Dodgy Sky boxes

Skull Murphy · 21-06-2013 1:42am

Hippy! The 60s are over man!

excollier · 21-06-2013 8:35am

Skull Murphy wrote: »

There but by the grace of God etc.

Excollier, do you code Linux yourself? Or just rely on others to provide your OS?

Do you pay a UK tv licence? Help fund "free" sat?

Relying on the goodwill of others or just pure good luck is no reason to feel smug. Hope you read this before its deleted.

Certainly no smugness on my part. Simply highlighting a truth.
No, I don't code linux myself, but I paid for enough versions of Windows over the years. I do contribute a small amount to the funds of linux distros that I use.
And coming, originally, from England I spent decades paying the licence fee there, so I feel have contributed, albeit in some small way. Not that this gives me any entitlement. If Freesat becomes paysat tomorrow, then that's too bad. I'll survive without tv.
The fact that Freesat/fta satellite tv and linux exist for free is indeed fortunate, and I am very grateful for them. Long may they continue. They are not life essential though, are they?
Why on earth would I pay for something that is freely available?
Why would I not point out these facts to others?
Doesn't change the fact that the only satellite pay tv provider in these islands smothers the fact that a lot of what's on the satellite is actually free, and turns a fortune from ignorance. Many, if not most, believe that to watch satellite tv you have to get, and subscribe to, Sky. A sad fact.
I ditched Sky even before OnDigital (now Freeview) first started transmitting. Freesat is a very welcome bonus.
As soon as I tried out linux, I ditched Windows.
I humbly apologise for accepting and using the free alternatives, and having the audacity to point it out to others.

icdg · 21-06-2013 8:42pm

Just to explain about Dreamboxes, since its been mentioned, we have no problem with them being discussed in Satellite or Terrestrial as long as they are kept to their legitimate use as free to air receivers. Discussion of Dreamboxes is totally banned in Cable/MMDS

The reason it is totally banned in Cable/MMDS is that there is, in the absence of UPC offering a CAM, no legitimate use of ANY third party DVB-C receiver on the UPC network. If/when UPC offer a CAM, we'll reconsider this stance. There was a massive outbreak of what was known as "dodgeyboxes" - mostly Dreamboxes who were able to decode a version of Nagravision which had been cracked - a few years ago.

Of course everyone using these forgot that anyone who is stealing cable is reliant on enough people PAYING for the service in order for the service provider to stay in business. If everyone followed their lead, and stopped paying, pretty soon the service provider would go out of business and they'd have no service either.

mad turnip · 21-06-2013 8:57pm

icdg wrote: »

Just to explain about Dreamboxes, since its been mentioned, we have no problem with them being discussed in Satellite or Terrestrial as long as they are kept to their legitimate use as free to air receivers. Discussion of Dreamboxes is totally banned in Cable/MMDS

The reason it is totally banned in Cable/MMDS is that there is, in the absence of UPC offering a CAM, no legitimate use of ANY third party DVB-C receiver on the UPC network. If/when UPC offer a CAM, we'll reconsider this stance. There was a massive outbreak of what was known as "dodgeyboxes" - mostly Dreamboxes who were able to decode a version of Nagravision which had been cracked - a few years ago.

Of course everyone using these forgot that anyone who is stealing cable is reliant on enough people PAYING for the service in order for the service provider to stay in business. If everyone followed their lead, and stopped paying, pretty soon the service provider would go out of business and they'd have no service either.

I was under the impression sky don't offer CAM's either?

Manc-Red · 21-06-2013 9:00pm

I will never subscribe to the notion that these massive providers have sky-high pricing because of the fact there is folk out there getting the service from some area of the black market.

I genuinely can't blame anyone for going the route of the "cheaper option" - Prices are grotesque now, especially for Premium/HD packages.

Manc-Red · 21-06-2013 9:01pm

mad turnip wrote: »

I was under the impression sky don't offer CAM's either?

A cam doesn't have to be hardware.

mad turnip · 21-06-2013 9:03pm

Manc-Red wrote: »

A cam doesn't have to be hardware.

Even the software type, there is none officially released by sky it just so happens sky uk uses the same modulation techniques that are used all over Europe.

Manc-Red · 21-06-2013 9:06pm

mad turnip wrote: »

Even the software type, there is none officially released by sky it just so happens sky uk uses the same modulation techniques that are used all over Europe.

Turnip, we all know this - this thread could easily go wayward of what we are allowed to discuss.

Our mod I'm sure was just reminding us of this - thats all.

Manc-Red · 21-06-2013 9:13pm

jmcc wrote: »

Possibly a way of hardening the CAM against software emulation. When they have the full subscriberbase upgraded, they can move to newer protocols and perhaps a new smartcard release towards the end of the switchover. It will be marketed as an upgrade rather than a switchover.

Certain receivers including most SD boxes & Thompson HD Boxes cannot handle the software upgrade apparently currently being rolled out by Sly, these as you've said will be marketed as an "upgrade" for those they contact.

I'd say there is a card change due that these boxes will struggle with, others have said that these boxes could have the answer a hacker is after if they take the software update & get the upcoming card change.

Thoughts?

mad turnip · 21-06-2013 9:14pm

Manc-Red wrote: »

Turnip, we all know this - this thread could easily go wayward of what we are allowed to discuss.

Our mod I'm sure was just reminding us of this - thats all.

Yes I understand all that perfectly clear, but some forums on this site vary so much. I like how this forum is quite strict but some other forums pretty much scream torrenting not to mention threads about people refusing to pay various charges while clearly breaking the law (and in some cases giving details on how to do it). It really just confuses the hell out of me, clearly torrenting in some cases has become the norm for some people and here we have this thread discussing how large of an issue card sharing is which is equally as big problem and all discussion in this forum is banned while quite a few other forums sit by and all ridiculous threads to progress. I'm just really confused on boards mostly......

(I've even seen a mods post this week giving what could be considered breaking the rules)

swoofer · 22-06-2013 12:02am

I have 2 thompson boxes and one wont take the new software, the other did but wont show BBC HD and I just gave up ie whats the point but if they can be made to work again that would be sweet ie a handy standby. and i could sell them on

NIMAN · 22-06-2013 5:41pm

Jez, this thread still open? Good to see.

Mr Guinness. · 23-06-2013 7:56pm

I have a free to air box in one of the bedrooms.i want to put a sky box in do I have to get sky to install or can I do it myself i have a sky box.

Trick of the Tail · 23-06-2013 9:21pm

Not really the thread for this type of advice, we're discussing the ramifications and effects or the current wave of receivers that are available which circumvent, shall we say, the need to pay for Sky premium services.

Steal them, as it were.

However, a satellite receiver is a satellite receiver. If you have a Sky receiver with an active card, it will work if you plug it into your existing dish. If you have no active card it will function as a freesat receiver, showing you only the free to air channels.

NIMAN · 24-06-2013 10:44am

The Premier League want to block a popular streaming site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23004880

wil · 24-06-2013 12:59pm

Navarre wrote: »

I remember years ago back in the days of analogue sky,some guys were supplying chipped cards to decode the sky signal. As far as I remember sky brought someone in Ireland to court and they lost the case as what this guy was doing in the judges eyes was not illegal at the time in Ireland. So what sky done then to counter act this was to change their signal 3 times a year that only their cards can receive it, that meant that people were paying once off payment £100 for cards that only worked for 4 months. I don't know what they can do now to stop this card sharing but I hope they do something soon. Its not just dreamboxes either as far as I know it's any type of box that has internet capabilities like the Ferguson Arivas and the Amiko aliens that are been used.

Surprised that no one has clarified this, (apols if I missed it). How quickly people forget and history is revised, retold and repeated.
poorly paraphrasing
A former Hiberno English (how could I call him Anglo Irish:eek: today) Dublin pirate radio owner and Radio Caroline d'jay, (deceased) was jailed for 4 years for his chipped Sky card manufacturing operating out of DL Shopping centre, previously shut down in Surrey.

In the mid 90s a very sizeable proportion of Sky subs moved to these chipped cards, when they were openly sold in car boot sales etc.
My hazy young anecdotal recollection was that after this high profile businessman unexpectedly receiving a custodial sentence, the sale of these cards just stopped with people genuinely afraid of prosecution.
And again hazily, the prehistory of these cards was AFAIR a decryption algorithm or method devised by a Waterford IT lecturer? as an academic response to Skys supposedly uncrackable encryption.
At the time allegedly Sky thought their encryption was so good, it disbanded it's development team, having to play catchup a few years later.
Encryption and pay models will always have to develop as there will always be someone to come up with novel, clever, social or brute force subversion methods

icdg · 24-06-2013 8:28pm

mad turnip wrote: »

I was under the impression sky don't offer CAM's either?

They don't. The difference is that there are free to air channels on satellite. However, you must have a cable subscription to receive any channels on cable.

STB · 24-06-2013 9:42pm

mad turnip wrote: »

I was under the impression sky don't offer CAM's either?

Offer.

Sky the TV subscription service do not allow/supply CAMS. Its against the T&C of your agreement as an end user. You must use their proprietary box according to those T&C's

Sky the broadcaster and rights holder for Sky Sports 1 and 2 had to allow TopUpTv (an add on to Freeview Channels) use CI+ Cams in the UK following Ofcom's ruling. These CAMS can only be used in certain "approved" TV's.

Smit NDS CAMS are now widely used on the continent in CI+ enabled deices by both Cable and Satellite broadcasters.

STB · 24-06-2013 9:54pm

wil wrote: »

Surprised that no one has clarified this, (apols if I missed it). How quickly people forget and history is revised, retold and repeated.
poorly paraphrasing
A former Hiberno English (how could I call him Anglo Irish:eek: today) Dublin pirate radio owner and Radio Caroline d'jay, (deceased) was jailed for 4 years for his chipped Sky card manufacturing operating out of DL Shopping centre, previously shut down in Surrey.

In the mid 90s a very sizeable proportion of Sky subs moved to these chipped cards, when they were openly sold in car boot sales etc.
My hazy young anecdotal recollection was that after this high profile businessman unexpectedly receiving a custodial sentence, the sale of these cards just stopped with people genuinely afraid of prosecution.
And again hazily, the prehistory of these cards was AFAIR a decryption algorithm or method devised by a Waterford IT lecturer? as an academic response to Skys supposedly uncrackable encryption.
At the time allegedly Sky thought their encryption was so good, it disbanded it's development team, having to play catchup a few years later.
Encryption and pay models will always have to develop as there will always be someone to come up with novel, clever, social or brute force subversion methods

Ah the late "Harry". Chris was a radio genius...

The afore mentioned Waterford chap I think you are referring to is John McCormac who is already posting in this thread. I guess he knows what he is talking about

banjacksed · 25-06-2013 9:09am

Just out of interest, if these "boxes" are so illegal as people put it, Then why are they being sold so openly and over the counter in satellite shops accross the country and when i say over the counter i mean ready to go plug and play ?

I remember a program on rte i think it was last week about knock off handbags and the cameras being around the dublin city centre for people selling them, A lot of coverage on tv about clone handbags !

If these boxes are so illegal then why has no one being prosecuted over them or are they illegal in fact ?

Im sure if the saorview service was encrypted and ppv and so called dodgy boxes were available to view these channels there would be uproar.....

lertsnim · 25-06-2013 10:39am

banjacksed wrote: »

Just out of interest, if these "boxes" are so illegal as people put it, Then why are they being sold so openly and over the counter in satellite shops accross the country and when i say over the counter i mean ready to go plug and play ?

I remember a program on rte i think it was last week about knock off handbags and the cameras being around the dublin city centre for people selling them, A lot of coverage on tv about clone handbags !

If these boxes are so illegal then why has no one being prosecuted over them or are they illegal in fact ?

Im sure if the saorview service was encrypted and ppv and so called dodgy boxes were available to view these channels there would be uproar.....

The boxes are not illegal

zg3409 · 25-06-2013 10:39am

Card sharing is illegal, theft of service.

However their main target is those running the servers, or at least the ability to cancel the valid cards they are using. If they could detect the card number, they could cancel it.

However I think at the moment, as suggeted, they are more working towards a valid box upgrade, which would permanently solve the problem (until another work around)

Like fly swatting, they are not swatting the flies, but closing the window.

banjacksed · 25-06-2013 12:29pm

lertsnim wrote: »

The boxes are not illegal

Are they not?

lertsnim · 25-06-2013 12:31pm

banjacksed wrote: »

Are they not?

No. It is the card sharing that is illegal.

The VU+ Duo for example isn't a plug and play device. It needs to be tweaked before any card sharing can happen with it. Straight out of the box it wont do it for you.

banjacksed · 25-06-2013 12:41pm

zg3409 wrote: »

Card sharing is illegal, theft of service.

However their main target is those running the servers, or at least the ability to cancel the valid cards they are using. If they could detect the card number, they could cancel it.

However I think at the moment, as suggeted, they are more working towards a valid box upgrade, which would permanently solve the problem (until another work around)

Like fly swatting, they are not swatting the flies, but closing the window.

Well if its theft why arent they walking into the satellite shops selling them over the counter plug and play?

Everyone is spouting "theft of service" but not one person here seems to know the actual score .

so therefore its theft on a massive scale, and no one is doing anything about it in Ireland. I think myself there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Dont get me wrong im just trying to work out what the score is.
If this was an irish company that was so called being robbed of service well im sure something would of being done long ago, Is this the problem that sky is an english / foreign broadcaster that markets their products on the island of Ireland, As i said allready if it were rte that was subjected to theft of service something would have being done long ago even if it was a few prosecutions in the courts to get peoples attention.

recyclebin · 25-06-2013 1:15pm

The boxes themselves are not illegal. It's what the software does is that is illegal/theft/breaks terms of contract or whatever technical term you want to use.

The boxes you buy in shops do not have the software to get these channels. You put the software on yourself or someone does it for you after you take the box home.

A laptop isn't illegal yet I can connect it the internet, install software and download music, films , other software for free. It's the software that makes it illegal.

flutered · 25-06-2013 2:40pm

lertsnim wrote: »

No. It is the card sharing that is illegal.

The VU+ Duo for example isn't a plug and play device. It needs to be tweaked before any card sharing can happen with it. Straight out of the box it wont do it for you.

vu+ boxes are a highly intelligent yoke, but it requires a rather intelligent robot to get it working to its highest ability.

mad turnip · 25-06-2013 4:07pm

banjacksed wrote: »

Well if its theft why arent they walking into the satellite shops selling them over the counter plug and play?

Everyone is spouting "theft of service" but not one person here seems to know the actual score .

so therefore its theft on a massive scale, and no one is doing anything about it in Ireland. I think myself there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Dont get me wrong im just trying to work out what the score is.
If this was an irish company that was so called being robbed of service well im sure something would of being done long ago, Is this the problem that sky is an english / foreign broadcaster that markets their products on the island of Ireland, As i said allready if it were rte that was subjected to theft of service something would have being done long ago even if it was a few prosecutions in the courts to get peoples attention.

I'd say quite a few people can give information on why its such a huge issue and the word "cardsharing" doesn't even cover the main underlying issue. Any posters capable of giving detailed information will likely just be infracted in my opinion.

gazzer · 25-06-2013 5:20pm

Does this whole "Cardsharing is going end" not come up every few months though? Its been going on for years so I imagine if Sky could stop it they would have a long time ago.

excollier · 25-06-2013 5:23pm

They have an awful lot of hardware to change before it can be fully enforced. It will happen though.

Dodgy Sky boxes

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