Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Bogota · 27-06-2013 09:09AM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

That isn't really what you said though. I don't think anyone would have raised much objection if you said he could be a better player once he gets more gametime under his belt.

You can find the quote. I said I think Murphy is the better player. And I think that will be shown when he gets more gametime under his belt. I think the main issue was people's interpretation of what I mean by better player. I'll spell it out, I think that Murphy is better than POM in most aspects of rugby. I think the main difference between them is that POM has had the opportunity to really develop whereas Murphy is still waiting for that opportunity. Although that said, Murphy is 2 years younger than POM.

Lelantos · 27-06-2013 09:47AM

Bogota wrote: »

You can find the quote. I said I think Murphy is the better player. And I think that will be shown when he gets more gametime under his belt. I think the main issue was people's interpretation of what I mean by better player. I'll spell it out, I think that Murphy is better than POM in most aspects of rugby. I think the main difference between them is that POM has had the opportunity to really develop whereas Murphy is still waiting for that opportunity. Although that said, Murphy is 2 years younger than POM.

Mahatma Geansai · 27-06-2013 10:18AM

Bogota wrote: »

You can find the quote. I said I think Murphy is the better player. And I think that will be shown when he gets more gametime under his belt. I think the main issue was people's interpretation of what I mean by better player. I'll spell it out, I think that Murphy is better than POM in most aspects of rugby. I think the main difference between them is that POM has had the opportunity to really develop whereas Murphy is still waiting for that opportunity. Although that said, Murphy is 2 years younger than POM.

That makes no sense at all. Under your reasoning, I could say that Hanrahan and McGrath are better players than Sexton and Murray, they just haven't had the time to develop. You can't say that someone is a better player just because they might become one at some stage in the future.

jamiedav2011 · 27-06-2013 10:24AM

Lads, what he's saying makes perfect sense.

Gmetime and development make a better player and Bogota perhaps believes that Murphy has more raw talent than POM and if he was in a less competitive backrow would be flourising by now.

It's an opinion, and while you or I might not agree, debate it please rather than feckin dragging another thread off kilter with more of the same will ye?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 27-06-2013 11:14AM

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Lads, what he's saying makes perfect sense.

Gmetime and development make a better player and Bogota perhaps believes that Murphy has more raw talent than POM and if he was in a less competitive backrow would be flourising by now.

It's an opinion, and while you or I might not agree, debate it please rather than feckin dragging another thread off kilter with more of the same will ye?

Ya but know one has a problem with him saying he could be better. But he can't seem to make up his own mind:

Bogota wrote: »

I don't think there's a 'hype' brigade about Jordi Murphy at all. There's one poster (me) who thinks that he could be a better a player than POM if he gets the experience. That's pretty much it.

Bogota wrote: »

You can find the quote. I said I think Murphy is the better player. And I think that will be shown when he gets more gametime under his belt. I think the main issue was people's interpretation of what I mean by better player. I'll spell it out, I think that Murphy is better than POM in most aspects of rugby. I think the main difference between them is that POM has had the opportunity to really develop whereas Murphy is still waiting for that opportunity. Although that said, Murphy is 2 years younger than POM.

He either thinks he could be better or he is better, you can't have your cake and eat it

Foxtrol · 27-06-2013 11:15AM

Fireball07 wrote: »

No one has said Killer is better than Healy though?
And TOD...again, no one has said anything more than his performances this season have been very promising and that he deserves a chance with Ireland.

And as for POM...he's always delivered, at every level so far. No one has said he's better than Ferris or SOB for example.

Saying someone is good isn't overhyping them......

I'm sorry overhyping players doesn't solely come from comparisons to other players which people seem to be putting forward and though saying someone is good isn't overhyping them, saying someone is great when they're only good is.

From what you said about POM it seems there's some kind of misconception that if a player starts to deliver on their hype then there was never any overhype in the first place, as POM ('future long term Irish captain') though delivering on the field is still hasn't shown he wasn't originally overhyped coming through.

I'm not sure how much your earlier post is tongue in cheek but you cant say two tries at home against Glasgow has him fulfill the massive amount of hype that was placed on his shoulders before he arrived. We don't know how good Stander could be if he was given 'enough gametime to perform', which is quite similar to what is being said about Murphy.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 27-06-2013 11:17AM

I'd have Jordi Murphy over Stander right now, think he's certainly a better player

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 27-06-2013 11:25AM

And, tbh, I hope I never see Stander in a green jersey. He's not Irish

.ak · 27-06-2013 11:27AM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

And, tbh, I hope I never see Stander in a green jersey. He's not Irish

... Unless he works his balls off for the better of Irish Rugby... I'm happy with Strauss being an Irish player, for example, because of the work he's put in.

Mahatma Geansai · 27-06-2013 12:01PM

.ak wrote: »

... Unless he works his balls off for the better of Irish Rugby... I'm happy with Strauss being an Irish player, for example, because of the work he's put in.

So if he does his job - just like Strauss did - you'll be happy with him playing for Ireland.

Mahatma Geansai · 27-06-2013 12:03PM

On Saturday, Murray is going to be be the first Irish test-Lion scrumhalf in over 30 years. Not too bad for a young lad from Limerick.

ScissorPaperRock · 27-06-2013 12:05PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'd have Jordi Murphy over Stander right now, think he's certainly a better player

I thought he showed a lot of promise in his limited showings for Munster, so I'm surprised to hear you say that, but with the depth, nationally, in the back row I don't foresee a need for him in an Irish shirt.

.ak · 27-06-2013 12:06PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

So if he does his job - just like Strauss did - you'll be happy with him playing for Ireland.

There's a difference between turning up to do a job and actually investing time, sweat and blood into your jersey.

I have no problem with either being called Irish and playing for Ireland so long as they actually buy into Irish rugby, which is what I feel Strauss has done.

bilston · 27-06-2013 12:12PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

On Saturday, Murray is going to be be the first Irish test-Lion scrumhalf in over 30 years. Not too bad for a young lad from Limerick.

He has come on really well in the last year. Fair play to him.

With Murray and hopefully Marmion and maybe McGrath eventually Ireland will have a decent pool of scrum halfs for the next ten years. It's not a position we tend to do well in.

irishbucsfan · 27-06-2013 12:48PM

Don't forget the Irish women's 7s team on Saturday folks. They play Australia, South Africa and China if I'm not mistaken. I believe they've a Paddy Jacksonesque video floating around the web but I haven't had time to see it yet!

Edit: And if you aren't aware, it's the world cup

bilston · 27-06-2013 01:32PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't forget the Irish women's 7s team on Saturday folks. They play Australia, South Africa and China if I'm not mistaken. I believe they've a Paddy Jacksonesque video floating around the web but I haven't had time to see it yet!

Edit: And if you aren't aware, it's the world cup

Good luck to them. Hopefully they can back up their GS with a good showing.

bilston · 27-06-2013 01:33PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I believe they've a Paddy Jacksonesque video floating around the web but I haven't had time to see it yet!

Has anyone posted the video of Simon Zebo and Paddy Jackson in Houston? It's actually really funny. I would do it but I continue to fail at embedding Youtube vids on here.

Synode · 27-06-2013 01:38PM

Yep was posted a while back

Fireball07 · 27-06-2013 02:52PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm sorry overhyping players doesn't solely come from comparisons to other players which people seem to be putting forward and though saying someone is good isn't overhyping them, saying someone is great when they're only good is.

From what you said about POM it seems there's some kind of misconception that if a player starts to deliver on their hype then there was never any overhype in the first place, as POM ('future long term Irish captain') though delivering on the field is still hasn't shown he wasn't originally overhyped coming through.

I'm not sure how much your earlier post is tongue in cheek but you cant say two tries at home against Glasgow has him fulfill the massive amount of hype that was placed on his shoulders before he arrived. We don't know how good Stander could be if he was given 'enough gametime to perform', which is quite similar to what is being said about Murphy.

Has anyone said that POM will be the future long-term Irish captain for certain?? I've certainly seen people say him as a possibility...but I don't think that is "over"-hyping. I mean he's a young player, got a good few caps already, Munster's best back row...looks set to be Munster captain in a couple of years. I would say he's quite a realistic candidate.

If someone said it in more certain tones, then yeah, that could be overhyping. But personally, I never really heard people hyping POM beyond the level that he is currently at.

And as for my Stander post, tongue was firmly in cheek. But, at the same time, from the little he showed, I thought he was good enough to be playing in our first team last season..... I don't think him being dropped was solely down to his quality. Luckily for us, TOD really raised his game in the 2nd half of the season and back row became less of an issue.

Foxtrol · 27-06-2013 05:18PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

Has anyone said that POM will be the future long-term Irish captain for certain?? I've certainly seen people say him as a possibility...but I don't think that is "over"-hyping. I mean he's a young player, got a good few caps already, Munster's best back row...looks set to be Munster captain in a couple of years. I would say he's quite a realistic candidate.

If someone said it in more certain tones, then yeah, that could be overhyping. But personally, I never really heard people hyping POM beyond the level that he is currently at.

I think you missed my point, I'm saying just because somebody fulfills their hype down the line doesn't mean they weren't over-hyped earlier in their career.

People were calling POM a future Irish captain when he coming through prior to getting his first run of games with Munster, it hasn't started in the last few weeks. Just because the comment has more legitimacy now doesn't mean it wasn't massively over-hyping him back then.

For example if Jordi Murphy gets a run of games down the line (be it months or years from now) and performs better than POM would you accept that what Bogota is saying at this moment wasn't over-hype?

Fireball07 · 27-06-2013 05:28PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think you missed my point, I'm saying just because somebody fulfills their hype down the line doesn't mean they weren't over-hyped earlier in their career.

People were calling POM a future Irish captain when he coming through prior to getting his first run of games with Munster, it hasn't started in the last few weeks. Just because the comment has more legitimacy now doesn't mean it wasn't massively over-hyping him back then.

For example if Jordi Murphy gets a run of games down the line (be it months or years from now) and performs better than POM would you accept that what Bogota is saying at this moment wasn't over-hype?

I don't know, I think hype on future predictions...if those predictions are realised, then you can't call it over-hype. Hype on current things could be over-hype.

Saying Murphy is better than POM now isn't true..... saying he could be better in the future could possibly be. I think if he's saying that Murphy has the potential to be an Irish regular, and ahead of POM...and if that happens, then he's not over-hyping him.

P.Walnuts · 27-06-2013 05:37PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think you missed my point, I'm saying just because somebody fulfills their hype down the line doesn't mean they weren't over-hyped earlier in their career.

People were calling POM a future Irish captain when he coming through prior to getting his first run of games with Munster, it hasn't started in the last few weeks. Just because the comment has more legitimacy now doesn't mean it wasn't massively over-hyping him back then.

For example if Jordi Murphy gets a run of games down the line (be it months or years from now) and performs better than POM would you accept that what Bogota is saying at this moment wasn't over-hype?

To be honest I find it hard to take anything he says about Murphy at face value as he said he went to school with him. Not exactly the basis of an impartial opinion

JagerScout · 27-06-2013 05:43PM

Jordi Murphy is pretty talented, he was 21 for most of last season and rarely put a foot wrong when given opportunities by Leinster. In 5 years time it wouldn't surprise me if he was at the very least considered as good a player as POM.

Foxtrol · 27-06-2013 05:59PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't know, I think hype on future predictions...if those predictions are realised, then you can't call it over-hype. Hype on current things could be over-hype.

If Conway or Nagle suddenly start fulfilling some of the many predictions made about them earlier in their careers I don't think anyone could reasonably look back and say that at no time in their careers were they ever over-hyped.

Saying Murphy is better than POM now isn't true..... saying he could be better in the future could possibly be. I think if he's saying that Murphy has the potential to be an Irish regular, and ahead of POM...and if that happens, then he's not over-hyping him.

What I read from it was that he meant that if Murphy had the same chances as POM's received he'd be able to show he is the better player. He hasn't gotten the chances yet so we can't tell if that is the case until he does.

EDIT: So by you the definition you're working with it will be impossible to say if that statement is over hyped as its in the 'what if' category that we cant measure whether his prediction can be 'realised'.

LeeroyJones · 27-06-2013 06:48PM

This Murphy-POM chat seems to have been going a fair old while now.

In my mind they're different players. Yes, they're both back-row players and both are somewhat versatile however between the two of them I'd sooner put POM at 6 & 8 but Murphy at 7

who_me · 27-06-2013 07:10PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

On Saturday, Murray is going to be be the first Irish test-Lion scrumhalf in over 30 years. Not too bad for a young lad from Limerick.

Didn't think of that, fair play to him. Having a pretty quick rise, from fringe of the Munster squad to Lions Test bench in 2 seasons.

I think Youngs is deservedly ahead of him, still I hope Murray gets some Test gametime, in this or the 3rd Test.

JagerScout · 27-06-2013 07:12PM

Murray is pretty lucky to be there, wouldnt say he has been a top 3 scrumhalf in the british isles over the last 12 to 18 months.

Buer · 27-06-2013 07:17PM

JagerScout wrote: »

Murray is pretty lucky to be there, wouldnt say he has been a top 3 scrumhalf in the british isles over the last 12 to 18 months.

He's playing well enough now to be in the 23 and that's all that matters. Form 18 months ago or even 6 months ago doesn't matter. He has shown what he can do in the past 4 months and he's taken the opportunity on tour.

Quint2010 · 27-06-2013 07:18PM

Think Murray has really improved this year and deserves his Lions test place. Best of luck to him.

.ak · 27-06-2013 07:24PM

Buer wrote: »

He's playing well enough now to be in the 23 and that's all that matters. Form 18 months ago or even 6 months ago doesn't matter. He has shown what he can do in the past 4 months and he's taken the opportunity on tour.

Think there's also a big case to be made about him being completely under utilized with Ireland and even Munster. People have him nailed down as a big unit of a SH so there for should play slow, pick and go rugby. He's shown that he's actually a top athlete with plenty of speed around the park. His pass has been the best on tour also. He's made a believer out of me anyway.

Can't wait to see what Schmidt can do with him.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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