2 Elderly brother beaten to death in Mayo

Galwayguy35 · 11-07-2013 02:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's try to be logical for a second.

If this is just a burglary gone bad let's think. The vast majority of burglars actually don't look for confrontation. Otherwise the number of murders would be closer to the number of burglaries. This is a freak occurance involving at least one person completely losing their ****. They're not thinking logically, they're not thinking about how they're going to do 5 fewer years in prison than AH would recommend. This is either calculated (doubtful) or it's a few moments of insanity that the law can't prevent.

Ah come on, two people were killed, would this not imply a bit more than a "few moments of insanity"?

No?

mikom · 11-07-2013 02:25AM

One of tomorrows newspapers is reporting that the man arrested was just recently released from prison.

clairefontaine · 11-07-2013 02:54AM

ScumLord wrote: »

Might as well do the death penalty then. It's cheaper and there's no possibility of parole.

The death penalty is very expensive.

However, I can see the argument for personal gun ownership when Ireland's police resources are stretched so thin, especially in rural areas.

11-07-2013 02:57AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Ah come on, two people were killed, would this not imply a bit more than a "few moments of insanity"?

No?

Did they plan to do it? If so then it's not "a burglary gone wrong". What other alternative is there?

False Prophet · 11-07-2013 03:22AM

clairefontaine wrote: »

The death penalty is very expensive.

However, I can see the argument for personal gun ownership when Ireland's police resources are stretched so thin, especially in rural areas.

The problem with guns is that robbers would then be armed and even more dangerous.
Also will have increase in gun deaths by accident and possible usa style incidents.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 11-07-2013 07:16AM

yoloc wrote: »

Ireland is ****ed. Real sorry to hear what happened to these fellas and how anyone can do such a thing is beyond me. I would think with this guy being 26, he's prob be off his head on drugs and just looking a quick buck and rob these 2 fellas. Why he killed them is just out of order. Just a pity the way this country is at the moment because if things had of been better, this young lad would prob be in employment with alot going for him in life(thats if hes unemployed) but now we have him go do such a daft thing and went and murdered 2 helpless old men.

IMO this is a disgusting post that seems to try and excuse the brutal and viscious unprovoked attack on two elderly gentlemen in their own home.
There is no excusing this savagery.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 11-07-2013 07:28AM

Just take a look at this, on the same day the two mens bodies were discovered a Circut Court judge in Dublin gave an armed robber, with 17 previous convictions a 3 year suspended sentence, despite having 17 previous convictions the guy has NEVER been to prison!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-tells-robber-hell-get-a-root-up-the-backside-and-jail-if-he-reoffends-29412196.html

"The judge told Webster his crime was a nasty one and that he had made a determined effort to terrorise people who were at work."

The court heard that Webster has 17 previous convictions which were all dealt with in the District Court and he has never served a prison sentence.

Maybe his next crime will involve killing somebody, since after 18 convictions he has learned that there are no real consequences to his actions.

dj jarvis · 11-07-2013 08:03AM

so some were thinking it had nothing to do with the justice system ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/suspect-in-murder-of-brothers-just-out-of-prison-29411893.html

I hope the ****er rots in prison for good this time - but somehow i doubt it
2 men for 200 euro - what a stupid stupid waste of life. :mad:

AlekSmart · 11-07-2013 08:25AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

so some were thinking it had nothing to do with the justice system ?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/suspect-in-murder-of-brothers-just-out-of-prison-29411893.html

I hope the ****er rots in prison for good this time - but somehow i doubt it
2 men for 200 euro - what a stupid stupid waste of life. :mad:

I feel this quote may be perhaps the most important one of this bleak and frightening article...

"When Jack was attacked, they urinated on him but he didn't give a statement to the guards because a court would make a fool of a man who was half-blind and half-deaf," he said.
[/SIZE]

Perhaps during a lull in his busy schedule,Alan Shatter might give some thought to the reasons for this Citizen's opinion on our Court Systems percieved priorities.

These two men typified the Citizen,for whom our much referenced Constitution was written for...It's protections and regards,meant to protect a poor,downtrodden people with nobody to speak for them....

Since 1923,much has happened to make our Constitution outdated and argued over,but,for sure that mans fears over his standing in an Irish Court of Law,should be drawing tears from any Minister for Justice making claim to be the upholder of that Constitution.

Yet the fact now remains that these two unfortunates,who typified the "Hard-Life" story of so many of their generation,are dead,victims of a savage partially humanoid individual,whose welfare,health and safety is now of paramount importance to this State.

I will be unsurprised if the accused's familiarity with our glorious Legal System ensures that he won't have many fears over the same Courts "making a fool of him",as he makes further use of the Free Legal Aid systems paid for by members of the Society he chooses to attack and murder.

Pro Life...Pro Choice... endless politicking and mass marches to argue head-of-pin semantics....vastly expensive Constitutional referenda to decide these issues......

Will any serving Minister choose to lead a march to stand up for the Constitutional right to life of Jack and Tom Blaine..?

rusheen · 11-07-2013 09:22AM

Multiple re offenders in and out of prison with x amount of previous convictions shouldnt be given patrol ever . Prison is a punishment where people are supposed to reflect and reform . People can make an innocent mistakes and reform , But people who re offended again and again need to be treated differently . Longterm harsh prisons , Chuck them into a prison cell with 10 others, no playstations or cards or drugs .
Hard labour so the can pay back society
People will think in modern developed western europe these sort conditions wouldnt be allowed and these type of prisons only exist in 3rd world countries ?
Look at conditions in prisons in two european G8 nations , italy and france , youll be surprised . cut the funding in prisons , save money and spend the savings are worthwhile causes .

myfriendtom · 11-07-2013 09:52AM

Bring back the gallows IMO. Scumbags.

Wibbs · 11-07-2013 09:58AM

Old and grey wrote: »

Just take a look at this, on the same day the two mens bodies were discovered a Circut Court judge in Dublin gave an armed robber, with 17 previous convictions a 3 year suspended sentence, despite having 17 previous convictions the guy has NEVER been to prison!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-tells-robber-hell-get-a-root-up-the-backside-and-jail-if-he-reoffends-29412196.html

"The judge told Webster his crime was a nasty one and that he had made a determined effort to terrorise people who were at work."

The court heard that Webster has 17 previous convictions which were all dealt with in the District Court and he has never served a prison sentence.

Maybe his next crime will involve killing somebody, since after 18 convictions he has learned that there are no real consequences to his actions.

Jesus. Fcuking. Christ. At what point in the life cycle of becoming a judge do they remove the brain?

RustyNut · 11-07-2013 10:15AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus. Fcuking. Christ. At what point in the life cycle of becoming a judge do they remove the brain?

This is what happens when people are appointed to powerful positions based on there political connections not on merit.

signostic · 11-07-2013 10:51AM

Supt Diskin 2 weeks ago

“Nobody should be afraid to walk the streets of the town at any time. Nobody will be allowed to hold Castlebar under siege in any respect,” he stated.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/3794-families-involved-in-criminality-not-being-resettled-here

14 barristers employed in this case -

Judge Johnson then asked the 14 defence counsels to impress upon each of the defendants the importance of entering into mediation.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18118:judge-tells-ballinrobe-confirmation-brawlers-to-abandon-festering-feud&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Mr. Nice · 11-07-2013 10:52AM

wicklowstevo wrote: »

I ve ****ed of travellers who came

Sucked?

wilson10 · 11-07-2013 11:48AM

Whoever carried out this crime made the wise decision to kill both, well if you just happen to kill one in the course of carrying out your job, you don't want to be leaving a witness to possibly identify you.

With the system of concurrent sentencing we have in this country sure you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, only of course you won't be hung anyway, more's the pity.

Just like the scumbag who murdered the four people, including two children and got four life sentences, to run concurrently which means that he could be out in fifteen years, this lowlife, if convicted will get concurrent sentences, so there is no deterrent.

I reckon if Hitler had been caught, tried and convicted in Ireland he would have got six million life sentences to run concurrently and served 15 years max.

Wibbs · 11-07-2013 11:51AM

RustyNut wrote: »

This is what happens when people are appointed to powerful positions based on there political connections not on merit.

But that doesn't explain it RN, even if all of them were FF/FG shills you'd think they'd be more aggressive in sentencing for the good public relations it would get them. A "hanging judge" would be beyond popular compared to the slap on the wrist brigade.

Now I do get that the law(and the EU) set maximum sentences and the like. OK, but in the case quoted the convicted and repeat offender didn't get any sentence and no suspended does not bloody well count. 17 bloody convictions and no Gaol time? What the ever living fcuk. I do think my question stands; at what point in the life cycle of becoming a judge do they remove the brain?

renegademaster · 11-07-2013 11:58AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm absolutely not blaming the Guards, I know a good number of them and I hear the frustration and exasperation at the roadblocks to their effectiveness constantly put in their way by policy makers and liberal hand wringers.

I blame an outrageously out of touch penal system and successive Governments.

I blame us all for not really holding present and past government to account. if we had decided we didn't want any garda stations to close we could have demanded it, if we wanted even more gardai to protect our elders in the countryside we could have demanded it.

governments only do what they get away with so ultimately we are to blame and have so much blood on our hands but ya lets blame government!!

Pollydee · 11-07-2013 12:04PM

I love how we blame everyone except the psychopaths who carry out this type of attack. The gardai, the social workers, the government. When did personal responsibility get removed from the equation?

Boombastic · 11-07-2013 12:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

........................

Now I do get that the law(and the EU) set maximum sentences and the like. .............

Malcom Mc Arthur has been in prison for over 30 years. Why can't these guys be given similar sentences?..and concurrent sentences need to be done away with and suspended sentences enacted.

We've spent 30 million so far on a new prison ( we paid 'double' for the site) and spent another half a million putting trees on it and another couple of million on facilities and getting siac to build an access road ...that sure is some pretty field.

RustyNut · 11-07-2013 12:17PM

Wibbs wrote: »

But that doesn't explain it RN, even if all of them were FF/FG shills you'd think they'd be more aggressive in sentencing for the good public relations it would get them. A "hanging judge" would be beyond popular compared to the slap on the wrist brigade.

Now I do get that the law(and the EU) set maximum sentences and the like. OK, but in the case quoted the convicted and repeat offender didn't get any sentence and no suspended does not bloody well count. 17 bloody convictions and no Gaol time? What the ever living fcuk. I do think my question stands; at what point in the life cycle of becoming a judge do they remove the brain?

Yea I take your point,17 convictions and no custodial sentence is brainless.

The whole "justice" system needs to be completely reformed from the top down but there are two many powerful vested interests who are doing quite nicely from the status quo for any meaningful change.

I think one of the big problems is the fact that judges are political appointees and are not openly selected on their merit.

I'd say the current crop lost a lot of their brain cells in the Galway tent or whatever the FG version is.

Wibbs · 11-07-2013 12:17PM

Pollydee wrote: »

I love how we blame everyone except the psychopaths who carry out this type of attack. The gardai, the social workers, the government. When did personal responsibility get removed from the equation?

I don't blame the Guards. TBH given the shít support and resources they get I'm amazed at the good job they usually do. Social workers? OK some of them are cloud cuckoo land hippies, but most are well aware of the issues as they're on the ground dealing with it and sometimes even getting assaulted for their trouble. The government? Yep I'd lay quite a bit of blame at their feet. Mostly though the judiciary would be the focus of my ire.

The "pshycopaths" aren't the issue, it's how they're dealt with is. TBH I don't understand your post.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 11-07-2013 12:21PM

renegademaster wrote: »

I blame us all for not really holding present and past government to account. if we had decided we didn't want any garda stations to close we could have demanded it, if we wanted even more gardai to protect our elders in the countryside we could have demanded it.

governments only do what they get away with so ultimately we are to blame and have so much blood on our hands but ya lets blame government!!

This crime had zero to do with Garda Stations closing, the Garda Station in Castlebar wasn't closed.
As for "we" being to blame you can feck right off, I am not to blame or responsible for this atrocity, the fcuker who did is to blame, nobody else!

Pollydee · 11-07-2013 12:30PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't blame the Guards. TBH given the shít support and resources they get I'm amazed at the good job they usually do. Social workers? OK some of them are cloud cuckoo land hippies, but most are well aware of the issues as they're on the ground dealing with it and sometimes even getting assaulted for their trouble. The government? Yep I'd lay quite a bit of blame at their feet. Mostly though the judiciary would be the focus of my ire.

The "pshycopaths" aren't the issue, it's how they're dealt with is. TBH I don't understand your post.

Yes I agree the judiciary are mostly blame here. Sentencing in this country is indefensible.

My post isn't too difficult to understand really. When something horrible like happens, it seems to me that people try to find anyone to blame instead of blaming the culprits. I include the judiciary in that by the way. Excuses are all too readily made for this type of scum.

Anyway I don't see how the "psychopaths" aren't at least part of the issue??

Ordinary man · 11-07-2013 12:42PM

How many more innocent people have to die before the higher powers agree that the system is broke. There's always an argument against more severe and drastic punishments but imo it couldn't have a worse outcome than the pampering system now. There is no defence for the type of person who committed this crime and no amount of mollycoddling will fix him so why should he have any basic rights?

tayto lover · 11-07-2013 12:47PM

The unfortunate thing about all this is that we have also posted on similar incidents before and voiced our opinions on the Justice system for years now but nothing is changing. It seems to be actually getting worse.

With the closure of St. Patrick's Institution for young males things will not improve.

In my opinion society has to change. We have to blame the parenting that allows young children to commit crime and to grow up into a life of crime. If we were to deduct the costs of damage from SW payments or Family Allowance you would see a change immediately. Hit the parents of unruly children in the pocket and they will soon learn.

Da Shins Kelly · 11-07-2013 01:02PM

Two lovely fellas, local eccentrics, but completely harmless, and well known around the town. I can't fathom this, to be honest. Such a horrid end.

However, I'm still not inclined to jump straight to the conclusion that the culprit is some random person with a load of previous convictions. No possibility at all that it's someone who knew them or was related to them? A dispute over money or a will perhaps?

That aside, sentencing in this country does have to change. I don't agree with the death penalty or anything like that, but there needs to be some level of fear about the prospect of prison, which there doesn't seem to be at all. Prison should be something that acts as a deterrent for people committing multiple crimes (nothing will act as a deterrent for people committing crimes of passion, or crimes in the throes of madness). But even deeper than that, there needs to be a long look taken at society in general, and why people are turning to these kinds of violent and reckless lifestyles.

Hopefully the Gardaí actually have their hands on the right person.

washman3 · 11-07-2013 02:02PM

Boombastic wrote: »

We've spent 30 million so far on a new prison ( we paid 'double' for the site) and spent another half a million putting trees on it and another couple of million on facilities and getting siac to build an access road ...that sure is some pretty field.

Actually I think we paid about 4-5 times what that site was worth.!
And the really worrying thing is that the person behind 'the great idea' is now calling for a new party to be formed in Ireland 'to reform the country' with himself at the epicentre of course.!! Michael McDowell is his name. Remember him? with the famous quote 'the sting of a dying wasp' :mad:

Frank Lee Midere · 11-07-2013 02:47PM

Does Ireland even have the option of life without parole like the UK? In the absence of consecutive sentencing that would be something - murder more than once and it's a real life sentence.

Without that the perp is practically encouraged to kill witnesses.

Frank Lee Midere · 11-07-2013 03:04PM

To put the issue of concurrent sentencing into focus take the story of Brian Hennessey.

He killed 3 people, a mother and 2 kids after either raping or having sex with the mother on Christmas Eve. He strangled her to silence her and then decided to burn the house down to make it look like an accident. Without DNA they never would have found him.

But let's look at the cost-benefit analysis after the first death ( result from his point of view)

1) do nothing
Worst result: life sentence
Best result: free if there is no DNA (unlikely)

2) kill two more children.
Worst result: life sentence
Best result: free if there is no DNA ( more likely after a fire)

He wasn't any more a psychopath to burn down the house than the original murder, because of the Irish legal system it made sense.

2 Elderly brother beaten to death in Mayo

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