Is Scotland British?

iDave · 09-07-2013 11:13AM #1

This is something I've been pondering recently. I know legally as being part of the UK they are British but are the Scots truly British?
My reasoning is, and I am open to correction on this by historians/eptymologists, is that the term Britain comes from the old Roman province of Brittania.
Britannia only included modern day England and Wales. The Pictish tribes north of Hadrians Wall in modern day Scotland were never conquered by Rome and therefore were never part of Britannia.
So if they were never part of Britannia is it right to refer to Scotland as being part of Britain?
Again I am open to correction if my history and terminology is incorrect.

maximoose · 09-07-2013 11:14AM

Yes.

mike65 · 09-07-2013 11:14AM

yes, until the people decide otherwise.

/thread

Prodigious · 09-07-2013 11:15AM

thread\

No

/thread

Dravokivich · 09-07-2013 11:15AM

Well, for one thing, it's full of Scots.

miamee · 09-07-2013 11:16AM

If you want real answers, try the History and Heritage forum

Jester252 · 09-07-2013 11:16AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Well, for one thing, it's full of Scots.

Damn Scots
They ruined Scotland.

tin79 · 09-07-2013 11:16AM

Google maps says yes. Thats all you need to know.

You can move on to ponder something else now.

I suggest a 9/11 conspiracy theory, legality of VRT or that fig roll thing.

mike65 · 09-07-2013 11:16AM

Prodigious wrote: »

thread\

No

/thread

In what way is Scotland not British right now? I mean in a legal provable way.

efb · 09-07-2013 11:17AM

Imagine if boards settled this? No need for the costly referendum

inforfun · 09-07-2013 11:17AM

Since Sunday afternoon it is even English

Lenin Skynard · 09-07-2013 11:18AM

They're scrotish.

Banjo String · 09-07-2013 11:21AM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

They're scrotish.

Load of balls

bnt · 09-07-2013 11:27AM

"Britain" doesn't mean anything specific on its own. Great Britain is the big island (Scotland, England & Wales), which "British Isles" is Great Britain plus Ireland and all the smaller islands.

In Geographical terms, then, Ireland is also "British", but I know that's not much liked here for political reasons ..!

Cienciano · 09-07-2013 11:30AM

It was the name for the island, not just up to hadrians wall.
And even if it wasn't back then, the island is definitely refered to as britain now. Maybe in the future Scotland won't be part of Britain politically and become independent, but at the moment, scotland is 100% british. Unless you're a Celtic fan and think it's actually Irish.

BraziliaNZ · 09-07-2013 11:36AM

If you go up there, especially around Edinburgh, you'll see how British they are compared to us, I really don't get this whole Irish/Scottish being the same thing people talk about. Glasgow people are like Irish people I think, but probably because tonnes of them descend from us.
My experience from living there was a far more dour, strict, extreeeeeeemely tight with money people than the Irish which seem like fun loving happy party animals compared to the Scotch.

iDave · 09-07-2013 11:41AM

Cienciano wrote: »

It was the name for the island, not just up to hadrians wall.

Ah thanks, I always assumed Britannia was just the name for the conquered territories.

dd972 · 09-07-2013 11:49AM

Yes, if you're a rabid Rangers fan in some housing scheme full of one eyed dogs, pubs with boarded up windows and a CCTV over the door and three piece suites and mattresses piled up outside houses.

Or some Alisdair-Farqhuar-MacKenzie who owns half of Perthshire and went to Oxford University.

For the overwhelming majority of Scots though, Scotland is Scottish and that's it.

OnTheCouch · 09-07-2013 11:57AM

Well they might put the whole debate to bed irrespective of history, should they vote to secede from the UK in next year's referendum. I don't think it will happen, but even the possibility is quite momentous I feel.

On an afterthought, I wonder what the reaction would have been had Andy Murray, after deservedly winning Wimbledon on Sunday, raised a Scottish flag in celebration? I would have had absolutely no problem with him doing so, but I suspect it would have gone down like a lead balloon with the Southern-dominated media.

I believe he is intelligent enough to know to avoid making controversial gestures like that at this stage, but again it's amusing to think of the reaction had he gone through with it.

everdead.ie · 09-07-2013 12:01PM

Scotland is British in the sense that the country is part of the Island of Britain, but the people are a mixture of British, Scottish, both and neither (immigrants). It is a personal choice people get to make much like in Northern Ireland.

topper75 · 09-07-2013 12:18PM

bnt wrote: »

In Geographical terms, then, Ireland is also "British", but I know that's not much liked here for political reasons ..!

As declared by God Himself in his book Geographicus Deus Magnus?

These 'geographers' who came up with the term were the idle wealthy who lived in 18th c. England. The Irish were never consulted in this. They were busy eking out an existence on small holdings, the rent for which was paid to absentee landlords across the sea - yeah the same wealthy chaps who hung around establishments such as the Royal Geographical Society and suchlike naming parts of the world to glorify themselves.

I like beautiful Britain but Ireland is no more part of the "British Isles" than Denmark is part of the Norwegian Peninsulas.

09-07-2013 12:22PM

inforfun wrote: »

Since Sunday afternoon it is even English

Can you cite when/where Andy Murray was referred to as English, I must have missed that one. I have heard of him being described as a British tennis player, which of course is correct, why he even won a gold medal for Britain at the London Olympics.

COYW · 09-07-2013 12:22PM

dd972 wrote: »

For the overwhelming majority of Scots though, Scotland is Scottish and that's it.

And British. They all collect their MBEs, CBEs etc. They will remain British until they decide otherwise.

An Coilean · 09-07-2013 12:22PM

bnt wrote: »

"Britain" doesn't mean anything specific on its own. Great Britain is the big island (Scotland, England & Wales), which "British Isles" is Great Britain plus Ireland and all the smaller islands.

In Geographical terms, then, Ireland is also "British", but I know that's not much liked here for political reasons ..!

Thats a bit of an anacronisim, its British and Irish Isles now.

everdead.ie · 09-07-2013 12:23PM

9959 wrote: »

Can you cite when/where Andy Murray was referred to as English, I must have missed that one. I have heard of him being described as a British tennis player, which of course is correct, why he even won a gold medal for Britain at the London Olympics.

The New York Times ran with it saying he was English poor Journalism.

bedrock#1 · 09-07-2013 12:24PM

CGP Grey explains....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10

09-07-2013 12:24PM

everdead.ie wrote: »

The New York Times ran with it saying he was English poor Journalism.

The New York Times is just a Canadian rag.

hognef · 09-07-2013 12:25PM

topper75 wrote: »

I like beautiful Britain but Ireland is no more part of the "British Isles" than Denmark is part of the Norwegian Peninsulas.

Partly because there's no such thing as the "Norwegian Peninsulas"...

everdead.ie · 09-07-2013 12:26PM

9959 wrote: »

The New York Times is just a Canadian rag.

You tell them that

COYW · 09-07-2013 12:29PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Thats a bit of an anacronisim, its British and Irish Isles now.

Contrary to every geographical reference out there. Go to 1:25 of that video for further proof.

dd972 · 09-07-2013 12:31PM

COYW wrote: »

And British. They all collect their MBEs, CBEs etc. They will remain British until they decide otherwise.

If a Scot said to me ''I'm Scottish and not British'', I'd accept that, what people identify with and how they perceive themselves is their personal business and not for others to dictate.

Is Scotland British?

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