Is blindsiding someone acceptable?

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 07:12AM

Saw something similar in a pub one night, this guy was shouting and getting in peoples faces as they were coming in and leaving the bar.

He started abusing one particular couple who were just trying to get past him and when he pushed the man he got a haymaker for his trouble.

Loudmouths like that deserved to get dropped.

Duck's hoop · 03-07-2013 07:49AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Saw something similar in a pub one night, this guy was shouting and getting in peoples faces as they were coming in and leaving the bar.

He started abusing one particular couple who were just trying to get past him and when he pushed the man he got a haymaker for his trouble.

Loudmouths like that deserved to get dropped.

Really could not be any less similar.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2013 08:01AM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Really could not be any less similar.

Both cases a loudmouth getting in innocent peoples faces who didn't want trouble....

Similar enough for me.

Duck's hoop · 03-07-2013 08:08AM

Yer man says nothing and we don't know who's done what before the vid starts.

Greenmachine · 03-07-2013 08:30AM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Imagine I see somebody attacking a person who is trying not to get drawn into a fight (perhaps because he has no great ability to deal with the bully). Imagine further that I would like to defend the innocent party. Take my word for it that I have no talent for fisticuffs. So I should step in, put up my fists, and get the crap beaten out of me to satisfy your idea of honourable behaviour?

No way. I don't want your respect if that is what I have to do to earn it.

Just remembered an incident from a fee years ago. A guy was sitting downstairs minding his own business at this point. (Some point earlier he had asked someone to stop smoking)

About 20 minutes into the journey 2 guys come down to confront him. Actually one looking for a fight. Demanding an apology from the guy who had moved downstairs. Friend of the guy who was smoking asking for the apology. The smoker in toe not actually looking for, realising his free was being a prick. The bully kept trying to sit next to the guy who had been sitting downstair to corner him. The poor guy looked like he would not harm a fly timid as they come.The seated guy begged to be cue a scuffle to the floor and a broken beam on the bus. :pac: The guy who wanted to be left alone dominated
The agressor was dragged away by his embarassed friend. He managed to break and tried to sucker missed and received a side swipe in defence. I can honestly say I was beaming when I heard the aggressors jaw crack.

OnTheCouch · 03-07-2013 11:59AM

MagicMarker wrote: »

They're all pretty much gob****es in that video.

FTA69 wrote: »

Maybe, but in my experience of dealing with these the person who starts throwing slaps (of any variety) needs to be dealt with immediately or else an escalation is pretty much guaranteed. Fights are often like fires and spread very quickly.

As MagicMarker says, no one really comes out of the video well. We can't tell what went on beforehand, but from what we do see:

Man with big hair clearly is being belligerent, slaps one guy in the face, walks around with this amateurish-looking boxing stance and looks to be picking fights with individuals who would rather not get involved. He then jabs one of them in the face, not a major blow, but still an assault.

The man with the light grey T-shirt who, from his body language appears to want to get involved in the action from the start, as at one point he seems to tell his friend he's going to do something. He then unleashes a strong punch to the jaw of the initial aggressor with enough force to knock him out and potentially cause serious injury either from the connection itself or the fall. In a large part this is due to the sucker punch nature of the blow.

Subsequently, the man who received the initial jab in the face and appeared to be a pacifist, then kicks the prone man on the ground, which in my eyes is just as scummy, if not more so than the aggressive behaviour of the now unconscious man.

Plus the onlookers, as soon as the man goes down, everyone gets out their cameras, whereas they were too scared to do anything before. Talk about human vultures.

Now I'd have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who goes around picking fights in a situation like this. The phrase 'lie down with dogs get up with fleas' comes to mind. It is also true that if someone clearly doesn't want to fight like in the video, then this will give the bully huge encouragement and his behaviour will become more and more threatening.

What is also true is what FTA69 says above. There is something about fights which unleashes the primitive, primal nature of human beings, especially if you introduce the mob mentality into the equation. I am actually surprised more people didn't kick the man on the ground. So once a fight starts, they can escalate extremely quickly and become quite dangerous, as many people will often get caught up in them either voluntarily or as unfortunate bystanders.

That is why doormen are employed, as someone like this who goes around picking on innocent people can be an absolute nightmare for those who go out on a night just to be peaceful and have a good time. Now obviously the confrontation here took place outside, so possibly the doorstaff felt that they didn't need to get involved as it was no longer on their premises. However, I think the ideal thing would have been for someone to restrain this man and forcefully remove him from the area, possibly the police, because unfortunately violent incidents tend to spread like wildfire and no one really comes out of these situations looking good.

OnTheCouch · 03-07-2013 12:00PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

Just remembered an incident from a fee years ago. A guy was sitting downstairs minding his own business at this point. (Some point earlier he had asked someone to stop smoking)

About 20 minutes into the journey 2 guys come down to confront him. Actually one looking for a fight. Demanding an apology from the guy who had moved downstairs. Friend of the guy who was smoking asking for the apology. The smoker in toe not actually looking for, realising his free was being a prick. The bully kept trying to sit next to the guy who had been sitting downstair to corner him. The poor guy looked like he would not harm a fly timid as they come.The seated guy begged to be cue a scuffle to the floor and a broken beam on the bus. :pac: The guy who wanted to be left alone dominated
The agressor was dragged away by his embarassed friend. He managed to break and tried to sucker missed and received a side swipe in defence. I can honestly say I was beaming when I heard the aggressors jaw crack.

I wouldn't normally say this, but could you re-write this post please? It seems like a very interesting story but I just can't make sense of it.

wandatowell · 03-07-2013 12:04PM

Was he taken away in handcuffs after?

lol stupid b@stard

General General · 03-07-2013 12:10PM

Zen65 wrote: »

I have to disagree. The drunkard was being disorderly, but not so aggressive that he was likely to cause serious injury. When he hit the guy in the black T-shirt at 00:25 it was nothing more than a jab and did not result in serious injury (maybe a black eye the next day). He did not attempt a second punch on the same guy.

The knock-out punch was, however, delivered with near-lethal force, which was disproportionate to the nuisance being caused and was itself an unwarranted escalation. It was the kind of blow which could result in instant death, which this muppetry did not deserve.

In a situation where the aggressor was not likely to cause serious harm, but was simply being a dick, avoidance or de-escalation is the best option. Confrontation of any sort will escalate the situation, which might then result in harm to the would-be hero.

In a society that thinks of "Chuck Norris" as a role model, this kind of behaviour might win a whoop of appreciation from the crowd, but it is loutish. The real Chuck Norris would not condone it.

Z

Escalation from no hitting to hitting at all is pronounced.. nothing more than a jab, did not result in serious injury, maybe a black eye the next day, he did not attempt a second punch "on the same guy"... seriously, you think this jabbing someone who is not attacking you but backing off is not a major escalation?

Maybe you've been hit too many times in the head region. You seem to think you're a spokesperson for Chuck Norris.

Mr.David · 03-07-2013 12:13PM

Blay wrote: »

If you're big enough to think you can floor him in one shot, you're big enough to do it face to face.

Yeah, but what if the guy didn't think he was big enough to floor him face to face? And so didn't want to risk getting his head kicked in and decided to end it with a sly punch? From the point of view of self preservation it could well have been the better option.

Of course its best to walk away, but it didn't look like a feasible option.

Yer man was being a total cock, doesn't really deserve a sporting approach if you ask me!

shruikan2553 · 03-07-2013 12:38PM

From the video a guy is trying to start a fight, other guys arent interested and someone puts him in his place. If you want a fair or honourable fight you enter martial arts competition, people only care about a fight being fair when they have lost.

If someone wants to start a fight with me for no reason then I will end it by ensuring that I will be safe. Restraining is easier said than done and whats to stop a friend from joining in. Best to get the first one out of the fight so if any friends want to join in you have 1 less to deal with.

Frank Black · 03-07-2013 12:38PM

Article in today's IT regarding 'one punch killings;.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/eugene-moloney-death-one-punch-killings-becoming-increasingly-common-1.1450752

About 20 people in the north have been killed in this manner since 2004 (apparently we don't keep statistics in the Republic on this).

The incident portrayed in the video could easily have resulted in the death of that guy, either from the punch or the fall.
Sure he was being a drunken knob - but who here has never acted in a 'knob-ish' way when drunk before?
Does he deserve to die for his behaviour? - absolutely not.

The guy who punches him is a prick of the highest order and a coward and is lucky not to be a murderer as well.

shruikan2553 · 03-07-2013 12:42PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Article in today's IT regarding 'one punch killings;.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/eugene-moloney-death-one-punch-killings-becoming-increasingly-common-1.1450752

About 20 people in the north have been killed in this manner since 2004 (apparently we don't keep statistics in the Republic on this).

The incident portrayed in the video could easily have resulted in the death of that guy, either from the punch or the fall.
Sure he was being a drunken knob - but who here has never acted in a 'knob-ish' way when drunk before?
Does he deserve to die for his behaviour? - absolutely not.

The guy who punches him is a prick of the highest order and a coward and is lucky not to be a murderer as well.

Difference between a drunken knob and a violent drunken knob. You cant expect to just have a punch at some people and expect no risk to yourself.

FTA69 · 03-07-2013 01:02PM

Zen65 wrote: »

(However I find the reference to the sexual orientation of the guy who was punched in the face to be unhelpfu . . . . oh wait, this is After Hours!)

I only brought up because the guy who got knocked out obviously fancies himself as a bit of a boxer, some sort of "hard case" hopping around like Roy Jones Jr; and the person he assaults is an effeminate gay man who wouldn't knock snow off a rope. In other words the fact he chose to hit someone he preceived as not being a threat to him or able to fight back. The worst of cowardice.

Incidentally, the aggressor here did not 'get a hiding' - he was knocked out with one punch. That punch was delivered with substantial force - it was a "haymaker" round swing with the puncher moving forward at the time to increase the transfer of momentum (and as a karate instructor I know when a punch is thrown hard). The fall to the ground could result in a fatal head injury in that instance.

Yeah it was a hard dig but it was the fact he banged your man's jaw that resulted in him getting KO'd. If the punch was a few inches higher your man would'nt have been knocked out at all. It's the fall to the ground that usually causes the subsequent death and to be honest this can occur after a rugby tackle, a fall, a bit of wrestling or even someone just losing their balance after taking a jab.

General General · 03-07-2013 01:03PM

Frank Black wrote: »

Article in today's IT regarding 'one punch killings;.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/eugene-moloney-death-one-punch-killings-becoming-increasingly-common-1.1450752

About 20 people in the north have been killed in this manner since 2004 (apparently we don't keep statistics in the Republic on this).

The incident portrayed in the video could easily have resulted in the death of that guy, either from the punch or the fall.
Sure he was being a drunken knob - but who here has never acted in a 'knob-ish' way when drunk before?
Does he deserve to die for his behaviour? - absolutely not.

The guy who punches him is a prick of the highest order and a coward and is lucky not to be a murderer as well.

Will no one think of the poor drunkard looking to let everyone know he thinks he's the boss???

jobeenfitz · 03-07-2013 01:06PM

Yer man who ended up on the ground could definitely have been seriously injured. Maybe that punch will teach him not to be such a pr1ck. Was a sly punch all right but hard to sympathise with the trouble maker.

castletownman · 03-07-2013 01:08PM

When the opposition are on my 20 yard line, I fully expect my offensive tackle to blind-side the QB*

*may have mis-understood the thread title

washiskin · 03-07-2013 01:19PM

Anyone who lifts their foot in a fight is a coward. :mad:

jugger0 · 03-07-2013 01:25PM

He should of done it like this guy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNV4859sGQ

rubadub · 03-07-2013 01:28PM

Blay wrote: »

if you're unwilling to do that it's because you know you'd have your head kicked in unless you have the upper hand.

Yes that would be one good reason to blindside somebody.

Blay wrote: »

It's a cheap shot no matter which way you cut it, if someone stood up and got beaten down I'd think more of them than someone who blindsided another guy. If you're big enough to think you can floor him in one shot, you're big enough to do it face to face.

This makes no sense to me. I expect I could floor loads of lads who would most certainly injure me if I challenged them face to face, I could probably knock out some pro MMA fighter. So I am certainly not "big enough" to do it face to face.

If some massive MMA fighter is beating the crap out of my mate by your rules I should not even think of intervening.

If some weak lad stood up and got beaten down, I would think he is an utter idiot, and think very lowly of him for not having the intelligence to blindside him instead.

If you saw a massive pitbull savaging a child and had a stick, would you wait until the pitbull recognised you were there before hitting him? have to give him fair warning after all, it would be cowardly otherwise.

FTA69 · 03-07-2013 01:30PM

jugger0 wrote: »

He should of done it like this guy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNV4859sGQ

Mexicans sure can box!

FTA69 · 03-07-2013 01:30PM

washiskin wrote: »

Anyone who lifts their foot in a fight is a coward. :mad:

Why?

Ruudi_Mentari · 03-07-2013 01:32PM

Those clean cut young men had their heads screwed on and made the right decision. When a guy is jumped up like that someone has to take him out eventually

Zen65 · 03-07-2013 01:35PM

FTA69 wrote: »

..... and the person he assaults is an effeminate gay man who wouldn't knock snow off a rope. In other words the fact he chose to hit someone he preceived as not being a threat to him or able to fight back.

Equating his behaviour (which you think is effeminate) to his sexual persuasion is just perpetuating an unfair bias. Many men with 'effeminate' behaviour are completely straight and many men who are gay are very 'manly' in their behaviour. You could have described him by what you know, not by what you judge of him. We all know he was the guy in the black top.

Z

03-07-2013 01:37PM

It's a pretty dickish thing to do, but unfortunately, if you act like a dick, there's probably another dick around, to call you on your dickishness.

What would have happened if the guy with the afro had actually goaded the other guy into a fight, and ended up seriously injuring him?

Afro guy also cheap shotted that other fella, so he's not in much position to complain.

Zen65 · 03-07-2013 01:37PM

washiskin wrote: »

Anyone who lifts their foot in a fight is a coward. :mad:

???

This insight puts a whole new slant on those Bruce Lee movies. The little coward!!

Z

Frank Black · 03-07-2013 01:39PM

washiskin wrote: »

Anyone who lifts their foot in a fight is a coward. :mad:

What about a kick-boxing fight?

Zen65 · 03-07-2013 01:43PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah it was a hard dig but it was the fact he banged your man's jaw that resulted in him getting KO'd. If the punch was a few inches higher your man would'nt have been knocked out at all. It's the fall to the ground that usually causes the subsequent death and to be honest this can occur after a rugby tackle, a fall, a bit of wrestling or even someone just losing their balance after taking a jab.

That's an interesting argument.

So, if you push somebody in front of a moving train, it's the train rather than your push which is responsible for their death?

And sure in any event, a person could end up in front of a train when they're out jogging near a level crossing, so let's not take this out of context?

Z

Dave! · 03-07-2013 01:45PM

My rule is simple: you assault someone unprovoked, then gentlemen's rules go out the window. Punches in the nuts, biting, whatever - you deserve it.

TheGunns · 03-07-2013 01:49PM

The other guy was acting the muppet, deserved it. Anyone who has ever been in a fight or a similar situation will know that all rules go out the window once someone starts on another who wants nothing to do with it

Is blindsiding someone acceptable?

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