass this weekend

Comments