Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

bilston · 26-06-2013 12:37PM

Grimebox wrote: »

I assumed POC's injury was the end of his career to be honest given his age and how long its previously taken him to come back from injury. Any truth to that?

His current injury?

Sure that's a broken arm nothing to do with his other injuries and he managed to play on with it for a bit. I'm no medic but I'd say he'll be back in full training in six weeks.

jm08 · 26-06-2013 01:12PM

Buer wrote: »

No he doesn't. He also played more games than ever before last season.

Yea, he had a shoulder op which rectified a reoccuring problem. In 12/13 seasonhe started more games (22) than he did in the 11/12 season (16).

Also, it seems Leo has 210 pro games at club level and 29 at international level which would give a total of 235 games.

POC has 118 for Munster and 92 international (Ire & Lions) = 210.

Not that different to Leo's record, except that POC would have started nearly all of the international games, whereas Leo started 15.

Leo is also 2 years older than POC and who is to say that next season POC season will be similar to what happened to Leo after he had his op!

jm08 · 26-06-2013 01:17PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ya but that was during a period where it was unsure if he would actually play rugby again

It was actually because they were trying to manage his back problem without operating on it. (Think he used to get back spasms). It was the pubic infection (they couldn't diagnose what the problem was) is what is thought was a career ending one.

Lelantos · 26-06-2013 01:26PM

Stephen Ferris has rejected the Japanese offer & is signing a contract with Ulster. Still harbours international ambitions it seems

Buer · 26-06-2013 01:29PM

jm08 wrote: »

Yea, he had a shoulder op which rectified a reoccuring problem. In 12/13 seasonhe started more games (22) than he did in the 11/12 season (16).

Also, it seems Leo has 210 pro games at club level and 29 at international level which would give a total of 235 games.

POC has 118 for Munster and 92 international (Ire & Lions) = 210.

Not that different to Leo's record, except that POC would have started nearly all of the international games, whereas Leo started 15.

Leo is also 2 years older than POC and who is to say that next season POC season will be similar to what happened to Leo after he had his op!

I've no idea where you get your facts from but they're more akin to fiction.

Leo Cullen, 201 games for Leinster, 56 for Leicester Tigers, 32 for Ireland and 17 for Ireland A.

So, I must apologise; he's already broken 300 career games and now sits proudly on 306 appearances. I didn't realise he had made so many appearances for Leicester in his two seasons there.

I'll leave it there because, as per usual, you'll completely misrepresent facts and try and change the point you're making repeatedly. It has been worthwhile though, didn't realise Cullen had broken the 300 appearance mark.

.ak · 26-06-2013 01:56PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Stephen Ferris has rejected the Japanese offer & is signing a contract with Ulster. Still harbours international ambitions it seems

Bitter sweet feeling imo. Absolutely without doubt one of the best blindsides in the world. But he isn't worth anything if he spends 80% of his time on a medical table.

A year or two in Japan could've done him the world of good.

jm08 · 26-06-2013 02:47PM

Buer wrote: »

I've no idea where you get your facts from but they're more akin to fiction.

Leo Cullen, 201 games for Leinster, 56 for Leicester Tigers, 32 for Ireland and 17 for Ireland A.

So, I must apologise; he's already broken 300 career games and now sits proudly on 306 appearances. I didn't realise he had made so many appearances for Leicester in his two seasons there.

I'll leave it there because, as per usual, you'll completely misrepresent facts and try and change the point you're making repeatedly. It has been worthwhile though, didn't realise Cullen had broken the 300 appearance mark.

I get them from here - http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player_1051.html - they even give minutes played. Where the disparity maybe is that I didn't include Ireland A games - but then I didn't include midweek Lions games for POC. Preseason games were excluded for both as well as the couple of times POC lined out in the AIL coming back from injury.

Interesting when you tot up the minutes played and divide the time (i.e., to demonstrate how I worked it out - Leo has played 3267 minutes in 56 times for Leicester = 41 games of 80 minutes each).

Leo:
International (excluding Ireland a): 1356 / 80 = 17 games of 80 mins.
Club: 13,200 / 80 = 162 games (Leinster & Leicester)

POC:
International (including Lions Tests) 6785 / 80 = 85 inter. games of 80 mins.
Club: 8501 / 80 = 106 games of 80 mins for Munster.

Leo total games (excluding Ireland A as I don't have the info) = 179 games.

POC total games (excluding Lions mid-week games) = 191 games.

Looks like POC isn't that far behind Leo with regard to the amount of rugby he has played even when you add on 17 Ireland A games (which would give Leo a total of 196 x 80 min games).

I'm sure most people would be surprised that he has played so much rugby. DOC must have broken every playing record going at this stage for playing minutes.

P.Walnuts · 26-06-2013 02:58PM

Ferris staying is great news IMO...

Give our pack so much depth on the bench, consider a pack of..

Healy
Best/Strauss
Ross
McCarthy
Ryan
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

With bench options of

Kilcoyne
Henderson
POM

That's pretty good impact to be calling off the bench, something we have definitely missed over the past number of years

26-06-2013 02:58PM

Demonstrating that POC has less / as many / loads more minutes per season as Leo proves what exactly jm08?

.ak · 26-06-2013 03:02PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Ferris staying is great news IMO...

Give our pack so much depth on the bench, consider a pack of..

Healy
Best/Strauss
Ross
McCarthy
Ryan
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

With bench options of

Kilcoyne
Henderson
POM

That's pretty good impact to be calling off the bench, something we have definitely missed over the past number of years

In light of the recent lions tour, it really makes you realize how lucky we are in the backrow. I know history will remind us that SOB didn't make the 1st test, but he didn't fit Gatland's gameplan, rightly or wrongly, that's life. I think we can all agree he's still a worthy enough backrow option and nobody could argue if he had started the 1st test.

Essentially we have the makings of the best backrow in the home nations if Fez stays fit.

LeeroyJones · 26-06-2013 03:05PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Ferris staying is great news IMO...

Give our pack so much depth on the bench, consider a pack of..

Healy
Best/Strauss
Ross
McCarthy
Ryan
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

With bench options of

Kilcoyne
Henderson
POM

That's pretty good impact to be calling off the bench, something we have definitely missed over the past number of years

I'd be pairing POC and Henderson at Second Row ASAP. They have the making to be one of the best pairings in World Rugby IMO esp by 2015

.ak · 26-06-2013 03:07PM

Yeah. Ryan might find himself on the bench soon enough if Henderson's rise continues. Ryan is the perfect bench option as he's a 5.5 really.

P.Walnuts · 26-06-2013 03:23PM

.ak wrote: »

In light of the recent lions tour, it really makes you realize how lucky we are in the backrow. I know history will remind us that SOB didn't make the 1st test, but he didn't fit Gatland's gameplan, rightly or wrongly, that's life. I think we can all agree he's still a worthy enough backrow option and nobody could argue if he had started the 1st test.

Essentially we have the makings of the best backrow in the home nations if Fez stays fit.

I really hope there is no wrapping Henderson in cotton wool for a year or two, i'd have him as 3rd choice lock straight away and give him plenty of game time, you don;t see the Saffa's holding back their young guys, Etzebeth may be a bit of a physical freak, but he isn't that much bigger than Henderson

hype101 · 26-06-2013 03:36PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I really hope there is no wrapping Henderson in cotton wool for a year or two, i'd have him as 3rd choice lock straight away and give him plenty of game time, you don;t see the Saffa's holding back their young guys, Etzebeth may be a bit of a physical freak, but he isn't that much bigger than Henderson

And Henderson is a better actual rugby player.. Give him time to put some weight on that frame.. Agree with the Henderson POC combination.. Could be awesome

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 26-06-2013 03:39PM

Henderson has a long way to go at lock to even considering ousting D Ryan

jm08 · 26-06-2013 04:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Demonstrating that POC has less / as many / loads more minutes per season as Leo proves what exactly jm08?

That POC has managed to play as much rugby over his supposedly injury prone career as your average 2nd row.

P.Walnuts · 26-06-2013 04:09PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Henderson has a long way to go at lock to even considering ousting D Ryan

I think it could be a case of whats best for the team, rather than being a better player.

With POC and Ryan we have two athletic, lean <17.5 St locks, Henderson is already heavier than both, and pretty much as athletic. Give him a year and he could be a very good TH lock

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 26-06-2013 04:12PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I think it could be a case of whats best for the team, rather than being a better player.

With POC and Ryan we have two athletic, lean <17.5 St locks, Henderson is already heavier than both, and pretty much as athletic. Give him a year and he could be a very good TH lock

I think Henderson has the potential to be a world class lock, I'm a huge fan. However, at the moment I think he's a lot to learn about the position because it's an immensely intricate

Hagz · 26-06-2013 04:13PM

jm08 wrote: »

That POC has managed to play as much rugby over his supposedly injury prone career as your average 2nd row.

Surely the logical thing to do would be to make a comparison that is specific to say the last 3 years. Not a whole career.

JagerScout · 26-06-2013 04:20PM

Henderson should be spending as much time as possible with POC, learn from the master.

Podge_irl · 26-06-2013 04:32PM

I think Henderson is going to spending most of his time in Ulster at 6 though.

bilston · 26-06-2013 04:35PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Henderson is going to spending most of his time in Ulster at 6 though.

Well that's the beauty of keeping Ferris. If we get him fit then it means Henderson can pop into the row, plus Diack played well at the end of the season (failure to score a try in the Pro 12 final aside!). A Muller/Henderson second row pairing could be very strong for Ulster, but then of course Tuohy finished the season strongly as well.

JagerScout · 26-06-2013 04:37PM

bilston wrote: »

Well that's the beauty of keeping Ferris. If we get him fit then it means Henderson can pop into the row, plus Diack played well at the end of the season (failure to score a try in the Pro 12 final aside!). A Muller/Henderson second row pairing could be very strong for Ulster, but then of course Tuohy finished the season strongly as well.

Conor Joyce is a 6 prospect that should begin to get time with you guys too.

bilston · 26-06-2013 04:40PM

JagerScout wrote: »

Conor Joyce is a 6 prospect that should begin to get time with you guys too.

Yeah from what I've seen of him he is a different beast to Ferris and Henderson. He isn't an amazing carrier but he makes tackle after tackle. I suppose he is a bit like Dan Lydiate in terms of style which is no bad thing.

26-06-2013 05:21PM

jm08 wrote: »

That POC has managed to play as much rugby over his supposedly injury prone career as your average 2nd row.

But nobody's suggesting Cullen would make a good Ireland captain?

And in the last 36 months, POC's gametime has been pretty small no?

12/13 - 8 (M) 0 (I) 3 (L)
11/12 - 13 (M) 10 (I)
10/11 - 10 (M) 5 (I)

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 26-06-2013 05:24PM

tbh, one thing that would concern me about POC being named captain is the fact that 2015 is a long way away. And while there are no signs of it yet he experience a dramatic drop in his ability over the space of a season

Age gets to all players, and when the rot sets in it can take hold very quick, Doug Howlett's decline in the space of a season with Munster is a good example

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 26-06-2013 05:30PM

Bogota wrote: »

I'd keep the captaincy with Heaslip too. Some of the criticism was completely OTT. I would always take comments on players like Heaslip or Sexton on here with bit of salt. Some people just can't stand the fact that after years of trying to put them down both players are still world class and starting Lions.

Sexton and Heaslip are among the two most praised players on this board and rightly so really, two of Irelands best and among the best in their position

If you think they get a raw deal here I really wouldn't advice reading MF's

P.Walnuts · 26-06-2013 05:32PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Sexton and Heaslip are among the two most praised players on this board

The number 1 most praised player being of course Jordi Murphy

Bogota · 26-06-2013 06:22PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

The number 1 most praised player being of course Jordi Murphy

Like I said, I think hes a better player than POM and I stand by it. POM is better now because hes had a full season starting and hes improved immeasurably. Once Murphy dislodges Jennings/McLaughlin then I think we'll see a similar improvement. I don't think POM would be where hes at now if he had been at Leinster with that backrow simply because his starts would have been limited. The fact that he had no one competing with him meant that he had a consistent run of big games which allowed him to develop into an international standard player.

I don't think its worthy of such mocking to say that if Murphy had been at Munster then Murphy would be a better than POM is now. That's my opinion from watching the two players. I can't really see where, other than the lineout, POM is actually better at doing something than Murphy. I think the only difference between the two is big game experience.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 26-06-2013 06:23PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

The number 1 most praised player being of course Jordi Murphy

Bogota wrote: »

Like I said, I think hes a better player than POM and I stand by it. POM is better now because hes had a full season starting and hes improved immeasurably. Once Murphy dislodges Jennings/McLaughlin then I think we'll see a similar improvement. I don't think POM would be where hes at now if he had been at Leinster with that backrow simply because his starts would have been limited. The fact that he had no one competing with him meant that he had a consistent run of big games which allowed him to develop into an international standard player.

I don't think its worthy of such mocking to say that if Murphy had been at Munster then Murphy would be a better than POM is now. That's my opinion from watching the two players. I can't really see where, other than the lineout, POM is actually better at doing something than Murphy. I think the only difference between the two is big game experience.

Not this again

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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