Have you ever been to a Brothel

yoloc · 29-06-2013 11:20AM

Went into one one night with my brother in law while away on holiday. It was a bar/strip club and there was loads of lovely looking birds all in it. My brother in law busted my balls to lend him money so he could bang this one as she was a stunner and also had the cheek to say that i shouldnt go anywhere near them. I threw him a lend of 60 euro as that was the price for an hour where we were and told him that if i lend him the money, not to blow his muck and do a 2 stroke and make sure he stays in for as long as possible. So next thing is, he went in and i grabbed the wee one i had my eye on and went in for a half hour, done what i needed to do and was out before him. He came out with a big grin on him chuffed to fcuk and hadnt a clue what i was upto,lol.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 11:28AM

Speisekarte wrote: »

Carcasm you blatantly spin and twist people's posts.

You keep mentioning conlusions and that my conclusions are illogical. I said it is sad IF it is the case you base morality off your emotions and feelings.

I'm not twisting what you're saying at all. You're trying to say I'm saying things I haven't said, and filling in the blanks as a means to justify your already formed conclusion. How is that then a logical conclusion?

My conscience forms the basis of my thoughts and feelings on an issue, I combine that with facts to define my morality on an issue. I haven't once argued the morality of this issue. I have given my opinion based on facts alone.

When did I say it was my conclusion that a conversation with Hitler would be similar. I imagined, ie surmised that to be the case judging by your posts. My opinion of your lack of logic is based on your posts, your posts are the evidence.

Now who's twisting posts and engaging in word play and semantics. I'm done arguing with your anti-semitic semantics and your conclusions about conscience without science.

Ole Rodrigo · 29-06-2013 11:37AM

What I find bizarre is folks giving out about prostitution but don't mind tons of porn at the ready in every internet connected home.

Can you really have a well rounded liberal outlook and condemn prostitution? What if its just simply a sexual preference for some people, like homosexuality..is it not as deserving of parity of esteem? How is ok to make porn films yet prostitution is illegal ?And what about the rights of women to do the work ( safely) if they want ? Its often left unsaid in these arguments but a lot of women like the work and the money they can make, for their own reasons. Its a misguided view that women choose to do it because of grinding poverty. Grinding taste for the good life in many cases.

And a lot of men like the option of sex without any emotional involvement, a lot of women are in relationships that have little interest in sex. Is it bad for society ? Is legislating to curb peoples sexual expression a good idea ?? The argument often gets stuck in moral and cultural relativism.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 11:40AM

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair, that's not true. Most massacres/Purges/etc were done with a clear conscience by the perpetrators.

Absolutely, but that's because their logic made sense to them. You don't get to conquer half of Europe if you have any niggling doubts about killing the first person that stands in your way.

Most nazi's who participated in the holocaust believed what they were doing was for a greater good.

Yes, because they believed what they were doing was morally right. Hitler's argument made sense to them. It seemed like the logical thing to do.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 11:46AM

ror_74 wrote: »

Can you really have a well rounded liberal outlook and condemn prostitution?

Some people aren't so concerned with being labelled as liberal or conservative.

What if its just simply a sexual preference for some people, like homosexuality..is it not as deserving of parity of esteem?

You can choose to be a sex worker or not, you CAN'T choose to be homosexual or not.

Zen65 · 29-06-2013 12:05PM

ror_74 wrote: »

What I find bizarre is folks giving out about prostitution but don't mind tons of porn at the ready in every internet connected home.

That's an excellent point. Since the actors in porn movies are engaging in sex-for-money they are effectively carrying out the same activities as prostitutes. The fact that they are not taking money directly from the sexual partner is irrelevant, as is the fact that they are both getting paid for it. If you bought the porn movie then you've paid for them to have sex for your entertainment.

Z

Ole Rodrigo · 29-06-2013 12:13PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

You can choose to be a sex worker or not, you CAN'T choose to be homosexual or not.

Thats exactly right - I wasnt clear enough, I meant it in the broader context of sexual expression, and why should one be acceptable and one not ( with consenting adults of course ). My point really is about the futility of legislating against human sexuality, I suppose.

Ole Rodrigo · 29-06-2013 12:15PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Some people aren't so concerned with being labelled as liberal or conservative. .

Not a question of labels, more one of intellectual hypocrisy.

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 12:22PM

Pug160 wrote: »

It's not a straightforward issue. There are all sorts of reasons why someone might pay for sex. Some of them maybe don't regard women very highly but you could say the same thing about chauvinistic or even misogynistic players who just go out to put another notch on their bedposts. I would also argue that you don't know what a lot of these so called nice guys are getting up to when you're not around.

+1

Some people find it completely inconceivable that any man who pays a woman for sex cannot treat her with the same courtesy they would show any other professional. All sorts of people pay for sex. They come from all walks of life right across the social spectrum.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Sex is freely available to anyone who wants it.

Not true. Ever hear of involuntary celibacy? Not everyone can get sex whenever they choose.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 12:32PM

Zen65 wrote: »

That's an excellent point. Since the actors in porn movies are engaging in sex-for-money they are effectively carrying out the same activities as prostitutes. The fact that they are not taking money directly from the sexual partner is irrelevant, as is the fact that they are both getting paid for it. If you bought the porn movie then you've paid for them to have sex for your entertainment.

Z

Common misconception there Z - Porn actors get paid to act, not to have sex. Trust me, trying to get that money shot after forty takes and still trying to manage a smile like your enjoying it when your hole is aching takes an Oscar worthy mentality. It's the epitome of method acting.

Using phrases like "effectively carrying out the same activities" and "the fact that they are not taking money directly is irrelevant" to equate the two are like saying chalk and cheese are the same if you disregard the color, the taste, the texture, etc.

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 12:39PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Common misconception there Z - Porn actors get paid to act, not to have sex. Trust me, trying to get that money shot after forty takes and still trying to manage a smile like your enjoying it when your hole is aching takes an Oscar worthy mentality. It's the epitome of method acting.

Using phrases like "effectively carrying out the same activities" and "the fact that they are not taking money directly is irrelevant" to equate the two are like saying chalk and cheese are the same if you disregard the color, the taste, the texture, etc.

People are exploited in the porn business too. Like prostitution, porn isn't inherently wrong, each person brings to it what they will.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 12:46PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Not true. Ever hear of involuntary celibacy? Not everyone can get sex whenever they choose.

I've heard it used as an excuse to justify buying sex, yes. It's an "easy out" for people unwilling to make the effort to find a sexual partner that they don't have to pay for when it's more convenient for them to pay for it.

Have you ever heard of any sex worker who offered sexual services voluntarily to a person who is involuntarily celibate? The tart with a heart is a myth. Those misguided individuals don't last very long in the business, and certainly don't enjoy a very affluent lifestyle.

Speisekarte · 29-06-2013 12:50PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Absolutely, but that's because their logic made sense to them. You don't get to conquer half of Europe if you have any niggling doubts about killing the first person that stands in your way

Yes, because they believed what they were doing was morally right. Hitler's argument made sense to them. It seemed like the logical thing to do.

Seemed being the crucial word. Their social conditioning and emotions primarily shaped their views about the Jews. The so called logic was secondary and no doubt full of holes.

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 12:53PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I've heard it used as an excuse to justify buying sex, yes. It's an "easy out" for people unwilling to make the effort to find a sexual partner that they don't have to pay for when it's more convenient for them to pay for it.

Have you ever heard of any sex worker who offered sexual services voluntarily to a person who is involuntarily celibate? The tart with a heart is a myth. Those misguided individuals don't last very long in the business, and certainly don't enjoy a very affluent lifestyle.

There are people who make the effort and just have no luck for whatever the reason. Some people can go their whole life without having sex. It's not just a matter of getting up of your arse and approaching women (or men).

There is a huge demand for prostitution after all. Even peope who can get sex the conventional way, may prefer to hire an escort because they don't want the emotional baggage or whatever.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 12:56PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

People are exploited in the porn business too.

Anywhere there is opportunity to do so, some people will exploit, and some people will be exploited, that holds true of any circumstances so there's nothing new or revolutionary in your argument there.

Like prostitution, porn isn't inherently wrong

Depends on who you ask really, some people do it because they enjoy sex, some people get into it because they enjoy acting, and some people get into it for what they see from the outside as easy money. They don't be long finding out that it's not as easy as "lie back and take it", or "get it hard and shake it". Like any business, sometimes you have to fake it to make it.

each person brings to it what they will.

Again, nothing new, revolutionary or thought provoking there.

dotsman · 29-06-2013 12:58PM

I don't know about others, but when it comes to sex work, I prefer to listen to the opinions of those who work in the industry as opposed to fanatical religious groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7nOh57-I8

I think it is a crying shame that, while we, as a country, are still trying to come to terms with the horrors inflicted upon these women by the likes of the Magdalene laundries, we are still letting these same groups dictate how sex workers should be treated.

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 01:05PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Anywhere there is opportunity to do so, some people will exploit, and some people will be exploited, that holds true of any circumstances so there's nothing new or revolutionary in your argument there.

Depends on who you ask really, some people do it because they enjoy sex, some people get into it because they enjoy acting, and some people get into it for what they see from the outside as easy money. They don't be long finding out that it's not as easy as "lie back and take it", or "get it hard and shake it". Like any business, sometimes you have to fake it to make it.

Again, nothing new, revolutionary or thought provoking there.

So what exactly are you against?

Btw, there have been documentaries made about involuntary celibacy, and none of people used it as an excuse to pay for sex. They're still virgins so obviously they haven't used prostitutes.

Yamanoto · 29-06-2013 01:08PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Common misconception there Z - Porn actors get paid to act, not to have sex. Trust me, trying to get that money shot after forty takes and still trying to manage a smile like your enjoying it when your hole is aching takes an Oscar worthy mentality. It's the epitome of method acting.

Using phrases like "effectively carrying out the same activities" and "the fact that they are not taking money directly is irrelevant" to equate the two are like saying chalk and cheese are the same if you disregard the color, the taste, the texture, etc.

While porn is not a direct like for like comparison with prostitution, there are undoubtedly parallels between the two.

Many who enter the world of porn may lack the emotional wherewithal to successfully separate the work from their lives off-set or allow what they do for a living to steadily corrode their sense of self.

Some participants fall between the cracks, often irrevocably damaged by the experience.

There are others however, who appear capable of compartmentalising the work, viewing it in pragmatic terms as a means to an end. Though the mechanics of the job may be of an intimate nature, they reserve genuine intimacy for spouses or partners and eventually make their exit - having achieved whatever it is they've set out to achieve.

Though it lacks any financial imperative, many swingers possibly have to navigate a similar set of internal conflicts - some are strengthened by it, some weakened and others remain unfazed by the whole experience.

stoneill · 29-06-2013 01:10PM

I was only there to use the phone.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 01:31PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

So what exactly are you against?

The exploitation of people.

Btw, there have been documentaries made about involuntary celibacy, and none of people used it as an excuse to pay for sex. They're still virgins so obviously they haven't used prostitutes.

But YOU introduced it as a possible reason why people might feel the need to pay for sex? You've just negated your own argument, and that's even without me arguing whether celibacy is a choice or not!

fatbatman · 29-06-2013 01:43PM

Czarcasm, the only time you can point out inconsistencies in others' arguments is by nit-picking at them using your own illogical conclusions about what they said which conflicts with the points they were actually attempting to make.

You are starting off with an emotionally based position and then attempting to justify it with whatever you think you may get away with. When you do this you will find that people can very easily deconstruct your arguments.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 01:46PM

Speisekarte wrote: »

Seemed being the crucial word. Their social conditioning and emotions primarily shaped their views about the Jews. The so called logic was secondary and no doubt full of holes.

In his supporters opinion, Hitler made a good argument, an argument that made people angry enough to come to what they saw as the logical conclusion which was to annihalate half of Europe and assert Aryan dominance.

Yamanoto · 29-06-2013 01:48PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

The exploitation of people.

Quick question so.

If two consenting adults freely agree to enact a transaction for sex (again let me make this clear - no coercion involved), would you have an objection to that and if so, on what grounds?

Daveysil15 · 29-06-2013 01:54PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

But YOU introduced it as a possible reason why people might feel the need to pay for sex?

YOU said sex is freely available to everyone which simply isn't true. I was pointing out that some people are involuntarily celibate, which is true.

HansHolzel · 29-06-2013 01:56PM

Ruhama should be banned. This is from the Irish Times, 29 June 2011, written by Patsy McGarry.

"Two of the religious congregations which ran Magdalene laundries in the State set up and continue to run the Dublin-based Ruhama agency, which is funded by the State and works “with women affected by prostitution and other forms of commercial sexual exploitation”.

According to its website, the agency receives funding from the Department of Health and the Department of Justice.

Ruhama, which means “renewed life” in Hebrew, is described as “a joint initiative of the Good Shepherd Sisters and the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, both of which had a long history of involvement with marginalised women, including those involved in prostitution”.

Both congregations refused to meet Justice for Magdalenes, a support group for women who had been in the laundries, including those run by the Good Shepherd Sisters at Limerick, Cork, Waterford and New Ross, and those run by the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity at High Park in Drumcondra and Seán MacDermott Street in Dublin.

In a letter to Justice for Magdalenes spokesman Prof James Smith on June 23rd last year, Sr Sheila Murphy of the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity said she did “not wish to have, nor do I see any purpose in having, a meeting with you at this time”.

In an e-mail of June 17th last year, Sr Bernie McNally of the Good Shepherd Sisters told Prof Smith she would not be able to engage in a meeting with him and “will not be able to respond further”.

Top of the list of Ruhama’s board of directors are Sr Sheila Murphy and Sr Bernadette McNally.

As reported in The Irish Times , figures disclosed to Sinn Féin’s Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin by Minister for Health Dr James Reilly revealed that the Good Shepherd Sisters have received more than €14.4 million from the Health Service Executive since 2006.

No figures were disclosed for what sums the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity received over that period, or for what either order received from the Department of Justice.

Despite selling off extensive properties in Waterford, Cork and Limerick, the Good Shepherd Sisters said, following publication of the Ryan report in 2009, that they had no resources to contribute to the costs of redress for people who had been abused as children in institutions which they had also run."

Zen65 · 29-06-2013 01:59PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Common misconception there Z - Porn actors get paid to act, not to have sex.

That explains why they only recruit actors who have been to Drama School, and why the script is so rich with dialogue?

Porn actors are chosen for their physical prowess, and not for their acting ability. What they do is have sex in front of a camera, which is not really the same as classical "acting". Acting a porn scene would not involve actual penetration.

And what about prostitutes? Well, they get paid to have sex with somebody they don't know and pretend to be interested in it. That's as much about acting as it is about having sex. So as far as I'm concerned the two professions are as similar as Physiotherapists and Physical Therapists.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Trust me, .....

To quote one of your own often-used expressions, I'm awaiting evidence that placing any trust in your opinion is a wise choice!

Czarcasm wrote: »

Using phrases like "effectively carrying out the same activities" and "the fact that they are not taking money directly is irrelevant" to equate the two are like saying chalk and cheese are the same if you disregard the color, the taste, the texture, etc.

The comparison is very valid when somebody decides to bite the chalk or write on the blackboard with cheese. The porn actors and the prostitutes are engaged in the same act, all that differs is the nature of the audience.

Z

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 01:59PM

fatbatman wrote: »

Czarcasm, the only time you can point out inconsistencies in others' arguments is by nit-picking at them using your own illogical conclusions about what they said which conflicts with the points they were actually attempting to make.

I'm only addressing their points, it's not me is nit picking and twisting anything at all.

You are starting off with an emotionally based position and then attempting to justify it with whatever you think you may get away with. When you do this you will find that people can very easily deconstruct your arguments.

Ehh? Perhaps that's why you've failed to make a coherent argument so far - you have incorrectly assumed I am using emotion as my argument. I haven't used emotion to make my arguments at all, so your deconstruction is based on a flawed assumption. Does that seem logical to you?

Have you read that thread I linked you to yet where sex work in Ireland was already discussed in more coherent detail than this train wreck of a thread? Here it is again just in case you can't be àrsed to scroll back -

Exclusion of Sex Workers from Justice Committee

April O Neill · 29-06-2013 02:01PM

Blondini wrote: »

Would thank this 10000 times if I could.:pac:

Why, thank you. :cool:

Speisekarte · 29-06-2013 02:06PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm only addressing their points, it's not me is nit picking and twisting anything at all.

Ehh? Perhaps that's why you've failed to make a coherent argument so far - you have incorrectly assumed I am using emotion as my argument. I haven't used emotion to make my arguments at all, so your deconstruction is based on a flawed assumption. Does that seem logical to you?

Have you read that thread I linked you to yet where sex work in Ireland was already discussed in more coherent detail than this train wreck of a thread? Here it is again just in case you can't be àrsed to scroll back -

Exclusion of Sex Workers from Justice Committee

You missed his point.

The emotion you feel inside yourself is determining your positions and conclusions. You then use any old reasons you can think of to justify your positions, when reality your mind has already been made up by your personal feelings and emotions.

Czarcasm · 29-06-2013 02:09PM

Zen65 wrote: »

That explains why they only recruit actors who have been to Drama School, and why the script is so rich with dialogue?

Porn actors are chosen for their physical prowess, and not for their acting ability. What they do is have sex in front of a camera, which is not really the same as classical "acting". Acting a porn scene would not involve actual penetration.

I can't argue with somebody who clearly has no idea what they're talking about tbh.

And what about prostitutes? Well, they get paid to have sex with somebody they don't know and pretend to be interested in it. That's as much about acting as it is about having sex. So as far as I'm concerned the two professions are as similar as Physiotherapists and Physical Therapists.

Again, I can't argue with somebody who has no idea what they're talking about.

To quote one of your own often-used expressions, I'm awaiting evidence that placing any trust in your opinion is a wise choice!

Here you go, all the evidence you should ever want -

Exclusion of Sex Workers from Justice Committee

The comparison is very valid when somebody decides to bite the chalk or write on the blackboard with cheese. The porn actors and the prostitutes are engaged in the same act, all that differs is the nature of the audience.

Z

Again, I can't argue with somebody who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. If you really want to inform yourself, read that thread I linked to.

Have you ever been to a Brothel

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