Norwegian woman in Dubai raped: gets 1 year 4 months for "sex outside marriage"

Boom_Bap · 17-07-2013 05:13PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

At least you have the opportunity to do this. This Norwegian woman probably intended the same. She hardly set out to be raped.

I am not saying she deserved to be raped, no one does. But from the article, it sounds like she certainly wasnt abiding by custom if she is also being prosecuted for drinking alcohol and purjury.

FYI - i do not agree with the judicial system there, and do not agree that she should suffer or do jail time.

Boom_Bap · 17-07-2013 05:15PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Still paradise compared to Dubai. Hopefully your respect for their customs doesn't extend to the more barbaric ones. Or is it a case of it being "their culture"...

I don't get involved with thier customs, I respect that they exist.

theUbiq wrote: »

Thanks... I appreciate your feedback. Can you recommend a government?

No, I am merely stating that nowhere is perfect, we live in a pretty backwards place as well is all that I am saying.

Nodin · 17-07-2013 05:15PM

theUbiq wrote: »

Thanks... I appreciate your feedback. Can you recommend a government?

Well...one with nukes. US, Russia, French, Israel (they'll say they don't, but they do), India, Pakistan. Write to North Korea - they may not really have any, but they feel better when people treat them as if they're important.

Amirani · 17-07-2013 05:17PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I am not saying she deserved to be raped, no one does. But from the article, it sounds like she certainly wasnt abiding by custom if she is also being prosecuted for drinking alcohol and purjury.

FYI - i do not agree with the judicial system there, and do not agree that she should suffer or do jail time.

Yeah I wasn't necessarily having a go at you, and I wasn't under the impression that you meant that.

I was just pointing out that it's a lot easier for one gender to simply "abide by the traditions", without referring to just this case.

theUbiq · 17-07-2013 05:21PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I don't get involved with thier customs, I respect that they exist.

No, I am merely stating that nowhere is perfect, we live in a pretty backwards place as well is all that I am saying.

Indeed nowhere is perfect but jailing a woman after she had been raped and charging her with sex outside marriage is taking the biscuit... We all know Ireland's not perfect but you know we wouldn't accept this kinda ****e!

Sleepy · 17-07-2013 05:21PM

Why should traditions and customs that treat women as meat be respected?

Have never been and have no intention of ever going.

ScumLord · 17-07-2013 05:21PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I am not saying she deserved to be raped, no one does. But from the article, it sounds like she certainly wasnt abiding by custom if she is also being prosecuted for drinking alcohol and purjury.

I thought tourists could drink in their hotel?

I don't know why anyone would want to go to these places. I wouldn't step foot in the country, I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself with the fear of doing something wrong and ending up in prison.

Femme_Fatale · 17-07-2013 05:22PM

"Nowhere is perfect" is such a feeble rebuttal to criticism of atrocious autocracies like Saudi Arabia. For starters, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say any society was perfect. And it's a tad more than being imperfect that is what's objectionable about Saudi.

Ireland may have its flaws, some of them serious, but it is still a shining beacon of progressiveness compared to Saudi. And we have freedoms here people in Saudi can only dream of.

It seems to be a case too that while we should respect the customs of other ethnicities in this country (which I have no problem with, once they're not customs that violate people, e.g. FGM) the reverse ain't happening, which is another example of how this society is fairer.

theUbiq · 17-07-2013 05:23PM

Nodin wrote: »

Well...one with nukes. US, Russia, French, Israel (they'll say they don't, but they do), India, Pakistan. Write to North Korea - they may not really have any, but they feel better when people treat them as if they're important.

North Korea or France it is then... The rest of them are awful backwards places especially Amerika. Never heard of this Israel place you're talking about.

Amirani · 17-07-2013 05:26PM

theUbiq wrote: »

North Korea or France it is then... The rest of them are awful backwards places especially Amerika. Never heard of this Israel place you're talking about.

UK and China have some too if they're of interest to you?

Boom_Bap · 17-07-2013 05:28PM

Sleepy wrote: »

Why should traditions and customs that treat women as meat be respected?

Have never been and have no intention of ever going.

Because you are a guest in thier country.

ScumLord wrote: »

I thought tourists could drink in their hotel?

Yes, and there are places that you are allowed to drink in moderation. We dont know the full circumstance of the girl in the articles story.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

"Nowhere is perfect" is such a feeble rebuttal to criticism of atrocious autocracies like Saudi Arabia. For starters, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say any society was perfect. And it's a tad more than being imperfect that is what's objectionable about Saudi.

Ireland may have its flaws, some of them serious, but it is still a shining beacon of progressiveness compared to Saudi. And we have freedoms here people in Saudi can only dream of.

It seems to be a case too that while we should respect the customs of other ethnicities in this country (which I have no problem with, once they're not customs that violate people, e.g. FGM) the reverse ain't happening, which is another example of how this society is fairer.

I have 2 female, Irish, white friends living in Saudi, and they love the place, they have no problems there at all. In fact they are looking at extending thier stays there for another few years.
But I do agree, that I or you do not agree with the practicices that take place in these countries, specifically to women.

jmayo · 17-07-2013 05:32PM

By all accounts she got 1 year 4 months and the convicted rapist got 1 year 1 month.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/07/17/woman-jailed-for-reporting-rape/

But shure aren't the Al Maktoums a great bunch and don't they love their horses.

This isn't isloated incident.
In 2012 a Brtion who alleged gang rape by three men was charged with being drunk.
In 2010 an 18 year old Emirati was sentenced to a year in prison for illicit sex after she reported that she had been gang raped by six men.

Sarky · 17-07-2013 05:37PM

Not sure which is more likely to make me vomit, the fact that a rape victim is to be jailed for being raped, or that there are posters here telling us she was asking for it.

1ZRed · 17-07-2013 05:48PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Yeah, move into the 21st Century Irish style were the government is having a debate on abortion, the members involved girate with each other in a playful manner, have a few shandies during the proceedings. A country were the banks and government destroy the economy and impose tax increases after tax increases on the public....because that is not backwards.

I've been to the middle east many times before, and I'll most likely be going back but with the respect for the customs and traditions.

Yeah, and to a country were I wouldn't be jailed just for being gay, a woman wouldn't be made a criminal for getting raped and in general be nothing but a second class citizens directly under men in their society.

Yeah, but it's not so cheery here either sure it isn't?

We live in a utopia compared to them.

Hiding behind tradition is no excuse for violating basic human rights and it never will be either.

wp_rathead · 17-07-2013 06:07PM

jmayo wrote: »

By all accounts she got 1 year 4 months and the convicted rapist got 1 year 1 month.

...**** sake, what a wrapped sense of priorities

EDIT:
What is worse, we are only hearing about this because she is Norwegian. That is completly irrelevant. A Woman was raped and is being jailed- longer than the feckin rapist. ugh- feel dirty even typing that out

Femme_Fatale · 17-07-2013 06:09PM

Sarky wrote: »

Not sure which is more likely to make me vomit, the fact that a rape victim is to be jailed for being raped, or that there are posters here telling us she was asking for it.

I don't know that that was being said. I think asking why a woman would go to live there is a fair question. As a woman, I wonder it myself. It most certainly does not mean I think she'd ask to be raped/jailed for being raped.
Recently someone (a woman actually) posted a charming comment about a woman being raped in India, along the lines of "Well what did she expect going to that savage place - no point in crying about it now".
THAT sure was f'ucked up. But I don't think ruminations as to why a woman would go live in Dubai is the same thing.

Although any western women I know who live there like it because of the luxurious lifestyle. The majority of them are mad into money and expensive stuff (I'd say that in itself is reason alone for many people to move there) but not all the women I know over there are; they just want to save a lump sum and return home after a relatively short stint.

Generally speaking (not in relation to this specific case) disobeying laws over there too, no matter how draconian they are, is stupid. Not because it's a wrongdoing, but because you'd have no defence. Saying that isn't a respect for their laws, it's still an acknowledgement of how ****ing ridiculous they are.

ScumLord · 17-07-2013 06:14PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Although any western women I know who live there like it because of the luxurious lifestyle.

I would assume like most places that if they like the luxurious lifestyle they have plenty of money. I would guess having loads of money in a country like that means you get away with more and get to avoid dangerous places by being ferried from one place to another.

Derpington95 · 17-07-2013 06:17PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

I agree on the second one for sure. I know plenty of Muslims who'd condemn this, so I think you're being quite unfair in that respect when saying Islam should be kept away. Dubai and the UAE aren't even democratically elected Governments, so you can't really say they represent Muslims as a whole.

If you are a Muslim that means that you must follow Sharia law.
Sharia law is the Law set by God according to Islam.

If you do not agree with Sharia law then you are disagreeing with a major aspect of Islam and are not a Muslim.

In a religion you can't pick and choose the nice bits you'd like to obey and those which you wouldn't like to obey.

Nodin · 17-07-2013 06:19PM

Derpington95 wrote: »

If you are a Muslim that means that you must follow Sharia law.
Sharia law is the Law set by God according to Islam.

If you do not agree with Sharia law then you are disagreeing with a major aspect of Islam and are not a Muslim.

In a religion you can't pick and choose the nice bits you'd like to obey and those which you wouldn't like to obey.

...there are various sects of Islam, various readings of Sharia law.

Sonics2k · 17-07-2013 06:20PM

Derpington95 wrote: »

If you are a Muslim that means that you must follow Sharia law.
Sharia law is the Law set by God according to Islam.

If you do not agree with Sharia law then you are disagreeing with a major aspect of Islam and are not a Muslim.

In a religion you can't pick and choose the nice bits you'd like to obey and those which you wouldn't like to obey.

And yet millions of Muslims, Jews, Christians and more all do the same thing.

I'm pretty sure a defining point of religion is picking and choosing.

kraggy · 17-07-2013 06:21PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I am not saying she deserved to be raped, no one does. But from the article, it sounds like she certainly wasnt abiding by custom if she is also being prosecuted for drinking alcohol and purjury.

FYI - i do not agree with the judicial system there, and do not agree that she should suffer or do jail time.

She couldn't have been prosecuted for drinking alcohol. Unless it was on a beach or something. Alcohol is sold legally in Dubai in plenty of bars and off licenses.

I am pie · 17-07-2013 06:22PM

I will never set foot in the place if I can possibly help it. What a cruel & spiteful justice system.

Nodin · 17-07-2013 06:30PM

kraggy wrote: »

She couldn't have been prosecuted for drinking alcohol. Unless it was on a beach or something. Alcohol is sold legally in Dubai in plenty of bars and off licenses.

.....it may be that she was convicted of drinking outside a designated area. We'll have to await more info.

1ZRed · 17-07-2013 06:30PM

Derpington95 wrote: »

If you are a Muslim that means that you must follow Sharia law.
Sharia law is the Law set by God according to Islam.

If you do not agree with Sharia law then you are disagreeing with a major aspect of Islam and are not a Muslim.

In a religion you can't pick and choose the nice bits you'd like to obey and those which you wouldn't like to obey.

Hmmm.. clearly you haven't met many Irish 'Catholics' in your travels so

Sinfonia · 17-07-2013 06:50PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Because you are a guest in thier country.

If I were selling alcohol to a 20-year-old in the States and got prosecuted for it, I wouldn't complain; nor if I were prosecuted for littering in Singapore.
The reasons being, that those laws - in spite of severe punishment relative to Ireland - are designed for the protection of the citizens and environment, and that I perpetrated the act in both cases.
Because of that, if in Dubai there are strict rules regarding alcohol, then somebody prosecuted for perpetrating an act which breaks those rules shouldn't complain. Being raped, i.e. forced to have sex outside of marriage with no choice in the matter, doesn't fit within the same lines.

Guest or not, we're talking about practices of law that are abominable in terms of human rights.

If I went to Josef Fritzl's house, I'd take off my shoes and refrain from smoking if he asked. But if I saw his daughter in the basement I probably wouldn't say "sure it's his house, his rules"

Blisterman · 17-07-2013 07:05PM

The attitude of "It's their country, so you've got to respect their laws, and if you get caught you deserve it" is nonsense. Right and wrong, justice and injustice are universal, regardless of what arbitrary piece of land you happen to be on.

jma · 17-07-2013 07:09PM

From what I've read, this woman didn't move to Dubai; she was on a business trip.

Under UAE law, rapists can only be convicted if either the perpetrator confesses or if four adult Muslim males witness the crime.

So, if the rapist was convicted, he must have either confessed or else there were witnesses. Or, he admitted the extra-marital sex but denied the rape...

Earlier this year Australian Alicia Gali, 27, spoke of how she was thrown in a Dubai jail for eight months after she reported a rape.

Miss Gali was working at hotel chain Starwood when her drink was spiked in the staff bar.

She awoke to find that three colleagues had raped her, but when she went to a hospital for help, they turned her over to the police and she was charged with illicit sex outside marriage.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2367152/Norwegian-woman-reported-raped-Dubai-jailed-16-months.html

JuliusCaesar · 17-07-2013 07:15PM

Derpington95 wrote: »

In a religion you can't pick and choose the nice bits you'd like to obey and those which you wouldn't like to obey.

Plenty of á la carte Catholics here.

Even during the bad ol' days (1970s), there was a fair amount of contraception being imported O_O

As for sex before marriage, has everyone checked their parents/grandparents marriage certificate against the date of birth of the first child?

How many people REALLY believe that alter wine transubstantiates into the blood of god, and the communion wafer into the body of god? That they are literally eating Jesus?

And yet, they still consider themselves Catholic. I've never understood this.

JuliusCaesar · 17-07-2013 07:20PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Hopefully your respect for their customs doesn't extend to the more barbaric ones. Or is it a case of it being "their culture"...

Mary Robinson talks about this. She says she refers to "harmful traditional practices", rather than "tradition" or "culture". Just because people have being doing certain things since the year dot, doesn't mean that these practices are automatically worthy of respect.

Zebra3 · 17-07-2013 07:33PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

"Nowhere is perfect" is such a feeble rebuttal to criticism of atrocious autocracies like Saudi Arabia. For starters, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say any society was perfect. And it's a tad more than being imperfect that is what's objectionable about Saudi.

Ireland may have its flaws, some of them serious, but it is still a shining beacon of progressiveness compared to Saudi. And we have freedoms here people in Saudi can only dream of.

It seems to be a case too that while we should respect the customs of other ethnicities in this country (which I have no problem with, once they're not customs that violate people, e.g. FGM) the reverse ain't happening, which is another example of how this society is fairer.

In Ireland we don't prosecute religious leaders who protect child rapists.

That's how "progressive" we are. :rolleyes:

Norwegian woman in Dubai raped: gets 1 year 4 months for "sex outside marriage"

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