Repossession of homes: what's the big deal?

Dostoevsky

Regarding this story: Allsops property auction cancelled due to protest

Is somebody cannot pay their mortgage, why do they have a right to keep their house?

I have rented for years, and have no problem with it. I actually think it gives me more freedom and options. Why can't people who are living in homes that they cannot afford just accept that they have to move to something more affordable? They can then get on with their lives.

If the terms of the repossessions are at issue, then that's an entirely different issue and lenders need full legal protection against abuse by more powerful financial institutions. But some people seem, in principle, opposed to repossession of homes by the financial institutions which own them. This, to me, makes no sense. In fact, it is unfair to everybody else who has to pay for their accommodation.

Losing "your" home really, really is not the end of the world. You have your family and if they are in good health you have all the important things in life. That, surely, is your real home. There's no shame in renting, none at all.

Gongoozler

Yeah same here. Don't really understand it. Well I understand what people will say - bankers got us into this mess in the first place bla bla bla - but can't see how it makes sense to anyone with a brain.

Chucky the tree

Hardly surprising to see these absolute clowns in the middle of it..

People for Economic Justice, Defend Our Homes, Direct Democracy Ireland

stevedublin

FAMILIES with CHILDREN will be thrown out onto the STREET !!!!

hatrickpatrick

Gongoozler wrote: »

Yeah same here. Don't really understand it. Well I understand what people will say - bankers got us into this mess in the first place bla bla bla - but can't see how it makes sense to anyone with a brain.

How doesn't it make sense? We've pumped about 100bn into the banks. Us. The taxpayer. That blank cheque from us to the banks is more than the personal debts of probably every distressed homeowner combined. In my view, we owe them nothing further. If we'd never bailed them out I would have a different view, but my position is that these w@nkers still have their massive pay packets and pensions because every ordinary person in this country was forced against their will to pump several million euro apiece into these trainwrecks of industry, and that amount of money most likely covers everyone's personal debts a hundred times over.

ScumLord

For the likes of me it wouldn't be the end of the world but if you have a family it would cause huge upset, parents are always going to get upset at the thought of having to move their children away from friends and possibly school.

There's also the fact this is all the banks fault, they created the problem they now get to do a big land grab and can possibly get well over the value of the property by getting the majority of a mortgage on top of selling on the house.

I'm of the position that the banks should have every penny taken off them to home Irish citizens. It's the people that matter at the end of the day not the banks bottom line.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

The answer is Cake.
Let them eat cake!





Oh and people should also be allowed to go into Michelin Star restaurants, order all the expensive food and drink they want and then refuse to pay because....
...
..
.. The banks made us do it!

daveyeh

stevedublin wrote: »

FAMILIES with CHILDREN will be thrown out onto the STREET !!!!

And why can't they then RENT?

Dostoevsky

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How doesn't it make sense? We've pumped about 100bn into the banks. Us. The taxpayer. That blank cheque from us to the banks is more than the personal debts of probably every distressed homeowner combined. In my view, we owe them nothing further. If we'd never bailed them out I would have a different view, but my position is that these w@nkers still have their massive pay packets and pensions because every ordinary person in this country was forced against their will to pump several million euro apiece into these trainwrecks of industry, and that amount of money most likely covers everyone's personal debts a hundred times over.

But why should I, as a taxpayer who didn't try to keep up with the Joneses by buying a house during the "boom", pay for losses which other people made by buying a house during that time?

It's bad enough that my taxes are funding the idiocy of banks. Adding the idiocy of house purchasers to that burden exacerbates that injustice for those of us who lived within our means during the bubble.

hatrickpatrick

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm of the position that the banks should have every penny taken off them to home Irish citizens. It's the people that matter at the end of the day not the banks bottom line.

This exactly.
http://brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2013/06/30/100-things-ireland-could-have-got-for-the-price-of-one-anglo-irish-bank/

It's an absolute f*cking disgrace that we gave these cnuts even one single cent.

daveyeh

ScumLord wrote: »

There's also the fact this is all the banks fault.

ALL?

hatrickpatrick

Dostoevsky wrote: »

But why should I, as a taxpayer who didn't try to keep up with the Joneses by buying a house during the "boom", pay for losses which other people made by buying a house during that time?

It's bad enough that my taxes are funding the idiocy of banks. Adding the idiocy of house purchasers to that burden exacerbates that injustice for those of us who lived within our means during the bubble.

But you've already paid for it, that's the point. FF paid for it on your behalf in 2008. The amount they put into the banks is more than the combined amount of home debts (excluding commercial property) - all I'm proposing is that this bailout money goes to the people instead of into the pockets of the golden circle.

ScumLord

daveyeh wrote: »

ALL?

Yes all, they either knowingly lead this nation into ruin or were so incompetent at their job they ruined the country. A large group of people act like sheep, no matter how intelligent the individuals are once you create a popular movement it's very hard for other people not to join in when they see everyone else benefiting.

The country was duped or mismanaged, the people have a right to want the guilty party to pay the highest price. This is a nation of the people after all, the banks are just one of the tools we use, I don't see anything wrong with disposing of a broken tool.

What do banks do with repossessed gaffs?

shruikan2553

daveyeh wrote: »

And why can't they then RENT?

Rent? They arent some common students. You need a proper family home that you "own" so you can raise your children otherwise they will turn to crime or something. You cant put the stress of moving house on a child! The nearest house to rent is in another county by how people react.

I cant wait until I finish college so I can get debts I cant afford and then complain about how someone forced me to do it!

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

What do banks do with repossessed gaffs?

Sell them to the highest bidder as far as I know. Probably more property developers as the rest of us can't afford them.

Kidchameleon

daveyeh wrote: »

And why can't they then RENT?

Because they will still have to pay the negative equity

daveyeh

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes all, they either knowingly lead this nation into ruin or were so incompetent at their job they ruined the country. A large group of people act like sheep, no matter how intelligent the individuals are once you create a popular movement it's very hard for other people not to join in when they see everyone else benefiting.

The country was duped or mismanaged, the people have a right to want the guilty party to pay the highest price. This is a nation of the people after all, the banks are just one of the tools we use, I don't see anything wrong with disposing of a broken tool.

So the banks made people vote for Fianna Fail, the banks made Fianna Fail pursue disasterous policies and the banks made people buy over priced houses.

Can you see how you're wrong?

The people of this country voted for a fairy tale fanatasy where everyone was a millionaire and then got slapped in the face when the bull**** hit the fan. That's the reality scumlord.

daveyeh

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Rent? They arent some common students.

:eek:

daveyeh

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You need a proper family home that you "own" so you can raise your children otherwise they will turn to crime or something. You cant put the stress of moving house on a child!

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Specialun

Alot of people overpaid for houses and instead of blaming themselves they blame the government or property developers...its just an easy get out

daveyeh

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Because they will still have to pay the negative equity

Will bankruptcy not sort that out?

ScumLord

daveyeh wrote: »

So the banks made people vote for Fianna Fail, the banks made Fianna Fail pursue disasterous policies and the banks made people buy over priced houses.

Yes, essentially they did, through slick marketing and a round of golf with ministers they had the government singing from their hymn sheet, FF and the banks lead this country to ruin, not that FG wouldn't have done the same thing given half the chance.

Can you see how you're wrong?

Nope.

The people of this country voted for a fairy tale fanatasy where everyone was a millionaire and then got slapped in the face when it bull**** hit the fan. That's the reality scumlord.

They bought into a fantasy. They were told by experts, their elected officials and the local bank manager that they were crazy not to jump on the bandwagon. Everyone at the time bought into the fantasy because they're not experts, the banks and governments played on our ignorance.

daveyeh

Specialun wrote: »

Alot of people overpaid for houses and instead of blaming themselves they blame the government or property developers...its just an easy get out

Like angry children flinging their ****e in a temper.

'How could it be my fault? I'm not a moron, it must be someone elses fault. Where's my pitchfork?'

who_me

daveyeh wrote: »

And why can't they then RENT?

Because - assuming they're in NEGATIVE EQUITY, won't they still have to pay the SHORTFALL in their MORTGAGE?

(edit - oops.. already answered above)

daveyeh

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes, essentially they did, through slick marketing and a round of golf with ministers they had the government singing from their hymn sheet, FF and the banks lead this country to ruin, not that FG wouldn't have done the same thing given half the chance.

FF or FG, same difference, but it the people who vote them in.

Dostoevsky

ScumLord wrote: »

There's also the fact this is all the banks fault, they created the problem

First, this is not "all" the banks' fault - conscious, intelligent people bought houses at inflated prices. They share at least a lot of that responsibility for their own predicament. As if to highlight their responsibility, many people chose not buy. They are not in this trouble, banks or no banks.

ScumLord wrote: »

they now get to do a big land grab and can possibly get well over the value of the property by getting the majority of a mortgage on top of selling on the house.

This is the sort of thing which could well happen - I'd say it's likely. However, that is for the politicians and people generally to ensure such an injustice doesn't happen. If that's what this campaign were against, I would support it wholeheartedly.

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm of the position that the banks should have every penny taken off them to home Irish citizens. It's the people that matter at the end of the day not the banks bottom line.

And what of those of us who pay for our own homes? Should we be punished for being responsible, because giving free accommodation to people who bought during the bubble does precisely that.

daveyeh

ScumLord wrote: »

They bought into a fantasy. They were told by experts, their elected officials and the local bank manager that they were crazy not to jump on the bandwagon. Everyone at the time bought into the fantasy because they're not experts, the banks and governments played on our ignorance.

Buyer beware. Just because someone wears a suit and an easy smile, doesn't mean you should trust them. In fact the opposite is true.

JJJJNR

OP as a renter are you not worried about rental prices going through the roof ? the more houses that are repossessed the more people go into rented accommodation, there will be a huge demand and then higher rents.. these houses are being snapped up by the people that probably got the country into this mess in the first place, why is the government prepared to watch these families loose their homes, after a couple of years of missed payments, when the likes of Johnny Ronan gets to charge huge rents on office blocks and at the same time get his debts written off..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/johnny-ronan-wins-820000-rent-case-against-medical-council-29272946.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ritz-sold-for-1m-and-debts-wiped-29313836.html

Another write off

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/jurys-inn-hotel-chain-gets-debt-writedown-of-330m-from-lenders-29193400.html

daveyeh

who_me wrote: »

Because - assuming they're in NEGATIVE EQUITY, won't they still have to pay the SHORTFALL in their MORTGAGE?

(edit - oops.. already answered above)

BTW, my capitals were in response to previously used capitals, just as yours were.

Boombastic

daveyeh wrote: »

Like angry children flinging their ****e in a temper.

'How could it be my fault? I'm not a moron, it must be someone elses fault. Where's my pitchfork?'

It was repossessed, you can rent one from me if you like

who_me

I don't think "mortgage defaults for everyone" is a fair or practical idea. But it's a very twisted scenario if people are losing their homes because - in part - of the additional financial drain of the bank bailout, and could have their homes repossessed by the self same bank.

So, if the bank lent recklessly, it gets bailed out and takes possession of the home.
If a person borrowed recklessly, they pay increased taxes and lose their homes.

Never mind "fair", how is that logical?

ScumLord

Dostoevsky wrote: »

First, this is not "all" the banks' fault - conscious, intelligent people bought houses at inflated prices. They share at least a lot of that responsibility for their own predicament. As if to highlight their responsibility, many people chose not buy. They are not in this trouble, banks or no banks.

I do blame the banks most of all, people didn't know they were buying houses at inflated prices, the majority view was that it would continue and there was very, very little opposition to that viewpoint. The bankers were the experts, they either knew what they were doing and are criminals or were inept and should be removed from their jobs.


I'll put it this way, the majority of people that use computers haven't the first clue how they work, they don't know any programming language and they couldn't name the parts inside their PCs. If I'm repairing someones PC I can't expect them to know what went wrong or how I'll fix it, they just have to trust I'm the expert and I know what I'm doing. If I mess up their PC it's my fault, it doesn't matter that they let me do it. I came with good recommendations from everybody, even the Taoiseach said that if you don't use me you should just kill yourself for being so stupid. I gave you my guarantee I was going to make everything better.

Now that you're PC is fecked you have to pay me because my reputation got ruined and no one wants to hire me anymore and I get to keep your PC.

And what of those of us who pay for our own homes? Should we be punished for being responsible, because giving free accommodation to people who bought during the bubble does precisely that.

I'm not talking about taxpayers paying anything extra, we're already paying out money to the banks, stop that craic, make banks give extended payment options to customers or simply put a halt on the payments until the people get jobs.

daveyeh wrote: »

Buyer beware. Just because someone wears a suit and an easy smile, doesn't mean you should trust them. In fact the opposite is true.

Well we know that now.

daveyeh

ScumLord wrote: »

Well we know that now.

Now???

Why didn't people know this before!! It's plain simple common sense. I think people were blinded by their own greed and chose to believe the ****e from the politicans/estate agents/bankers/media and the so called experts (with their own agenda).

jr22

.....Once a decent start is made on the repossessions, house prices will fall to a realistic level and people who have been waiting to buy can do so, nice and cheaply, maybe even mortgage free!

Specialun

daveyeh wrote: »

Like angry children flinging their ****e in a temper.

'How could it be my fault? I'm not a moron, it must be someone elses fault. Where's my pitchfork?'

Has to be a rusty pitchfork

Dostoevsky

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But you've already paid for it, that's the point. FF paid for it on your behalf in 2008. The amount they put into the banks is more than the combined amount of home debts (excluding commercial property) - all I'm proposing is that this bailout money goes to the people instead of into the pockets of the golden circle.

That bailout money is mostly spent. Even if it weren't, morally and rationally why should taxes from the rest of us be used to bail out people who followed the crowd during the bubble and gambled on the house of cards not collapsing?

It makes no sense. I propose we leave private debts between Irish citizens and financial institutions private, rather than publicise the losses of yet another group of misguided, greedy people (people did not need to spend €500k on a home - they thought prices would go up and they'd make a profit. They didn't and now they're pleading the béal bocht).

Guy:Incognito

Seems they neednt have bothered with the bits at the end of the ads like "warning , your home may be at risk if you do not keep up payments " because people just whinge and moan that it shouldnt apply to them.

kristian12

I never understood this "must buy my own big house or i am a lower class person" mentality. I know of families with 1 child buying a 4 bedroomed house as their first home just because they could. Well i'm sorry but in my opinion thats just as stupid as the bankers who told you it couldn't go wrong. Surely a bit of common sense from both sides was all it took.

If you can't afford the mortgage then the bank has no option but to repossess because according to the arguments about the ordinary public bailing them out the bank doesn't own your house the rest of us do and why should you live in a house i partly own mortgage free if i have to pay to live in my own house.

Pkiernan

You all have to remember that left wing loonies don't have to pay for their houses.
Why should they after all. Its not their fault they took on mortgages they can't pay.

Don't worry you last lefties - just take more tax from me so you can live consequence free. Sure that'd be grand.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

There's also the fact this is all the banks fault

Government's fault
Govt cheerled the property bubble, govt messed with the rates, govt insisted on the bailout
Other than people and the banks colluding to get mortgages they couldn't afford

mikeym

Some of them simply just abandoned the soon to be repossessed home and left the country.

Gatling

I remember one of the pat Kenny TV debates last year or the year before even ,
A lady in the audience complaining about the banks getting bailed out yet herself who gave up a very well paid job and became an amateur property developer bought some land and built somes houses after the collapse her land is worth next to nothing and she can't sell the houses " why am I not being bailed out " questioned did you have any experiance in property development before you gave up the well paid job "No" expecting sympathy

As much as the banks are to blame to a limited degree personal greed and keeping up with the Jones is more to blame ,nobody is willing to accept personal responsibility for there own situations

Dostoevsky

Pkiernan wrote: »

You all have to remember that left wing loonies don't have to pay for their houses.
Why should they after all. Its not their fault they took on mortgages they can't pay.

Don't worry you last lefties - just take more tax from me so you can live consequence free. Sure that'd be grand.

I doubt there are many "left wing loonies" as you so put it in the best tradition of the British tabloids who bought homes for €500k plus during the bubble - Tom Darcy from Malahide certainly doesn't strike me as one. It's more a case of people chancing their arms looking for government intervention to bail them out of their private debts and to put those private debts on to the rest of the Irish taxpayer. Alas for them, the government, their government, only bails out rightwing corporate parasites who are too big to fail. No small fry need apply. You know, corporate socialism, the biggest socialism of them all which no doubt you're quite happy with.

But nice scapegoating. Now, don't you have a deadline for tomorrow's edition?

Agricola

Wouldnt be a big deal if the state hadnt bailed these banks out for billions of euro. So now that we've kept them afloat, we must help them to return to "profitability" aka "the old days of champagne and caviar" by swallowing their increasing charges and smiling as they seek to turf people out of their homes who are already under huge pressure due to circumstances that are directly related to the stupidity of these same banks. Fúck that!
The people of this country were shafted by their own government who themselves were shafted by the EU back in 2008. We did them and their precious euro a favour. Now they can return that favour by actually trying to resolve the mortgage crisis with debt write offs.

hatrickpatrick

daveyeh wrote: »

So the banks made people vote for Fianna Fail, the banks made Fianna Fail pursue disasterous policies and the banks made people buy over priced houses.

Can you see how you're wrong?

The people of this country voted for a fairy tale fanatasy where everyone was a millionaire and then got slapped in the face when the bull**** hit the fan. That's the reality scumlord.

Firstly I didn't, I didn't have the vote as I was too young. Secondly not everyone took out mortgages they couldn't afford, some of them have seen persistent interest rises while incomes have been depleting. Thirdly, FF lied about what they were doing and so did the banks, and they should be punished for that. It's a form of fraud, voter and financial respectively.

This country would be in a far better shape IMO if everyone stopped pedalling the "we brought this on ourselves" line and instead adopted a no nonsense approach to corruption. The fact that Seanie's trial may not now go ahead is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Sure, punish ordinary homeowners who lost their jobs because of his behavior and thus now can't afford their higher repayments from banks which money was taken out of their pocket to pay for, and let Seanie walk - it would appear that this is now "The Irish Way". :mad:

hatrickpatrick

Dostoevsky wrote: »

That bailout money is mostly spent. Even if it weren't, morally and rationally why should taxes from the rest of us be used to bail out people who followed the crowd during the bubble and gambled on the house of cards not collapsing?

It shouldn't, but if we're paying for multi millionaires who gambled and lost and NOT paying for ordinary people who got f*cked over, we're living in a very sick society. It has to be either none or both - I'm not ok with seeing the golden circle get a bailout but not a struggling family who've lost their jobs and are being hit with higher fees from the banks. "All men are created equal" as the US declaration of independence goes - either both should get help or neither. Otherwise we're accepting that some people's welfare is more important than others, and I simply refuse to accept that and will fight it tooth and nail.

My name is Mud

Dostoevsky wrote: »

There's no shame in renting, none at all.

No shame in renting, but as this is Ireland where renting is all short term crapola, it makes things like bargaintown mattresses and damp flats a thing of reality.

Also, there is feck all security for your rented 'family' home.

Im saying this as a person that has to move from their rented house because the landlord's receiver is selling up, and effectively kicking us out.

We should have a rental market like our European counterparts

JimiTime

Dostoevsky wrote: »

But why should I, as a taxpayer who didn't try to keep up with the Joneses by buying a house during the "boom", pay for losses which other people made by buying a house during that time?

It's bad enough that my taxes are funding the idiocy of banks. Adding the idiocy of house purchasers to that burden exacerbates that injustice for those of us who lived within our means during the bubble.

The bolded part truly saddens me, as its such a common train of ignorant thought. Usually its made by people who during the boom weren't in positions where thinking about a secure home needed to be considered. All of a sudden, they look back in hindsight and think its because they were simply foresightful that they didn't buy homes.

Consider this. Ireland has no secure tennancy for people who earn average wages. SO, when it comes to being married and looking to start a family, but earning what the government believe to be too much for any social housing, then there are 2 options. Private Rent, where you are at the behest of your landlord in terms of them deciding to sell the house or move themselves or a relative etc in (Somthing that happened A LOT during the boom. I had friends with kids having to move numerous times within a 4 year period due to the Landlords selling etc), or Mortgage.

So by all means have the attitude of 'Im alright jack', it is afterall very much the capitalist mentality, but could you at least have the good taste to realise that it wasn't just about keeping up with the Jones'. Believe me, I HATED the thought of a mortgage, but we made the decision that we thought was the best one available for our family by getting one, as it was the most secure option available for our children as we saw it at the time. THEN, the credit crunch happened at the same time the bubble burst etc, and all went pear shaped. When we see the absolute criminal behaviour of the banks, and the absolute ineptitude of our government and regulator, then I think any intelligent person can see the injustice.

JimiTime

My name is Mud wrote: »

No shame in renting, but as this is Ireland where renting is all short term crapola, it makes things like bargaintown mattresses and damp flats a thing of reality.

Also, there is feck all security for your rented 'family' home.

Im saying this as a person that has to move from their rented house because the landlord's receiver is selling up, and effectively kicking us out.

We should have a rental market like our European counterparts

Thank God someone knows the story in relation to renting with a family in mind!

DebDynamite

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Firstly I didn't, I didn't have the vote as I was too young. Secondly not everyone took out mortgages they couldn't afford, some of them have seen persistent interest rises while incomes have been depleting.

Interest rates are at an all-time low