Repossession of homes: what's the big deal?

My name is Mud · 05-07-2013 07:00PM

floggg wrote: »

To be honest it's not very easy to have much sympathy for you.

Maybe for your kids (if any) though not for the inconvenience of moving.

Taking personal jabs at people. Nice bloke you are.

You must be a landlord

poldebruin · 05-07-2013 07:14PM

It's not the (distressed) mortgage holders fault that the Banks were nationalised. The fact that the tax payers will now have to foot any bill incurred was not their decision. They took out a mortgage with a private bank. If they cannot pay, the bank were free to pursue the property, and whatever they can recoup through the courts - which is hard to do if the person has no assets.

In the meantime, many of those families will still need to be rehoused (through RA most likely) at taxpayers expense. 80,000 families living in penury for decades would still cost taxpayers and society as a whole.

Potatoeman · 05-07-2013 07:24PM

Brianna Thousands Palm wrote: »

But in reality property is a way of makingadditional income and rightly so. People need to understand housesare not rented out for the benefit of the tenant it's for the benefitof the landlord.

Personally I'd like to have a property or two in the future forletting as a sideline to my main work, but I would not allow a leaseany longer than a year for various reasons.

Well the state should protect their citizens from opportunistic landlords. If someone wants to get into this business then they should be competent and be able to afford the necessary issues that arise. It would be in the interest of the state to control this sector better (undeclared rents etc) and minimal standards.

I would really recommend you consider all the possibilities beforegetting into this business also getting a management company if you do. Thingswith tenants can go very sour if the landlord treats it as a hobby.

laoch na mona wrote: »

but people are in financialdifficulty through no fault of there own we can't say to these peoplethat their home is the price to be paid for the greed of the elite.Now I'm talking about family homes not mansions but ordinary houses.

this idea that they should just accept the situation that has beenthrust upon them allows the people who created this crisis to avoidtheir responsibility to the people paying for their mistakes

People are struggling because they failed to plan for a downturn or a drop in income. People that are the worst hit are those that over extended themselves. The term formany of these was 35 years and many didn't plan for the possibility of unemployment and were completely reliant on dual incomes. Even without the current crisis many didn't plan for increased interestrates or even children.

Femme_Fatale · 05-07-2013 07:25PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Losing "your" home really, really is not the end of the world.

"I'm all right, therefore everyone else is."

Although I do agree the bust is not ALL the banks' fault.

The preaching by people who only didn't buy because they were too young anyway, didn't have a family, couldn't afford it etc... to people in entirely different circumstances, is most tiresome though.

kristian12 · 05-07-2013 07:43PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

"I'm all right, therefore everyone else is."

Although I do agree the bust is not ALL the banks' fault.

The preaching by people who only didn't buy because they were too young anyway, didn't have a family, couldn't afford it etc... to people in entirely different circumstances, is most tiresome though.

Not all of us have been preaching simply saying its not everyone else's fault and we don't see why need to be doing more to keep a roof over others heads as well as our own family. I do have a family, I am old enough and i did buy so if i'm old enough to take on the responsibility of buying then i'm old enough to take the fall out if it all goes pear shaped. It's my debt and no-one twisted my arm to get it.

Frank Black · 05-07-2013 08:17PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

how about the bankers and the bond holders

A post this dumb doesn't deserve a reply.

Potatoeman · 05-07-2013 08:25PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

"I'm all right, therefore everyone else is."

Although I do agree the bust is not ALL the banks' fault.

The preaching by people who only didn't buy because they were too young anyway, didn't have a family, couldn't afford it etc... to people in entirely different circumstances, is most tiresome though.

Many people made an educated decision and didn't buy into the spin. We are a small country on the edge of Europe with low population density and many people were horrified at the exponential increases that turned the property market into a pyramid scheme.

05-07-2013 09:50PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Well the state should protect their citizens from opportunistic landlords. If someone wants to get into this business then they should be competent and be able to afford the necessary issues that arise. It would be in the interest of the state to control this sector better (undeclared rents etc) and minimal standards.

The state has no place in dealing with what a person does with their property. If you want to have control over your house buy it, otherwise tough luck.

BattleCorp · 05-07-2013 09:56PM

Whether the public like it or not, the banks have to repossess a certain number of houses.

If they don't repossess houses belonging to people that aren't paying their mortgage, then I won't pay my mortgage - simples.

What do you think would happen if repossessions didn't take place? Mass non payment of mortgages would happen. And then the country would really be fcuked.

There has to be consequences of not paying your debts.

take everything · 05-07-2013 10:36PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXqIbWacFRQ

The "Constance Markeivicz" guy, in case anyone missed it.
Jesus wept.

Edit: The guy behind nodding sagely makes it even better.

Gombeens through and through.

JimiTime · 05-07-2013 10:47PM

jr22 wrote: »

So who picks up the tab for the debt write-down?

Who picks up the debt when I ask her majesty to declare me bankrupt?

If we want to leave the heart out of this, forget about any social or human consequence and simply be cold about things, forgetting about the fact that those supposed to be looking after our interests didn't, and the wreckless behaviour of banks being one of the biggest contributing factors of the current mess, then consider this.

Family have boomtime mortgage, say €300000. Jobs are lost/cut. Cost of living, tax etc rise. Mortgage Interests rates rise etc. Mortgage becomes unsustainable.

1. They go to britain and give the keys to bank. Bank lose €300,000. Bank and government don't go by your rules about consequences, and are capitalised by tax payer to cover it. Family are left without the home etc.
2. A pragmatic deal is reached, where the mortgage is written down to a sustainable level (Some approaches could be debt for equity deals. Really, it just takes some imagination). Bank gets paid for a mortgage of, for example, €150,000, and family etc are not displaced from their home.

Meanwhile proper regulation is being put into place to prevent another housing bubble like only going on one persons wages in the household etc, and secure tenancy systems are put into place etc to give families PROPER alternative options etc (No matter what your preferences are, it is wholly unreasonable and unacceptable, not only for the sake of children, but also for the sake of community, to simply tell them that they'll just have to move at the landlords whim).

Of course, if you think it better to pick up the tab for €300,000 rather than €150,000, on the basis of it sticking in your craw that you perceive someones getting money off, then I think I understand your position better. I.E. Its a bitterness thing.

HansHolzel · 05-07-2013 11:23PM

take everything wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXqIbWacFRQ

The "Constance Markeivicz" guy, in case anyone missed it.
Jesus wept.

Edit: The guy behind nodding sagely makes it even better.

Gombeens through and through.

Constant Malkovich, I think.

jr22 · 05-07-2013 11:46PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Who picks up the debt when I ask her majesty to declare me bankrupt?

Easy. The people who actually pay their taxes and their debts to the bank who loaned you the money that you didn't pay back.

If we want to leave the heart out of this, forget about any social or human consequence and simply be cold about things, forgetting about the fact that those supposed to be looking after our interests didn't, and the wreckless behaviour of banks being one of the biggest contributing factors of the current mess, then consider this.

It's convenient to blame the behaviour of banks. You entered into a contract of your own free will and are now trying to weasel your way out of it because you gambled and lost. Do you think banks are supposed to have your best interest at heart? You can't leave the potential social and human consequences out of this because that is the basis on which a society functions. What the f*ck do you think will happen if no-one bothers to pay their debts?

Meanwhile proper regulation is being put into place to prevent another housing bubble like only going on one persons wages in the household etc, and secure tenancy systems are put into place etc to give families PROPER alternative options etc (No matter what your preferences are, it is wholly unreasonable and unacceptable, not only for the sake of children, but also for the sake of community, to simply tell them that they'll just have to move at the landlords whim).

Eh, good stuff. Good to see all the defenders of the debt dodgers have the kids and community's best interests at heart.

Responsible copped on people don't need a load of nanny state mothering, they can look after themselves for the most part by thinking things through in advance before running with the herd.

I left the country years ago because I was fed up with all the gombeens, gob****es and sheeple piling disaster on top of disaster and blaming everybody else when things go wrong.

I honestly thought there might be some hope of things improving to the point where we could seriously consider moving home but things are looking worse than ever right now with every Tom Dick and Harry trying all angles to get off the hook. This government is gutless. Repossessions have to start in earnest, that's the reality, no matter how unpopular.

If you made a mistake then f***ing accept the consequences. If you don't pay your mortgage, you shouldn't keep your house.

Dostoevsky · 06-07-2013 09:10AM

JimiTime wrote: »

Meanwhile proper regulation is being put into place to prevent another housing bubble like only going on one persons wages in the household

Do you, or anybody else, have a reference for this? While it would make huge sense to make such a regulation, it would reduce house prices drastically, even to a realistic level in Dublin.

I find it hard to believe Irish state policy regarding the property market would promote this. Seeing as it, via NAMA, is the largest investor in property on this island, it is in the interests of this state to - as depressing as this sounds - promote another property boom so it can offload these properties at a better price.

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 10:32AM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Do you, or anybody else, have a reference for this? While it would make huge sense to make such a regulation, it would reduce house prices drastically, even to a realistic level in Dublin.

I find it hard to believe Irish state policy regarding the property market would promote this. Seeing as it, via NAMA, is the largest investor in property on this island, it is in the interests of this state to - as depressing as this sounds - promote another property boom so it can offload these properties at a better price.

Reference for what? It doesn't happen, but it used to be a bit of an unwritten rule, and makes a lot of sense. I agree that it wont happen, as the government seem to want the house prices to 'recover' to crazy times, rather than learning a lesson and trying to stop such a thing.

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 11:14AM

jr22 wrote: »

Easy. The people who actually pay their taxes and their debts to the bank who loaned you the money that you didn't pay back.

Ah right, so its just a case that you don't have any idea of the problem. That makes sense now.

It's convenient to blame the behaviour of banks.

Ehh, no its not. This whole mess is distinctly INCONVENIENT!

You entered into a contract of your own free will and are now trying to weasel your way out of it because you gambled and lost.

Not at all. Maybe you wouldn't be so embittered if you didn't equate a family buying a home to someone going into Paddy Power. However, your gambling scenario WOULD actually apply to the people who were mostly responsible for the mess. I.E. Banks etc

Do you think banks are supposed to have your best interest at heart?

No. I believe government and regulators are.

You can't leave the potential social and human consequences out of this because that is the basis on which a society functions. What the f*ck do you think will happen if no-one bothers to pay their debts?

Hang on. So you are saying you WANT to consider the social and human consequences. I actually removed them for YOUR benefit, as it was obvious that it wasn't something that concerned you.

Eh, good stuff. Good to see all the defenders of the debt dodgers have the kids and community's best interests at heart.

You really have no idea

Its verging on incoherent.

Responsible copped on people don't need a load of nanny state mothering, they can look after themselves for the most part by thinking things through in advance before running with the herd.

Thats where you are wholly wrong. Regulation etc is not there to be a nanny state. It is there to protect people from bad practices. Your opinion is based nothing but assumptions and stereotypes about gamblers and unthinking sheep following the crowd.

I left the country years ago because I was fed up with all the gombeens, gob****es and sheeple piling disaster on top of disaster and blaming everybody else when things go wrong.

I think your thoughts about Irish people is an insight into why you are so bitter about all this. I don't know what happened to make you feel so angry, but IMO, it is leading you to a very unreasonable place.

I honestly thought there might be some hope of things improving to the point where we could seriously consider moving home but things are looking worse than ever right now with every Tom Dick and Harry trying all angles to get off the hook.

Again, all these terms like, 'Get off the hook', By 'get off the hook', you mean people who stand to lose their family homes having fallen victim to both a housing bubble crash, and global credit crunch hitting at the same time. Then Austerity after austerity, job cuts, wage cuts etc all falling at the same time. You have an issue with these people than saying, 'Hey, where is the justice in the institutions and people responsible etc being bailed out. Not only being bailed out, but bailed out by lumbering all the debt on my shoulders, a victim myself of the crash, further pushing me out.'

Ironically, the fact that you want to move home and are frustrated by this, reveals a real, 'Screw them, I want, I want'. An attitude you seem to lament in others. Thats the issue with a purely self centred unempathetic approach to life.

This government is gutless. Repossessions have to start in earnest, that's the reality, no matter how unpopular.

In certain circumstances, yes, but not with the cold attitude you espouse here.

If you made a mistake then f***ing accept the consequences. If you don't pay your mortgage, you shouldn't keep your house.

Again, that makes sense. It really does. But like i said, I pass by BOI, AIB, PTSB etc everyday, and they are all open for business. You may simply want to ignore everything in your frustration that you can't come home and capitalise on families having their homes taken away, but your absolute moral lesson on paying back debts in this rings hollow when you allow yourself to look at the whole picture, and the reality of what has gone on.

Dostoevsky · 06-07-2013 11:36AM

Very interesting developments in Iceland regarding debt forgiveness. Over on The Irish Times today OECD warns Iceland on overly broad debt forgiveness

It seems in Iceland they have given debt relief to everybody, and this is drawing OECD criticism:

“General debt relief – across the board – according to the studies that we’ve seen, and according to figures from the central bank, would benefit families that have no financial difficulties,” Patrick Lenain, an economist at the OECD, said in Reykjavik.
“In our view, the target should be families that have financial difficulties and are at risk of defaulting.”
The OECD urges a more limited approach, saying Iceland should instead raise interest rates and target relief only for financially distressed households.'

If the OECD is supporting debt relief for families in trouble, as it is above, then this is going to get very interesting. How can we teach idiots not to be idiots again if the consequence of their idiocy, massive debt, is written off?

Next time the banks are throwing money at me I'm going to accept it all, enjoy life, plead an inability to repay it and then wait around for some responsible people to bail me out. The losers are the winners, be they banks or the above citizens.

jr22 · 06-07-2013 12:26PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Ah right, so its just a case that you don't have any idea of the problem. That makes sense now.

Jimi, explain what you think happens when people don't pay their debts to a nationalised bank?

What happens to the debt? Tell me?

06-07-2013 12:59PM

If I can't pay rent, I get evicted. No one should be entitled to a home because they signed a piece of paper and can't afford it.

I still put most of the blame on the borrowers. It's all in the agreement they signed.

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 01:27PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Very interesting developments in Iceland regarding debt forgiveness. Over on The Irish Times today OECD warns Iceland on overly broad debt forgiveness

It seems in Iceland they have given debt relief to everybody, and this is drawing OECD criticism:

“General debt relief – across the board – according to the studies that we’ve seen, and according to figures from the central bank, would benefit families that have no financial difficulties,” Patrick Lenain, an economist at the OECD, said in Reykjavik.
“In our view, the target should be families that have financial difficulties and are at risk of defaulting.”
The OECD urges a more limited approach, saying Iceland should instead raise interest rates and target relief only for financially distressed households.'

If the OECD is supporting debt relief for families in trouble, as it is above, then this is going to get very interesting. How can we teach idiots not to be idiots again if the consequence of their idiocy, massive debt, is written off?

Next time the banks are throwing money at me I'm going to accept it all, enjoy life, plead an inability to repay it and then wait around for some responsible people to bail me out. The losers are the winners, be they banks or the above citizens.

I think the idiots, are those who for whatever reason, refuse to see the full picture of what has gone on, and indeed what will go on.

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 01:31PM

jr22 wrote: »

Jimi, explain what you think happens when people don't pay their debts to a nationalised bank?

What happens to the debt? Tell me?

I know, but its going to happen, and in fact IS happening. So, like I said, if we remove any heart and concience from it, and go with your cold approach, then what is better? That the debt be €300,000 multiplied by 100,000 and lots of families out of their homes, or it being €150,000 x 100,000 and lots of families keeping their homes?

jr22 · 06-07-2013 01:44PM

JimiTime wrote: »

I think the idiots, are those who for whatever reason, refuse to see the full picture of what has gone on, and indeed what will go on.

Enlighten us Jimi! Did the big bad developers/bankers do wrong? Should everyone in debt do the same thing now to get out of dodge?

JimiTime wrote: »

I know, but its going to happen, and in fact IS happening. So, like I said, if we remove any heart and concience from it, and go with your cold approach, then what is better? That the debt be €300,000 multiplied by 100,000 and lots of families out of their homes, or it being €150,000 x 100,000 and lots of families keeping their homes?

Did you pull those figures from your arse? :pac:

My family keeps their home by paying the rent when it's due. I've been unemployed in the past. I've never been on the dole. I've never missed paying my rent. If I did, I'd expect to be f*cked out on my ear. That's how it works and rightly so.

Should you get a free pass because you're a bit financially dim?

06-07-2013 01:52PM

im tired of people complaining about there houses if you cant pay it , tuff luck

so you lose your job , its not the bank fault

shruikan2553 · 06-07-2013 02:53PM

jr22 wrote: »

Should you get a free pass because you're a bit financially dim?

Seems to be the opinion of many. "I made a mistake help me out of it because it didnt work out for me"

Like you if I dont pay my rent I get thrown out and yet nobody seems to care. Maybe people should read a contract before signing it, oh no wait, the banks made people sign it if they wanted their families back safely so they had no choice really but to agree to it

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 06:58PM

jr22 wrote: »

Enlighten us Jimi! Did the big bad developers/bankers do wrong? Should everyone in debt do the same thing now to get out of dodge?

I see you are still avoiding the issue with your approach, in that you still wont look at the big picture and have avoided looking at how your 'just pay your f**ckin debt you stupid, gobsh1te gambling idiot people' approach has been blown out of the water by about 80 billion euro's.
In current circumstances, I would have everyone who has a loan with the banks in question stop paying their loans and withdraw their money until a real solution is put in place. I certainly wouldn't be worrying about seagulls in other countries being upset that they cannot swoop and capitalise on other peoples misery.

Did you pull those figures from your arse? :pac:

Yes I did. Its called giving an example to make a point.

My family keeps their home by paying the rent when it's due. I've been unemployed in the past. I've never been on the dole. I've never missed paying my rent. If I did, I'd expect to be f*cked out on my ear. That's how it works and rightly so.

Makes sense, but like I said, and you've readily avoided, I pass by BOI, PTSB, AIB etc daily, and they're all doing business. I understand the attraction of the simplicity you insist on. Its much easier when you don't have to think of all the complexities of the situation. 'You signed a contract, you must pay', makes things nice and simple, and actually sounds reasonable to those who don't want to think any more about things, or want to avoid any niggles in the conscience about wanting to buy a families repossessed home.

Should you get a free pass because you're a bit financially dim?

No. People who are victims of all of this nonsense, should be able to negotiate a debt writedown, be it debt for equity or whatever. It would just take a pragmatic, conscientious approach, and some imagination. Then, though people caught up in it all will never forget, It will still be the duty of government and regulators to put in place safeguards etc to prevent any such circumstance happening again.

JimiTime · 06-07-2013 07:02PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Seems to be the opinion of many. "I made a mistake help me out of it because it didnt work out for me"

Like you if I dont pay my rent I get thrown out and yet nobody seems to care. Maybe people should read a contract before signing it, oh no wait, the banks made people sign it if they wanted their families back safely so they had no choice really but to agree to it

If you lose your job, and cant pay your rent, you get rent allowance from the government.

Banks gambled and stoked the fires in this bubble, and the powers that be also stoked the fires. Then when it all went pear shaped, they were bailed out to the tune of billions, walked away with golden handshakes and golden pensions while others were burdened with the 80 billion as well as having their homes come into the crosshair. Some people have a bit of an issue with it, as there is a distinct lack of accountablity for those mainly responsible as well as continued reward, while joe bloggs is being told its all his fault the dosey tw@t.

One can only hope that ignorant morons don't win the day.

Almaviva · 06-07-2013 07:14PM

JimiTime wrote: »

If you lose your job, and cant pay your rent, you get rent allowance from the government.

Banks gambled and stoked the fires in this bubble, and the powers that be also stoked the fires. Then when it all went pear shaped, they were bailed out to the tune of billions, walked away with golden handshakes and golden pensions while others were burdened with the 80 billion as well as having their homes come into the crosshair. Some people have a bit of an issue with it, as there is a distinct lack of accountablity for those mainly responsible as well as continued reward, while joe bloggs is being told its all his fault the dosey tw@t.

One can only hope that ignorant morons don't win the day.

Accountability, who is at fault, and bankers walking away with golden handshakes is irrelevant. Frustrating to think about. But irrelevant to asking the whole of society to pay the bill of your 'debt writedown'. It not just changing a figure on a page - someone has to pay the difference.

Nate--IRL-- · 06-07-2013 07:21PM

JimiTime wrote: »

If you lose your job, and cant pay your rent, you get rent allowance from the government.

This applies to all. Why cant these people rent too?

Nate

jr22 · 06-07-2013 09:05PM

JimiTime wrote: »

In current circumstances, I would have everyone who has a loan with the banks in question stop paying their loans and withdraw their money until a real solution is put in place.

Great idea. If you can't beat the bankers/politicians/developers then join them, is it? :rolleyes:

I certainly wouldn't be worrying about seagulls in other countries being upset that they cannot swoop and capitalise on other peoples misery.

Seagulls

niggles in the conscience about wanting to buy a families repossessed home.

No niggle for me. I have a family, therefore any house I might buy would still be a family home, except I'd pay my mortgage. I've gone to the bother of making myself fairly recession proof by working my arse off and gaining a few different qualifications and skills, as has my wife.

People who are victims of all of this nonsense, should be able to negotiate a debt writedown, be it debt for equity or whatever. It would just take a pragmatic, conscientious approach, and some imagination. Then, though people caught up in it all will never forget, It will still be the duty of government and regulators to put in place safeguards etc to prevent any such circumstance happening again.

The safeguards should be that financial simpletons like yourself be given a Henry Hippo account and a calculator.

cock robin · 06-07-2013 09:49PM

The country is in the state its in because people borrowed money that they cannot now repay. There are some folk that I know that are in serious arrears and yet they have at least one holiday per year, a nice motor and a social life. Now don't get me wrong I am just commenting on those people that are within my social group and am in no way judging anyone. In fairness I really don't give a bollix But they whine on about banks and negative equity and suddenly they're all financial experts. Its a pity they didn't have such financial acumen when they borrowed shed loads of money based on one good income and a part time job in Spar or whatever. What gives anyone the right to force their neighbor to surrender a percentage of their dwindling income to fund the life style of these cretins. If you cannot afford the mortage then you can no longer remain in that home. So move or pay. Don't blame the Germans, the Goverment or the bank. You took the wonga blame yourself cos its your fault. Champagne taste lemonade money:pac::pac: I understand that many of you will disagree. But do you know what I don't give a fcuk. I am not getting into a debate about it. That is the reality of our current situation. If there are over "300,000" in arrears why are there not at least half that amount at these many marches. The future of our country was sacrificed by the badge brigade, those that had to have the latest beemer the latest nikes. I mean you had to cross the Sahara on a camel to compete with the holidays the fcukers took. Pay up shut up or move on, you whinging greedy creptaurs.

Repossession of homes: what's the big deal?

Comments