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The banks are screwing over current account holders, and here's why...

  • 30-06-2013 12:35PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ...because we let them.

    AIB & Bank of Ireland, the two "pillar banks" (hah) of Ireland as we know have been raising their fees at regular intervals over the last couple of years, slowly bringing everyone into the loop so you will pay current account fees no matter what your circumstances. BoI who were initially insistent that they were just trying to combat people who weren't really using their account have recently brought in a flat rate fee that is unavoidable, no matter how much business you do or how much money you lodge. Finally revealing that what they really want is to use your money to earn interest and to also charge you for the privilege. Having their cake and eating it too.

    AIB have become equally restrictive and it'll be a matter of months before they too move to the same place as BoI.

    We spit feathers about this, there's a huge thread on the BoI forum every time the fees change, and yet the complaints are ignored. Why? Because for all our complaining and ranting, we don't actually do anything about it. Statistics about this stuff are hard to come by. Banks tend not to release any survey information because they know that banking consistently rates as the sector with one of the worst customer satisfaction ratings of any industry. Banks maintain the status quo, particularly in Ireland, by using cartel-esque policies where all banks are equally poor at what they do and they don't spend much effort competing.

    In a nine-month period from Oct 10 to June 11, just 6,000 Irish people switched their current account. This despite a later survey showing that less than half of people would recommend their current bank. Yet 90 percent of people said they had no desire to leave their current bank. This makes no sense.

    So banks continue to shaft us purely because they know that we'll do nothing about it. We let them do it and we stay with them despite it.

    So do something about it. Switch. One of the more wonderful EU initiatives was a requirement to provide a simple switching mechanism for all customers. Effectively a "redirect" is set up on your old bank account, so any direct debits or standing orders don't go unpaid and ruin your credit history, instead they get sent to your new bank account.
    So all the banks are pretty ****, but the smaller banks are trying to compete and are offering better deals. If everyone starts switching for the better deals, then all of the banks will be forced to innovate, to offer better choices.

    Here's a good review of what's available:
    http://www.bonkers.ie/blog/the-best-current-accounts-in-ireland---the-bonkers-ie-review/

    When AIB & BoI raise their fees again, and they will, remember; If you won't switch, then don't bitch. Whatever reasons they give for the increases are bull. They do it because they can. Because we let them. So it's time to take the power back, force banks to shift from their 1970s mindsets to a 21st century one where companies compete for their customers.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I'd switch if some other bank give me some certainty about what charges regime will exist for a 3/5 year period. No point switching if the other bank then jacks up charges 3 months later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ardmacha wrote: »
    I'd switch if some other bank give me some certainty about what charges regime will exist for a 3/5 year period. No point switching if the other bank then jacks up charges 3 months later.
    Why not? If your new bank ups their fees, then switch again. Don't let yourself be charged fees just because you can't be arsed. This is exactly what the banks rely on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Yeah but there's a problem in switching to the cheapest bank because its really really useful to be able to actually visit a branch (we are still very cash based). And as others have said banks tend to put charges on a few months after their competitors.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Wasn't there some stat that over your lifetime you are more likely to get divorced then to leave your bank.

    I don't have a link but I heard that somewhere years ago and I fully believe it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Yeah but there's a problem in switching to the cheapest bank because its really really useful to be able to actually visit a branch (we are still very cash based). And as others have said banks tend to put charges on a few months after their competitors.
    We need to break this mindset. The only reason I go near a bank anymore is to cash in my coins. BoI won't even do drafts under €500 anymore.

    I get my money from the ATM and all my money is transferred online or in cash. Insist that people pay you by transfer, refuse cheques. Smartphone usage in Ireland is at something ridiculous like 70%, there are no good reasons to continue using cheques and large sums of cash. If your granny gives you a cheque, then mail it to your branch to lodge it. How often do you actually need to go into your bank versus how much you go just because it's there? And how much time do you waste getting there and queueing versus the 2 minutes it takes to do this online or get the cash from an ATM?
    Wasn't there some stat that over your lifetime you are more likely to get divorced then to leave your bank.

    I don't have a link but I heard that somewhere years ago and I fully believe it
    It popped up on reddit a couple of days back, which actually inspired this thread :) but as far as I can tell, it's a slightly dubious statistic from the UK. Based around the idea that switching rates in 2008 were so small that on average a person would change bank account every 26 years, but would change spouse every 23 years or something. It wasn't really comparing like with like, but it has changed since, switching rates have risen in the UK. They've risen here too, but in Ireland the land where we complain in private and smile in public, I imagine the switching rates are still in the low single digits, if not less than 1%.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    The problem for a lot of us is we are dependent on cash. If a bank doesn't have a physical branch that you can walk into within ten miles, it's not an option for a lot of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    I've an appointment next wednesday with PTSB to move my account of 30 years over from AIB. Sick of the charges. :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    seamus wrote: »
    We need to break this mindset. The only reason I go near a bank anymore is to cash in my coins. BoI won't even do drafts under €500 anymore.

    I get my money from the ATM and all my money is transferred online or in cash. Insist that people pay you by transfer, refuse cheques. Smartphone usage in Ireland is at something ridiculous like 70%, there are no good reasons to continue using cheques and large sums of cash. If your granny gives you a cheque, then mail it to your branch to lodge it. How often do you actually need to go into your bank versus how much you go just because it's there. And how much time do you waste getting there and queueing versus the 2 minutes it takes to do this online or get the cash from an ATM.

    Banning ATMs would be a better idea. Once the cash comes out of the wall it has to go back into the system somewhere, sometime


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    I opened a PTSB account last week. Just waiting on my card and PIN in the post and I'll shut down the AIB account in a few days.

    I like the staff in the AIB branch, very helpful and it's sad to see so many branches closing.

    But AIB ATM fees are 20c now and going to 35c in August and enough is enough!

    They will keep jacking up the fees and testing resistance until enough people leave. 35c in August, it'll probably be 50c in 2014


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    I have to clear a loan. Once this has been done I'll maintain a bank account only to lodge cheques. Otherwise they can f**k off.

    On the other hand. Have you considered the inconvenience of not having a bank account of some description.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    seamus wrote: »
    We need to break this mindset. The only reason I go near a bank anymore is to cash in my coins. BoI won't even do drafts under €500 anymore.

    I get my money from the ATM and all my money is transferred online or in cash. Insist that people pay you by transfer, refuse cheques. Smartphone usage in Ireland is at something ridiculous like 70%, there are no good reasons to continue using cheques and large sums of cash. If your granny gives you a cheque, then mail it to your branch to lodge it. How often do you actually need to go into your bank versus how much you go just because it's there? And how much time do you waste getting there and queueing versus the 2 minutes it takes to do this online or get the cash from an ATM?
    /QUOTE]

    Thats kind of hard to do if your on the dole and receiving all your money in cash form from the post office, or a lot of other situations where you might regularly receive cash.
    AIB customers can lodge money at the post office but thats not much use since they are a fee charging bank.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    On the other hand. Have you considered the inconvenience of not having a bank account of some description.

    Our Minister for Finance Bertie Ahern managed ok without a bank account ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    The way I look at it, I wanted to move to PTSB there at 1500 I get paid 1200 P/M , Ulster Bank charge 4 Euro P/M for my account. Is there a point in moving, as someone said, PTSB are planning to introduce more charges down the line.

    Why can't one of the banks just offer free banking?

    I find it amazing that I give the banks my money to make some money and this is not good for them. I can do nothing about how I am paid, all I am waiting for is http://www.readyforsepa.ie/ then I will go with a free bank in the UK , if the Irish banks don't want my money in return for free banking then the UK banks can have it.

    What's even worse is I am with Ulster Bank, in the UK and NI there current accounts are free. The people of Ireland are been taking for a ride by the banks big style. The banks are actully working like a pack of dogs against the people of Ireland amazing how they all introduce charges at the same time and I don't believe in coincidences.

    What is going to happen is this country will crash and the banks will be full of cash, but the people won't have a cent in there pocket to spend any decent amounts of money to keep business going !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Our Minister for Finance Bertie Ahern managed ok without a bank account ;)

    D'ya reckon?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    msg11 wrote: »
    The way I look at it, I wanted to move to PTSB there at 1500 I get paid 1200 P/M , Ulster Bank charge 4 Euro P/M for my account. Is there a point in moving, as someone said, PTSB are planning to introduce more charges down the line.

    Why can't one of the banks just offer free banking?

    I find it amazing that I give the banks my money to make some money and this is not good for them. I can do nothing about how I am paid, all I am waiting for is http://www.readyforsepa.ie/ then I will go with a free bank in the UK , if the Irish banks don't want my money in return for free banking then the UK banks can have it.

    What's even worse is I am with Ulster Bank, in the UK and NI there current accounts are free. The people of Ireland are been taking for a ride by the banks big style. The banks are actully working like a pack of dogs against the people of Ireland amazing how they all introduce charges at the same time and I don't believe in coincidences.

    What is going to happen is this country will crash and the banks will be full of cash, but the people won't have a cent in there pocket to spend any decent amounts of money to keep business going !

    Will you be able to use SEPA for every day banking though?

    From the very little info on that site it just seems to standardise payments between EU based banks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    When the fcuk are people going to grow up?

    We bitch about how the banks wrecked the economy (only a small part of the big picture), yet we then bitch when they try to fix things.

    We want, we need, the banks to return to making profits from day-to-day banking and not force them down the road of high risk lending which is what happened a decade ago when the first "free" banking offers were introduced.

    It's called a loss-leader for a reason - the plan was to lose a lot by offering daily banking for free, but make an even bigger profit on the lending side. It didn't turn out well for the banks. It didn't turn out well for the customers. It didn't turn out well for the country. Why the politicians/regulator don't have the balls to reign in PTSB (the ultimate zombie bank) and force them to return to viability instead of pumping in taxpayers money just to subsidise people's daily banking (and hinder the recovery of the 2 pillar banks) is beyond me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    If you dont want to pay for a service don't use it!
    Would you expect your electricity provider to let you off the "Standing Charge" or your TV provider to give you the movie and sports channels for free?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,552 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I am living abroad and have a bank account here. A lot of money was still going through my BOI account but that is going to change. No way I am paying these charges.

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie

    Subscribe and save boards.ie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    thing is though, you cant get paid from work in cash >.>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16 zxce


    Nearly wasn't a word about this but the other day euro finance ministers approved plan for taking anything over €100,000 from peoples accounts across the euro zone when their banks get in bother. Only really CNN ran with it.

    http://www.infowars.com/new-eu-plan-will-make-every-bank-account-in-europe-vulnerable-to-cyprus-style-wealth-confiscation/

    Don't bother complaining to them either, they've set up the email system in Brussels to easily block a surge in "annoying" emails if something annoys the lesser folk.


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  • Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Maliah Wrong Whirlpool


    zxce wrote: »
    Nearly wasn't a word about this but the other day euro finance ministers approved plan for taking anything over €100,000 from peoples accounts across the euro zone when their banks get in bother. Only really CNN ran with it.

    http://www.infowars.com/new-eu-plan-will-make-every-bank-account-in-europe-vulnerable-to-cyprus-style-wealth-confiscation/

    Don't bother complaining to them either, they've set up the email system in Brussels to easily block a surge in "annoying" emails if something annoys the lesser folk.

    I was quite angry about that, to be honest.
    It's one thing to say "the bank failed, you lost your money". It's quite another to say "we've decided to help ourselves to your money, just because"
    Obviously the easy answer is to diversify, but the principle of this is very scary and wrong


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,234 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    I was initially with TSB and changed to Ulster then to AiB and now I'm with BoI. I have no where left too go. Danske isn't an option as I firmly believe they'll pull the pin on theIr Irish operation in the next few years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭YellowFeather


    CJC999 wrote: »
    I was initially with TSB and changed to Ulster then to AiB and now I'm with BoI. I have no where left too go. Danske isn't an option as I firmly believe they'll pull the pin on theIr Irish operation in the next few years.

    Back to PTSB.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    switch back to ulster..at least it can be possible to avoid their charges


  • Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's a business that charges for a vast amount of services, I don't see the problem?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    I moved to PTSB recently. It was very easy and now I have free fees again!

    If PTSB see they are getting more customers they will keep free fees. They have been making it easier to get free fees not harder.


  • Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The amount of people that don't switch because "it's too much hassle"

    It's fcuk all hassle.


    Fantastic post OP btw. I think alot of people just aren't aware how easy it is to switch.

    People look for value in all other products, clothes, groceries etc, banks shouldn't be any different..


  • Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CJC999 wrote: »
    I was initially with TSB and changed to Ulster then to AiB and now I'm with BoI. I have no where left too go. Danske isn't an option as I firmly believe they'll pull the pin on theIr Irish operation in the next few years.

    :confused:

    Are you barred or something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 392 ✭✭Realtine


    ardmacha wrote: »
    I'd switch if some other bank give me some certainty about what charges regime will exist for a 3/5 year period. No point switching if the other bank then jacks up charges 3 months later.

    THIS.

    Would love to move from BOI - Absolutely sick of having so much money raided from my account every quarter - (80€ last week just wiped out) would love to move to PTSB if only there was a guarantee that at least for 2 years the account conditions would not change. Closing my UB account soon as just can't trust them not to screw up again - really fecked me up last time - and I keep the account open but with nothing in it it's just costing money now every month.
    Sick of them all.


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  • Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    The amount of people that don't switch because "it's too much hassle"

    It's fcuk all hassle.


    Fantastic post OP btw. I think alot of people just aren't aware how easy it is to switch.

    People look for value in all other products, clothes, groceries etc, banks shouldn't be any different..

    Value doesn't come in terms of just price though? I am not aware of any other bank but I'm with boi since 16 and they have a great online facility, if I'm ever anywhere else in the country I know there is a branch near by should I need it....people tend to let alot of things bother them that shouldn't tbh, as the above post said if your not happy then move, don't be moaning about it!


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