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Police asking for Personal details

245

Comments

  • #32
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Incidentally, just to be clear; I have utmost respect for Law Enforcement, even to the point of considering joining once I become a citizen, however I have greater respect for the rights of the citizen. Exercising your rights should not be viewed with suspicion.


  • #33
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    MadsL wrote: »
    I don't give my phone number to strangers (unless they are very attractive) do you?

    Not complying with an illegal request from a police officer =/= being a douche. You are well within your rights to establish your identity and then ask to leave.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jun/09/what-information-am-i-obliged-to-give-to-a-policeman

    I was in the airport once and asked to show my passport, name and address. They did a PnC check, took 2 mins and I was on my merry way. No need in these situations to start refusing to provide information, asking if I'm being detained etc as it makes no ones life easier.


  • #34
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    I was in the airport once and asked to show my passport, name and address. They did a PnC check, took 2 mins and I was on my merry way. No need in these situations to start refusing to provide information, asking if I'm being detained etc as it makes no ones life easier.

    Did they ask for your phone number?

    Thought not.

    Is there a limit to the personal information you would give up if asked? Name of your partner? Where you work? Name of your boss?

    Just wondering

    And I have already shown you one of the circumstances under which I would refuse to answer, did you not read that?

    Also, was this at a police/immigration/passport control desk or randomly inside the airport?


  • #35
    qaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ✭qaf


    MadsL wrote: »
    Perhaps you might actually think about what your rights are, rather than just doing as you are told. I'm happy to be protected by the US Constitution rather than living in the proto-police state that is the UK (and Ireland which is increasingly becoming one too.)

    You haven't had too much interaction with US police obviously. The charge the US police commonly use to arrest people at will is the disorderly conduct charge or the other all time favorite is the resisting arrest charge that remains after all the other charges are dropped. That is also known as getting charged for getting angry that you were getting arrested for no reason in the first place.

    This is before you even consider that the court system in the US is typically so busy that you are likely to be put on some type of pretrial probation after your initial arraignment for months before you get your big day in court. The big day being likely that some assistant district attorney threatens you with jail time in the hallway of the courthouse to make you cop to some suspended sentence or probation followed by dismissal.

    This is before you even get into how trigger happy the US police are and how the police shootings are investigated by elected district attorneys that are practically on television before the body is cold saying it looks like a clean shooting.

    Most people in the world I would imagine would rather live in a country where the biggest inconvenience is getting asked your name and address once in a blue moon instead of having the parents of kids with mental/emotional problems worried to call the police because they are scarred the cops will end up killing their kid, or the parents of some pothead having their house surrounded by a bunch of Rambo cops because their kid had a warrant taken out on him because he didn't pay a $200 fine.


  • #36
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Soby wrote: »
    On a flight home from Edinburgh today police officer who I was stand beside just after the security check (was waiting for colleagues to get their belongings ) just randomly says hello asks can he get a few details off me.

    Name
    Address
    Contact number
    Flight Info

    Was kinda so baffled by it I forgot to ask why but just being me gave it all. Was very weird. Any reason why men women and Ogres of AH ?

    Not weird at all to be honest. He was most likely carrying out spot checks and checking reactions. Standard practice, nothing more.

    You just tell him what he wants to know and be done.

    Why can't police just do their jobs with about questioned?


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  • #37
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Why can't police just do their jobs with about questioned?

    To be fair to MadsL, I can see where he's coming from - look at our own police force and its track record - the recent incidents of them apparently happily handing over confidential data on citizens for the Minister's personal/political point-scoring for example. There's a definite need for "questioning" there (the fact it rarely happens, or is ineffective when it does is another matter!). There should ALWAYS be effective independent oversight and review of the police.

    Just because someone has a badge does not automatically make them somehow "better" than you to where you must automatically comply with any question or request/demand made. Don't forget their primary role is to protect and serve the public, not intimidate and harass them.

    That said, responding as MadsL suggests is more than likely going to lead to an escalation of the situation given the police are used to ordinary joe public rolling over and the associated "god complex" that brings out in some of them (plenty of the latter type here in Ireland too!)


  • #38
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    you were at an airport and someone asked you security questions....baffling!


  • #39
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    To be fair to MadsL, I can see where he's coming from - look at our own police force and its track record - the recent incidents of them apparently happily handing over confidential data on citizens for the Minister's personal/political point-scoring for example. There's a definite need for "questioning" there (the fact it rarely happens, or is ineffective when it does is another matter!). There should ALWAYS be effective independent oversight and review of the police.

    Just because someone has a badge does not automatically make them somehow "better" than you to where you must automatically comply with any question or request/demand made. Don't forget their primary role is to protect and serve the public, not intimidate and harass them.

    That said, responding as MadsL suggests is more than likely going to lead to an escalation of the situation given the police are used to ordinary joe public rolling over and the associated "god complex" that brings out in some of them (plenty of the latter type here in Ireland too!)

    Very true. But what MadsL suggested was not intimidation or harrasment. It was a policeman doing his job.

    Getting smart/cheeking or refusing to comply is the biggest mistake you could make, unless you want to appear guilty of something.

    And please don't start with the garda-bashing/tarring with one brush - it's unecessary, wrong and irrelevant.


  • #40
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    And please don't start with the garda-bashing/tarring with one brush - it's unecessary, wrong and irrelevant.

    Have another read of what I wrote.. where did I say it applies to all of them?

    The facts are though that there are far too many of our boys n girls in blue who are not fit for purpose for a variety of reasons and these individuals only serve to blacken the name of the force and the good work that IS done by their colleagues.

    Unfortunately this problem seems to be systemic given some of the current Commissioner's actions - something many of the Gardai themselves have a problem with!

    Respect (for anyone, not just the police) is earned not just given.


  • #41
    Plazaman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭Plazaman


    About 7 or 8 years ago after a holiday in Edinburgh, about 8 of us were flying home from Glasgow. Two of us had a drink in the bar beforehand but nothing major and no drunkeness was involved. As we got to the security area and these two racist knobs from the Strathclyde Police decided to pull the píss out of us with questions and smart remarks to our answers (i.e. oh ye were in Edinburgh, on the piss for the week eh?....probably didn't like our food did ye, no potatoes?....did ye see the Castle from the pub windows?).

    Forced smiles and calm answers from us got us through.


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  • #42
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    MadsL wrote: »

    Perhaps you might actually think about what your rights are, rather than just doing as you are told. I'm happy to be protected by the US Constitution rather than living in the proto-police state that is the UK (and Ireland which is increasingly becoming one too.)

    Hmmmm

    Would this be the same USofA That has recently been caught spying on it's citizens?

    Would this be the same USofA That has KILLED it's own citizens in a foreign country?

    Would this be the same USofA That can hold kidnap you and hold you indefinitely without trial or access to a lawyer?

    Would this be the same USofA That just throws the word "TERRORISM" into a sentence and this gives them the right to do what ever they wish?

    Yeah seriously guy at the moment your so called constitution is worth less than toilet paper . The USA is more like a police state than any Euro country.


  • #43
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Have another read of what I wrote.. where did I say it applies to all of them?

    The facts are though that there are far too many of our boys n girls in blue who are not fit for purpose for a variety of reasons and these individuals only serve to blacken the name of the force and the good work that IS done by their colleagues.

    Unfortunately this problem seems to be systemic given some of the current Commissioner's actions - something many of the Gardai themselves have a problem with!

    Respect (for anyone, not just the police) is earned not just given.

    You mentioned their track record, as if it was something they all share.

    And you mention that most of them aren't fit to work.

    That's just not true, the problem is a few bad apples spoil the lot but you can't allow the actions of a few to colour your view of them all.


  • #44
    KeithTS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    I was on my way to work, driving from Dublin to Limerick on Monday morning. There was a check point, my boot was searched and I was asked all about where I was going, who I worked for and a load of silly little questions.
    know what I did? I answered them, I was thanked and told to have a good day, it was painless.

    Some people here must have serious issues.
    It's a couple of questions, answer them and be done. If you don't want to give something like your phone number you could also ask what they want it for?
    Folk post pictures of their womb online when they're pregnant and give details of their bowel movements on an hourly basis so being asked where you live is hardly stressful.


  • #45
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    You mentioned their track record, as if it was something they all share.

    And you mention that most of them aren't fit to work.

    That's just not true, the problem is a few bad apples spoil the lot but you can't allow the actions of a few to colour your view of them all.

    As an organisation, yes they do. What's worse is that when one or two blew the whistle on the penalty points scandal for example, they were effectively ostracised by their "colleagues" and gagged by the commissioner himself which certainly suggests to me that it's more than a few involved.

    That's just the latest example, but there's many more.

    But this is going very O/T so I'll leave it there


  • #46
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »

    Why can't police just do their jobs with about questioned?

    Why can't people just go about their business without being questioned?


  • #47
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    KeithTS wrote: »
    I was on my way to work, driving from Dublin to Limerick on Monday morning. There was a check point, my boot was searched and I was asked all about where I was going, who I worked for and a load of silly little questions.
    know what I did? I answered them, I was thanked and told to have a good day, it was painless.

    Some people here must have serious issues.
    It's a couple of questions, answer them and be done. If you don't want to give something like your phone number you could also ask what they want it for?
    Folk post pictures of their womb online when they're pregnant and give details of their bowel movements on an hourly basis so being asked where you live is hardly stressful.

    ^^^BRAVO!

    This is what you do. I am not one of these "if you are innocent then you have nothing to hide brigade" but i am also not one who advocates wasting police time by refusing to answer questions. Simple fact is this....The gardai can stop you and ask questions and if you refuse then you can be arrested and held for questioning. The fact that they don't do this is a testament to their patience with dealing with idiots.


  • #48
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Simple fact is this....The gardai can stop you and ask questions and if you refuse then you can be arrested and held for questioning.

    The simple fact here is that you are wrong. You can not be arrested for simply refusing to answer questions.

    There are only a few very specific situations when a you are obliged to give your name and address to a Garda.

    As a citizen you have rights to protect you. You should learn what they are before you lose them


  • #49
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    RustyNut wrote: »
    The simple fact here is that you are wrong. You can not be arrested for simply refusing to answer questions.

    There are only a few very specific situations when a you are obliged to give your name and address to a Garda.

    As a citizen you have rights to protect you. You should learn what they are before you lose them
    Hmmmm

    This PDF from the Irish council of civil liberties says different


    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=refusing%20to%20answer%20gardai%20who%20stopped%20me%20ireland&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iccl.ie%2Fattachments%2Fdownload%2F101%2FKnow%2520Your%2520Rights%2520Criminal%2520Justice%2520and%2520Garda%2520Powers.pdf&ei=IHDBUfKcIOaP7Aao5oGIBQ&usg=AFQjCNH5cUxprBytt58GTcKmU9yCj86Z-w

    "If you do not give your name and address, A Garda may REQUIRE you to provide a name or address. For example, If a Garda suspects that you have committed a road traffic offense or a public order offense, The Garda can DEMAND your name and address. If you refuse to give your name and address you could be arrested.

    Are you saying you are right and they are wrong?:rolleyes:


  • #50
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Hmmmm

    This PDF from the Irish council of civil liberties says different


    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=refusing%20to%20answer%20gardai%20who%20stopped%20me%20ireland&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iccl.ie%2Fattachments%2Fdownload%2F101%2FKnow%2520Your%2520Rights%2520Criminal%2520Justice%2520and%2520Garda%2520Powers.pdf&ei=IHDBUfKcIOaP7Aao5oGIBQ&usg=AFQjCNH5cUxprBytt58GTcKmU9yCj86Z-w

    "If you do not give your name and address, A Garda may REQUIRE you to provide a name or address. For example, If a Garda suspects that you have committed a road traffic offense or a public order offense, The Garda can DEMAND your name and address. If you refuse to give your name and address you could be arrested.

    Are you saying you are right and they are wrong?:rolleyes:

    As I said, under very specific circumstances you are obliged to identify your self and rightly so,if you refuse or do not satisfy the member as to your I'd you can be arrested to allow the Garda to establish your identity, not for questioning.

    At no stage is refusal to answer questions reason to be arrested for questioning, in fact one of the first things you will be informed when getting arrested is that you have a right not to answer questions.


  • #51
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Hmmmm

    This PDF from the Irish council of civil liberties says different


    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=refusing%20to%20answer%20gardai%20who%20stopped%20me%20ireland&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iccl.ie%2Fattachments%2Fdownload%2F101%2FKnow%2520Your%2520Rights%2520Criminal%2520Justice%2520and%2520Garda%2520Powers.pdf&ei=IHDBUfKcIOaP7Aao5oGIBQ&usg=AFQjCNH5cUxprBytt58GTcKmU9yCj86Z-w

    "If you do not give your name and address, A Garda may REQUIRE you to provide a name or address. For example, If a Garda suspects that you have committed a road traffic offense or a public order offense, The Garda can DEMAND your name and address. If you refuse to give your name and address you could be arrested.

    Are you saying you are right and they are wrong?:rolleyes:
    RustyNut wrote: »
    As I said, under very specific circumstances you are obliged to identify your self and rightly so,if you refuse or do not satisfy the member as to your I'd you can be arrested to allow the Garda to establish your identity, not for questioning.

    At no stage is refusal to answer questions reason to be arrested for questioning, in fact one of the first things you will be informed when getting arrested is that you have a right not to answer questions.


    (1) Gardai asks you your name and address.

    (2) You refuse to supply this

    (3) Gardai arrest you and take you to the station

    (4)In the interview room Gardai ask you again for your name and address

    Is this not arresting you and questioning you?


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  • #52
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    I'd just give them basic harmless info, 3 mins of annoyance vs. god knows how much crap they could use to make it difficult for you if you insist on being a bleeding heart civil libertarian martyr. I'll leave obstructionism to the jobless unwashed hippy types, my time is valuable to me.


  • #53
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    bumper234 wrote: »
    (1) Gardai asks you your name and address.

    (2) You refuse to supply this

    (3) Gardai arrest you and take you to the station

    (4)In the interview room Gardai ask you again for your name and address

    Is this not arresting you and questioning you?

    Indeed it is, but under the circumstances you describe I would have a valid claim for wrongful arrest etc.


  • #54
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Why can't people just go about their business without being questioned?

    Because society i.e. us has decided that it is appropriate that we have a police force to protect us against dodgy geysers.

    One of the ways to establish if someone is a dodgy geyser is to ask a couple of questions and see how they respond.


  • #55
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Why can't people just go about their business without being questioned?

    Just like The 9/11 bombers you mean?


  • #56
    beans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    bumper234 wrote: »
    (1) Gardai asks you your name and address.

    (2) You refuse to supply this

    (3) Gardai arrest you and take you to the station

    (4)In the interview room Gardai ask you again for your name and address

    Is this not arresting you and questioning you?

    They have to arrest you for something other than (2). If they said "I have suspicion that you have violated law XYZ" at (1), then you'd be required to give your name. They cannot just say "give me your details" and demand you comply.


  • #57
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    beans wrote: »
    They have to arrest you for something other than (2). If they said "I have suspicion that you have violated law XYZ" at (1), then you'd be required to give your name. They cannot just say "give me your details" and demand you comply.

    I'm pretty sure they have to* tell under what Acts etc. they are questioning you, i.e. suspicion of carrying illegal weapons


    *Well, legally


  • #58
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    I am Sergeant of the House Ó Ceallacháin, Lord of My Bungalow and Freeman of Ireland.


  • #59
    beans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they have to* tell under what Acts etc. they are questioning you, i.e. suspicion of carrying illegal weapons


    *Well, legally

    Aye, that's what I was driving at. Careless driving, at that. I'd probably have to give my details in that case :)


  • #60
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Sergeant wrote: »
    I am Sergeant of the House Ó Ceallacháin, Lord of My Bungalow and Freeman of Ireland.

    When Mrs. Sergeant is not around , after the mortgage is paid , and should that be Freeman of NAMA


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  • #61
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    As fantastic as it would be to tell the cops to go and sh*te when they ask for your details the fact remains you are obliged to give them your name, address and a vague description of your movements. You do not have to give them your date of birth. The person quoting the Council of Civil Liberties was spot on. And in general if you point blank to give a name to the police they'll detain you until they establish your identity; possibly with a few slaps thrown in for good measure.


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