It's PanDENmonium! [Off Topic Chat]

Jhcx wrote: »

Feel like a child again lol. On my second episode forgot how much i loved the show. :pac:

It was pretty good after all,maybe I'm just old and bitter now,ignorance is bliss and all that crap..

Geekness1234 wrote: »

I watched Prison Break weekly on RTE,and nothing could ever beat the hype surrounding the weekly episode,getting all nostalgic now..

Nostalgia was so much better back then too. :P

But yeah, PB was probably the last show I watched every week. It's the last show that I genuinely couldn't wait for the next series to start. I haven't felt that way about a show since. Now I just watch something on Netflix, and don't think about it any more.

in a way it's kind of sad that that's the way TV is going. Like, take Love/Hate, no one talked about that until series 3, then it was the biggest thing ever for like 6 weeks, and all anyone said was "Yerra sure, I'll wait and get the boxset."

TV WAS BETTER IN MY DAY! BACK WHEN IT WAS NETWORK 2! NONE OF THIS RTE TWO NONSENSE!

/disjointed thoughts

doovdela wrote: »

More like don't rain on my parade...silly rain! Arragh will the postie hopefully get it right this summer!? Here's hoping for a warm summer again! More likely we already had our summer!

Ah shur we got two weeks, what more do you want! This isn't San Trope (that's a sunny place right? ) :pac:

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Nostalgia was so much better back then too. :P

"

TV WAS BETTER IN MY DAY! BACK WHEN IT WAS NETWORK 2! NONE OF THIS RTE TWO NONSENSE!

/disjointed thoughts

Nostalgia at its best. I remember the Millennium like it was 2 days ago.
Network Two Fire



I'll just leave this here as well

doovdela wrote: »

Ya we were very lucky with the two weeks!

TBH,I think I did enough summer-y stuff in those two weeks than I've done in my life!

Jhcx wrote: »

I ask myself that most mornings when i get up at 4am. and look at my watch and it 9am. If any of ye dont believe me its the last week of June. Next week is July :eek: . 2013 already finished with nearly.

Also i broke 1K. delighted. being on 2K

My sleep cycle is ridiculously bad..
There is still a bit left in 2013 now lads,I stopped posting for a good while after I broke 1000 posts.

I still call it Network 2. So do the rest of the family.

My claim to fame is being on The Den's birthday thing when I was 5 or 6.

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I once got a shout out on the Den because I had chicken pox. :P

Christ, it's sad that I remember that...

And I thought I was the only famous one around here....

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

I kinda see where you're coming from in your first sentence, but I have difficulty with it. It would seem ridiculous to say that killing a person is a better option than letting them eventually develop a disease and dying slowly, so I'm not sure how we could allow it in animals. I said 'death' but I meant premature death, y'know what I mean! :P Yeah I dunno how I feel about animals in human care. Animals that aren't exploited are probably fine mostly? Having pets seems grand to me (even though there are vegans who are opposed to it). I wouldn't say farm animals are treated like pets, though. Now, I'd agree that much of the time most cows are treated grand in Ireland, and spend most of their time doing what they'd always do anyway, but there are lots of times when they aren't, and that's inevitable in farming, so I think that might make it unacceptable overall. Pigs aren't treated well, and large poultry farms are awful (I've only been on one to be fair, and it was free range). Animals do well in human care, but I don't know if farming counts as 'care'. Bad things happen, and they don't have to happen for me to eat or drink or be healthy or happy, so why should they!

So your issue there is with the premature death?, humane killing before the old-age suffering begins is what you have the problem with? Not trying to twist this into some sort of emotional and ethical battle, but ultimately their death is going to be determined by us, same as putting down a pet, etc. There is however a difference between farming and pets, determined by economics of course. But you're also saying that there may be some cases of unacceptable treatment, while it is obviously the case that mistreatment could occur everywhere- farms, pets, zoos, even human mistreatment. I will defend to the hilt that farming counts as care, the number of negligent farmers is small enough I'd imagine you'd find.

As it turns out, I am aware that cows don't roam wild. But the fact that don't roam wild can't be used to justify using cows n' stuff?? You said to Lawliet "As regards using animals at all, that's the way the world works I'm afraid, they'd surely be extinct anyway if they weren't used in farming". I'm saying that their hypothetical extinction has nothing to do with using them and abusing them (at times), other than maybe saying that 'the only reason they were born is to be farmed', and, again, that doesn't justify using them. By the way "That's the way the world works" could be used to qualify anything at all as acceptable??

I'd appreciate less of your condescension if you don't mind! Your only argument seems to be that in some cases there is mistreatment of the animals, which is obviously going to be the case, and this is indeed the case in every aspect of society, abuse of power to the detriment of others.

Perhaps there might have been a minor amount of sensationalism, a little bit, maybe, I guess...! But don't say I didn't warn you with an "emotive-words-for-the-lolz alert" :P I dunno if considering it 'employment' is any more reasonable than considering it slavery, though? I spent my childhood farming, so I'm familiar with animal breeding. Saying that bulls would rape them anyway doesn't mean we can. Now! I said 'Rape', which is a strong word, and AI is not a totally horrific an experience, but technically it is rape. The pregnancy following it is the ordeal that I really have difficulty with. OH also castration is a horrible thing to witness

Being a vegetarian (and sometimes feeling like going vegan) for me is kind of about extending my behaviour towards people, to other animals. If something's unacceptable towards people, it's probably unacceptable towards animals too, as far as I can see.

The connotations of the word slavery are inappropriate to what actually happens on farms, and I resent the use of that particular word towards it. You might see it as slavery, but we'll have to agree to disagree there. As regards the bulls vs AI, if they are not put in calf they will be culled, there's no two ways about it. Maybe the "rape" of AI would be considered preferable to death. Pregnancy shouldn't be considered an ordeal, it's a perfectly natural process? Castration is a simple procedure, lasting several seconds at most, probably causes a certain degree of pain in fairness, but reduces the danger of the animals to humans, and prevents unwanted pregnancies.

As regards the human vs animal point, it's not really appropriate to compare us, it has to be admitted that we are vastly more advanced in relation to cognitive function, emotional experiences and general thought and feeling. The physical treatment is the only area where they are similar, in responsiveness to pain, and that's where appropriate treatment of the animals comes into it.

Yeah but I think we'd be fooling ourselves to accept the lives of all animals on farms as fulfilling and content.

Oh, and I don't know anything about the environmental stuff, but apparently veganism is good for that too!



Can we at least agree that battery farms are cruel and horrible, and we should never buy their eggs?!

How would their lives be more fulfilled or content? All animals are born to reproduce and continue their genes to the next generation, in dairy farming the cows are producing calves, milk, have a constant food supply, healthcare, shelter, what lengths would you extend their lives to in terms of things they may achieve?

It's not necessarily veganism that's good for the environment, but rather the way in which the food is produced- machinery involved, fuels used, packaging and all that jazz.

Battery farms are indeed horrible, but one would wonder just how much mental stimulation and variation a chicken would need, and what sort of cognitive levels they work on.

Not to rain on this ostensibly intelligent discussion but all will be for naught once the singularity occurs and we are enslaved by our self-perpetuating emotionless creations.

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

@Paly, whispering so as not to annoy everyone else:

Sure that's their problem! They should change or introduce some other subject if they feel a need, we could do with more discussions in here!

Sorry for the sarcasm, I got carried away :-P You seem to recognise certain things as acceptable: abuse of power, the fact that cows which aren't in calf will be culled, etc. because 'that's the way the world works', and I accept that this is the way things have worked up to now, but vegetarianism is an effort to change that, or at least to limit it. It's a boycott towards an industry that is considered unethical because of various reasons including, and not limited to certain cases of obvious animal abuse. To say that all animals exist just to reproduce makes all life really pointless. Humans (not a comparison, but an inclusion, here) are animals too, but those who choose not to reproduce or who are unable to are no less important than those who do reproduce. Animals don't just have a function or a task, like a tool. We are sentient, complex, three dimensional beings, and we (animals of all kinds) should be granted the freedoms to live our lives as we like (without harming others, of course). Reproduction is more incidental than an actual purpose in my view anyway.

It's what's considered ethical by each individual that's the problem, we can both agree on that, as Lawliet mentioned earlier. But then there's no way that they'd ever be agreed on, whatever system that could be used to quantify it all, be it formal axiology or something, the result would never be accepted. I probably should have used survival or continuity, rather than reproduction, you get where I'm coming from with my view anyway, we're not all destined to be born and all that jazz.

I think a big difference / the main difference for us seems to be how we see animals compared to us. We are more advanced, but like I said a while back I think sometimes we tend to overestimate this, and treat animals like robots even though they do experience emotion and stuff. Cows, apparently, have best friends and miss them when they aren't there, which is kinda cool! Pigs are supposedly very intelligent, and pig farming can be awful! Chickens are probably a bit thick, in fairness, but I expect that they would be happier living without the cramped conditions and everything else. Like, having a pet chicken and eating those eggs doesn't seem like a very bad thing to me though... So yeah I'd still behave well towards a person without proper brain function, so I think we should do the same for animals. I dunno, maybe autonomy should be part of it, because animals can't give consent either.

It's not really feasible to treat animals the same way we treat humans, without communication we're essentially just working on appearance, so we can only do so much to make them comfortable with adequate treatment I suppose, (and by adequate I don't mean scraping the bottom of tolerable limits for them). Anyway you're probably sick of me now at this stage..

Anyone else notice how people have problems but their two different world's apart. rich people are liars and dishonest with hidden secrets and issues in their family but portray as if everything is Ok and it never happened. And the common person is open, torn and strong. Missing a mother or a father. Growing up with abuse living on the edge of always fighting . Maybe that's just the way it's told in the media nut it also looks that way to the naked eye. Like rappers are the best at what they do because they tell of a life story of pain and suffering and anger. When do you hear rich people cursing the crap out of their father or speaking the truth. But it's great at the end of the day we can all relate and understand because even though in different forms we understand that no family is perfect and it's just a matter of whether we're willing to face the truth and not hide behind the wall.

People may laugh but I was going to work and an add came on and ten a song it got me thing making I would love to save become top of my game a millionaire and buy/set up a charity organisation like childline and just have all the right things in place like a large call staff and the proper protection. It may be a loss making thing but what charity makes money. Plus at the end of the day it would be my project to aim at helping.

Ahh ya their my dreams but I always fight for my dreams and it's my gear to keep driving me forward

Anyone from Cork know if there's any possible late-ish public transport?

I'm goin to the National gig from Galway but I duno how I'm gunna get home If I get even get to Dublin I'd be grand!

Also, could anyone show me where the Marquee is on Google Maps? Struggling to find it!

Also, again, in the event I can't get a bus, does anyone know of any decent but fairly cheap places to stay near the Marquee? I've never been to Cork, hence my general confusion/scaredness

Ever seen a human run at 25mph pretty fcked up freaky