2 Elderly brother beaten to death in Mayo

Larbre34

Castlebar, Taoiseach's back yard, botched robbery, men aged 69 and 76.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elderly-brothers-beaten-to-death-during-botched-burglary-29408955.html

First of all, the sympathies and condemnation of all right thinking people to their families and community.

Second, this has been coming. At what point are the people of Ireland, vulnerable rural communities in particular, going to react in a proper fashion to the evisceration and emasculation of policing in this state, the unchecked marauding thugs who have the upper hand on the guards, the utterly useless and impotent criminal justice and detention policies of the courts and the government?

I have two living parents of a similar age, thankfully they dont live in isolation, but in a busy suburb with good neighbours, and despite all the security precautions taken on the house, I am permanently very afraid for them....

and yet if they got life , its infringing there human rights wtf

Xenji

The two brothers were harmless as well and well known around town, I hope that this is a big wake up call for the town, most people know the element that perpetuated this and have been running rough shot around the town, I can see retaliations and reprisals against them for this, seeing that the Gardai have a proven record of not doing anything here.

This was anything but a rural area, it was in the middle of town, thankfully around that area they have a lot of cameras.

Aglomerado

Shocking tragedy, sympathies to the victims' family and community.

Disgusting that they should die in this manner! Like the OP, I've parents around the same age living in a smaller rural community and I feel afraid for them at times, more so with stories like this.

homerjay2005

Deleted User wrote: »

and yet if they got life , its infringing there human rights wtf

you commit a serious crime like this, your human rights should be quashed, end of.

wicklowstevo

larbre I agree with you there , its been coming and wont be the last time , my elderly mother lives alone and in a rural area . I ve ****ed of travellers who came calling in the past but don't live there full time,

its a complete failing for government. criminal justice and the destruction of the gardai by and minister who hates them. I would be un surprised and unwilling to condemn any one who took the law into their own hands. but how far and how extreme can you go. these animals murdered two innocent men in their own homes for a few euro or what ever , what do you think should be their punishment /.

ScumLord

Xenji wrote: »

I can see retaliations and reprisals against them for this, seeing that the Gardai have a proven record of not doing anything here.

I wouldn't blame the guards, it's the system they operate in. Even if the guard does the work and gets the guy into a court the judge will turn around and let him go again.

With the guards being so toothless I'd wonder if retribution is the only option left open to communities. It worked in the past.

the groutch

watch Edna empoying hundreds of new Gardai in the county.

Larbre34

I'm absolutely not blaming the Guards, I know a good number of them and I hear the frustration and exasperation at the roadblocks to their effectiveness constantly put in their way by policy makers and liberal hand wringers.

I blame an outrageously out of touch penal system and successive Governments.

caustic 1

My inlaws live in a rural area but are in constant fear of this happening. This now will only add to their fear, queue checking rechecking locks, doors, windows and every strange car that comes about is suspect. It is a sad way to live your life.

Condolences to all in this community.

I hope the cowardly lowlife scum that did it is found and gets the treatment they deserve.

ash23

The area isn't rural though. It's in the middle of Castlebar in a well built up area.
It's a large town.

I think the problem is that vunerable older people are being targetted, be that in rural locations or urban.

There should be financial support for elderly people who are trying to increase the security in their homes. Similar to the warmer homes scheme, maybe the government/charities should roll out a "safer homes scheme".

Wibbs

ScumLord wrote: »

With the guards being so toothless.

It really isn't the Guards SL. They'd only love to catch these kind of scum, hell many of them come from such rural areas themselves, but like you say it's the judicial system that lets the human skidmarks walk or get short sentences or get one sentence lumped together for a load of convictions. How often do we hear they were "known to Gardai" or "20 previous convictions when out on bail/were taken into account". It is fúcking insanity.

Retribution appeals on a gut instinct level, but when the blood cools you think maybe not as escalation is much more likely. Look at the feuds that can last for generations among Travellers for example.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Shocking and disgusting crime,my sympathies to their family and community.
I have no doubt that the Gardai will apprehend the culprits as they have a very high success rate in cases like this.
The mandatory sentence for murder is rightly life imprisonment so I wouldn't worry about the judge letting them walk as some posters have stated.
Again, a disgusting an reprehensible act, cowardly and cruel in the extreme.

Larbre34

ash23 wrote: »

There should be financial support for elderly people who are trying to increase the security in their homes. Similar to the warmer homes scheme, maybe the government/charities should roll out a "safer homes scheme".

Thats a fantastic idea, maybe there are some supports available already but Ive never come across them. It could create a few jobs as well, the only thing is they would have to be so careful with who would go on the approved list of installers, the security industry under the PSA has a huge issue with rogue operators

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Wibbs wrote: »

It really isn't the Guards SL. They'd only love to catch these kind of scum, hell many of them come from such rural areas themselves, but like you say it's the judicial system that lets the human skidmarks walk or get short sentences or get one sentence lumped together for a load of convictions. How often do we hear they were "known to Gardai" or "20 previous convictions when out on bail/were taken into account". It is fúcking insanity.

Retribution appeals on a gut instinct level, but when the blood cools you think maybe not as escalation is much more likely. Look at the feuds that can last for generations among Travellers for example.

My own view is that we need to change the law to ensure that anyone accused of a serious crime, who has previous convictions, cannot be granted bail, end of!
Societies rights have to balanced against the rights of the accused, and if they have previous then no bail!

Dyr

How about arming older folk in vulnerable areas so they actually don't get killed instead of acting after the fact to catch the bad guys

mike65

I listened to an RTE report at the top of the news at One, and they did not give a clue to any violent death as far as I recall (admittedly I could have been listening more closely).

flutered

i have a tazer, i intend to use it if even 10% required, and fcuk the concquences.

Manach

Condolences to the family.

flutered

mike65 wrote: »

I listened to an RTE report at the top of the news at One, and they did not give a clue to any violent death as far as I recall (admittedly I could have been listening more closely).

its a pr exercise

FutureGuy

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't blame the guards, it's the system they operate in. Even if the guard does the work and gets the guy into a court the judge will turn around and let him go again.

With the guards being so toothless I'd wonder if retribution is the only option left open to communities. It worked in the past.

Masks. Lots and lots of masks.

I Heart Internet

Xenji wrote: »

The two brothers were harmless as well and well known around town, I hope that this is a big wake up call for the town, most people know the element that perpetuated this and have been running rough shot around the town, I can see retaliations and reprisals against them for this, seeing that the Gardai have a proven record of not doing anything here.

Not trying to be smart, but if you really do know, or think you know, who might have done this then you should be reporting it to the Gardai.

The Gardai can only do so much without people telling them what they know.

Viper_JB

Sick people, anybody capable of such a horrific attack should not be allowed breathe a free breath of air again in their lives.

My name is URL

Old and grey wrote: »

I have no doubt that the Gardai will apprehend the culprits as they have a very high success rate in cases like this.
The mandatory sentence for murder is rightly life imprisonment so I wouldn't worry about the judge letting them walk as some posters have stated.

That's assuming they get charged and prosecuted for murder. We don't exactly have the best record in that regard.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-jailed-for-robbery-of-pensioner-448533.html

Condolences to the guys family & friends.. these stories really piss me off. There should be mandatory and very harsh sentences for home invasions.

xzanti

Utterly sickening.. but unfortunately not shocking in these times...

What a tragic end to their lives.. horrific :mad: I hope their family gets justice.

RIP

Tugboats

Disgrace. Nothing will be done unless they send this man in
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Myy1LXvxzoU/T4rPct_j78I/AAAAAAAAAAg/BKFmowT3Czg/s400/Padraig+Nally.jpg

Xenji

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Not trying to be smart, but if you really do know, or think you know, who might have done this then you should be reporting it to the Gardai.

The Gardai can only do so much without people telling them what they know.

I did not make specifics about names, and I tried to leave it vague as per the rules here, I do not know the people who did this and never claimed to, but from other instances around town it is one of two groups of people and I am sure the Gardai are already well informed as to who these groups are.

Irishcrx

The whole justice system as we all know is a joke, has been for years. Sure if you fancy a life in crime, move to Ireland at least if you get caught you'll only get a rap on the knuckles the first 20 times, after that it's off the holiday camp for a few years where you can meet new friends, new business partners, bulk yourself up at leasure, take drugs , smoke , watch some TV, play some Xbox and have your meals handed to you. Prison in this country doesn't turn people off prison it makes crime seem easier when your released, the stats would back that up.

The government would want to have a think about that and actually make changes , hell go home stick on eetflix and whack on 'Russia's toughest prisons' that is how to run a prison, that is how to scare the hell out of wannabe or would be criminals and that is how to cage animals like these ****s. It's a prison not a holiday camp and they deserve every minute of it. Just a run down for anyone who hasn't seen it.

* You are held in a cell within a cell under 24/7 supervision by camera.
* You are referred to a prisoner 1567 etc you have no name.
* You answer every question yes sir no sir or you get the bat.
* Your cell is searched every day while you are pudt in a cage outside. Violation leads to immediate isolation and loss of what little privaelages you may have.
* No TV.
* No yard
* No interaction with other inmates.
* Halls are manned and patrolled by German shepards 24/7
* If you attempt to escape you are shot.
* You are blindfolder when being moved from building to building.
* You may have one 1 hour visit per month.
* You are fed in your cell.

Very interesting watch, and the interviews with the prisoners they are broken men. The young offenders seem genuinely terrified of ever coming back.

Xenji

It is also a bit ironic that this occurred literally around the corner from Enda Kenny's constituency office.

greenpilot

Whether it is the Gardai or citizens who know/apprehend these **** eating scum, an example must be made of them. These are the fat bastards who lounge around the Courthouse steps on a regular basis in full view....and I will say it again....full view of the citizens they fcuk over. There was a time in the West when these dole guzzling lowlifes would be beaten, stripped and dragged around to every halting site before being buried in the deepest bog in the Nephin mountains. Fine Mods, ban me for this one, but today, two good men lie dead just like the honour of todays society.

I Heart Internet

Irishcrx wrote: »

The whole justice system as we all know is a joke, has been for years. Sure if you fancy a life in crime, move to Ireland at least if you get caught you'll only get a rap on the knuckles the first 20 times, after that it's off the holiday camp for a few years where you can meet new friends, new business partners, bulk yourself up at leasure, take drugs , smoke , watch some TV, play some Xbox and have your meals handed to you. Prison in this country doesn't turn people off prison it makes crime seem easier when your released, the stats would back that up.

The government would want to have a think about that and actually make changes , hell go home stick on eetflix and whack on 'Russia's toughest prisons' that is how to run a prison, that is how to scare the hell out of wannabe or would be criminals and that is how to cage animals like these ****s. It's a prison not a holiday camp and they deserve every minute of it. Just a run down for anyone who hasn't seen it.

* You are held in a cell within a cell under 24/7 supervision by camera.
* You are referred to a prisoner 1567 etc you have no name.
* You answer every question yes sir no sir or you get the bat.
* Your cell is searched every day while you are pudt in a cage outside. Violation leads to immediate isolation and loss of what little privaelages you may have.
* No TV.
* No yard
* No interaction with other inmates.
* Halls are manned and patrolled by German shepards 24/7
* If you attempt to escape you are shot.
* You are blindfolder when being moved from building to building.
* You may have one 1 hour visit per month.
* You are fed in your cell.

Very interesting watch, and the interviews with the prisoners they are broken men. The young offenders seem genuinely terrified of ever coming back.

How has that regime worked out for Russia??

It's a beacon of peace, traquility and law-abiding, non-alcoholic people?

ScumLord

Wibbs wrote: »

Retribution appeals on a gut instinct level, but when the blood cools you think maybe not as escalation is much more likely. Look at the feuds that can last for generations among Travellers for example.

I've heard stories from the older people in town that when a local gets out of hand he gets ran from the town. They wouldn't get served anywhere are were open to being publicly beat if they ever showed up again.

Although they're only pushing the problem onto someone else I suppose.

Fussgangerzone

It's just so enraging. I'm sure there is a lot the gardai would like to do that they don't have the personnel to carry out. As for imprisonment, I don't think that's much incentive to the kind of people we're dealing with.

You need something like a panic button hooked up to five of your neighbours houses. Punitive justice won't bring anyone back to life, you need to catch these people before they've done their worst. And if you shot them and left them in a shallow grave, I don't think anyone would think less of you.

kona

I Heart Internet wrote: »

How has that regime worked out for Russia??

It's a beacon of peace, traquility and law-abiding, non-alcoholic people?

Not much worse than here by the sounds of it.

Amalgam

Certain parts of society only understand being given money, or having money taken from them. Prison and anything similar is a waste of time and money.

Link crime to any and all payments from the state. Committing offences then changes when\if\how 'entitlements' are dispensed.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

and yet if they got life , its infringing there human rights wtf

the problem is too many people know their human rights but not their human responsibilities

Fussgangerzone

Irishcrx wrote: »

The government would want to have a think about that and actually make changes , hell go home stick on Netflix and whack on 'Russia's toughest prisons' that is how to run a prison...

Apparently Russia actually has a really high rate of recidivism, so this isn't working for them. Their incarceration rate is about 7 times higher than ours, too.

Fussgangerzone

Amalgam wrote: »

Certain parts of society only understand being given money, or having money taken from them. Prison and anything similar is a waste of time and money.

Link crime to any and all payments from the state. Committing offences then changes when\if\how 'entitlements' are dispensed.

I agree with the sentiment here, but putting people with a willingness to commit crime in a position where they're desperately short of money mightn't work out well for the less dangerous members of society.

Amalgam

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment here, but putting people with a willingness to commit crime in a position where they're desperately short of money mightn't work out well for the less dangerous members of society.

You're second guessing a failure of any initiative.

Believe me, you'd see a change in behaviour, I also think parents should be dealt the same way regarding their, 'little angels'. kick people down any lists and force an automatic reappraisal of all payments.

You need to place a 'burden' on ****ehawks. I'm not talking about prison. It has to be something that preoccupies their little minds. 'Where's me scraaaaatch..'

Deise Vu

It seems to me that our laws have the wrong priorities and are a throwback to the days of the landed gentry who, having plenty of bodyguards, were more concerned for their property than coming to bodily harm. Personally I would choose every window in my house being broken and everything in the house stolen over me, or one of my family, receiving a serious beating. I could replace everything in the house but I would never regain the confidence of feeling secure in my house or out on the street again and that would be a real tragedy versus making an insurance claim.

MY suggestion is vandals should be doing community service, thieves, fraudsters etc should pay compensation (reduce their pay / dole and pay it to the victim, seize assets etc) and prisons should be the sole reserve for dangerous criminals who need to be taken off our streets. The murdering bastards who perpetrated those cruel murders in Castlebar should never see the light of day again.

My condolences to the family and friends of those poor misfortunate gentlemen.

Merkin

This is such a tragic waste of innocent lives, it's so sad. RIP to the two old men.

Irishcrx

I Heart Internet wrote: »

How has that regime worked out for Russia??

It's a beacon of peace, traquility and law-abiding, non-alcoholic people?

So is their population and Russia has a lot of other problems that are leading to that. I'd imagine if their prisons were like Ireland the rates would be much much higher than they are now.

flutered

FutureGuy wrote: »

Masks. Lots and lots of masks.

as i have often heard somebody saying, its time to pull on the ballyclavas, (this how he pronounces it).

Fussgangerzone

Amalgam wrote: »

You're second guessing a failure of any initiative.

...

You need to place a 'burden' on ****ehawks. I'm not talking about prison. It has to be something that preoccupies their little minds. 'Where's me scraaaaatch..'

I see your point.

Personally, I think we have a lot of uninhabited islands we could make better use of.

Xenji

Xenji wrote: »

I did not make specifics about names, and I tried to leave it vague as per the rules here, I do not know the people who did this and never claimed to, but from other instances around town it is one of two groups of people and I am sure the Gardai are already well informed as to who these groups are.

Moving scum from our cities to the smaller towns has not eradicated this cancer on society but has just spread it further.
A lot of this transported scum was forced on a number of Mayo towns in the last two years.

Forced hard labour has a better chance of modifying this mentality.

Stinicker

The Death Penalty is the only answer to these type of people, Prison right now is like going on holidays and prison should mean atrocious conditions where you are lucky to get out alive, cram them in and feed them mulched newspaper, for the more serious offender one bullet to the brain is the cheapest solution. Until we change our justice system to a proper system of punishment then nothing will change and the only hope for justice in Ireland now is vigilantism, and this is a sad reflection on our society who has sided with the criminals for far too long.

Saab Ed

I've always been of the opinion that once you kill someone, in an intentional act of violence rather than an actual accident, then you are permanently removed from society. No cruelty, no extra hardship, just a cell in a prison till you die. Don't care how much it costs the state, you're gone and the rest of us are safer.

meoklmrk91

It takes a special kind of scumbag to attack an elderly person, it's literally starting to feel like the Wild West, every man for himself. I would be willing to bet that the perpetrators of this crime have a rap sheet as long as their arm, the justice system is leaving down the ordinary, decent people of Ireland. I know that America isn't the kind of country that you want to be looking at for tips on how to stop crime but we really need something like the three strikes system to get career criminals of the street and away from the rest of us.

I feel so sorry for those two men, and now the family that are left behind will have to go through the courts and hear every gruesome detail only for the murdering bastards to get a slap on the wrist.

Amalgam

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

It takes a special kind of scumbag to attack an elderly person..

Deaf and partially sighted too.

They must have known their attackers. It doesn't make much sense to kill someone like that. Even a scumbag will weigh up risk.

ScumLord

Saab Ed wrote: »

I've always been of the opinion that once you kill someone, in an intentional act of violence rather than an actual accident, then you are permanently removed from society. No cruelty, no extra hardship, just a cell in a prison till you die. Don't care how much it costs the state, you're gone and the rest of us are safer.

Might as well do the death penalty then. It's cheaper and there's no possibility of parole.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

ScumLord wrote: »

Might as well do the death penalty then. It's cheaper and there's no possibility of parole.

Thats great so long as you are 100% certain you are executing a guilty person, ever heard of a miscarraige of Justice?