Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Swan Curry · 18-06-2013 02:05AM

I'd love to have heard what was said in the Leinster dressing room at half time in the 2011 HC final,before Ireland vs England in 2011,or before the match against Australia in the WC.I find it amazing what coaches and players can do in that short period of time.

Lelantos · 18-06-2013 11:19AM

Once the Lions tour is over, Best has to get in touch with Flannery again re his darts. It's all gone wrong bigtme, if he can't sort it out, he wont be part of Joe's starting side.

18-06-2013 11:22AM

Lelantos wrote: »

Once the Lions tour is over, Best has to get in touch with Flannery again re his darts. It's all gone wrong bigtme, if he can't sort it out, he wont be part of Joe's starting side.

Which is really, really, really disappointing.

It's reaching the problem of being a head issue. He's far too good a hooker to let this drag him down, but someone's gonna need to convince him of that.

ScissorPaperRock · 18-06-2013 11:26AM

Lelantos wrote: »

Once the Lions tour is over, Best has to get in touch with Flannery again re his darts. It's all gone wrong bigtme, if he can't sort it out, he wont be part of Joe's starting side.

Did Flannery coach him in the past?

Lelantos · 18-06-2013 11:31AM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Did Flannery coach him in the past?

There was talk of Fla helping the hookers last season, not sure if there was much in it. But, if ever there was a time for him to give a helping hand, it's now

Buer · 18-06-2013 11:32AM

Swan Curry wrote: »

I'd love to have heard what was said in the Leinster dressing room at half time in the 2011 HC final,

Apparently it was very calm and focused. The game plan was reiterated. Greg Feek got literally 2 minutes with the pack to identify the issues in the scrum. Cullen and Sexton spoke and it was back out.

Fireball07 · 18-06-2013 06:45PM

In relation to scrum-half, I was just thinking... what about Tomás O'Leary?? Do people envisage any situation in which he returns to the international fold, even if he recovers his form.

By all accounts, his form for London Irish before his injury was very good. He is 29 though, 30 this year. Obviously it would depend on him ironing out the flaws that lead him to be dropped in the first place.

I always thought it was a pity TOL decided to be a scrum-half, he had great pace, his pass would be okay anywhere else, and he was brilliant defensively....could have been a winger or full-back, maybe even a centre. I know he played all those positions at some stage. He had talent.

danthefan · 18-06-2013 06:47PM

If he gets back to 2009 pre-injury form then it would be remiss of the Irish management to not have a look at him.

Tbh I didn't see much of him at LI but I'd have to see to believe his form being good.

I know he's gone and it's in the past but mentioning TOL still gets me annoyed at Kidney. What a farce.

trouttrout · 18-06-2013 06:48PM

Nah, not at this stage anyway, we've got Murray who's basically a much improvedd version and Marshall/Boss/Reddan provide decent short term backup with McGrath/Marmion/Cooney/Sheridan all looking promising behind

Fireball07 · 18-06-2013 06:50PM

trouttrout wrote: »

Nah, not at this stage anyway, we've got Murray who's basically a much improvedd version and Marshall/Boss/Reddan provide decent short term backup with McGrath/Marmion/Cooney/Sheridan all looking promising behind

But if it came to a point where O'Leary was playing better than Marshall/Boss/Reddan? This is all in theory, of course. I really hope Marmion gets gametime under Schmidt.

I think TOL leaving was a blow to Munster...would have provided much better backup to Murray than Williams. Probably was a good move for him though.

Lelantos · 18-06-2013 07:28PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

But if it came to a point where O'Leary was playing better than Marshall/Boss/Reddan? This is all in theory, of course. I really hope Marmion gets gametime under Schmidt.

I think TOL leaving was a blow to Munster...would have provided much better backup to Murray than Williams. Probably was a good move for him though.

He can't provide back up if he's perma injured. Whenhe went for his op LI said it was an injury that had been inherited when he signed for them. He had the op end of Nov, start of Dec & there's a good chance he's not coming back anywhere near as good as before.

totallegend · 18-06-2013 07:43PM

Lelantos wrote: »

He can't provide back up if he's perma injured. Whenhe went for his op LI said it was an injury that had been inherited when he signed for them. He had the op end of Nov, start of Dec & there's a good chance he's not coming back anywhere near as good as before.

Wasn't the LI coach referring to his injury as degenerative? I wouldn't pin any hope on O'Leary coming back for either Munster or Ireland.

danthefan · 18-06-2013 07:47PM

totallegend wrote: »

Wasn't the LI coach referring to his injury as degenerative? I wouldn't pin any hope on O'Leary coming back for either Munster or Ireland.

Well he's two more years of a contract at LI anyway.

Lelantos · 18-06-2013 08:09PM

danthefan wrote: »

Well he's two more years of a contract at LI anyway.

Yep, as another poster stated, it was called a degenerative pre existing injury, and one they probably weren't fully aware of, or one that was more serious than was originally thought. Could be a long way back for him, If at all.

who_me · 18-06-2013 08:11PM

I think TOL would definitely be better for Munster than Williams, sadly. TOL had a great '09 season, but never recovered that form after the injury and I think his confidence tanked.

His passing technique was always poor, so in a way it was amazing he went as far as a Lions call-up in spite of it.

Foxtrol · 18-06-2013 10:39PM

who_me wrote: »

I think TOL would definitely be better for Munster than Williams, sadly. TOL had a great '09 season, but never recovered that form after the injury and I think his confidence tanked.

His passing technique was always poor, so in a way it was amazing he went as far as a Lions call-up in spite of it.

For TOL and LI sake I hope he is better than the third choice Munster scrum half.

AngeGal · 19-06-2013 12:46AM

Hagz wrote: »

True, I hadn't thought about that. Another thing I hadn't thought about until just now is that in bigger clubs such as Leicester and Munster, the coaches have less of a responsibility to motivate the players as they can just step back and let the senior heads do the talking, leaving them with more time to focus on the technical side of things. Whereas perhaps Elwood had to focus more of his attention towards keeping the inexperienced guys focused.

That's incorrect aswell, there is naturally senior players at Connacht, Muldoon, Duffy, Swift, etc. They obviously haven't won what senior players at Leinster and Munster have but I would expect that they are as respected within the walls of the dressing room as senior players at other clubs. The documentary itself featured a clip of a pre-game talk from Johnny O'Connor.

bilston · 19-06-2013 12:09PM

Just thinking about the Autumn tests.

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Brian O'Driscoll
12 Luke Marshall
11 Simon Zebo
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Conor Murray
1 Cian Healy
2 Rory Best/Ristardt Strauss (can't decide at the minute as both have had recent horror shows with the throwing)
3 Mike Ross
4 Donnacha Ryan
5 Paul O'Connell
6 Stephen Ferris/Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

Anyone else excited by what Joe could get out of that side in the Autumn. If they are all fit (unlikely if Fez's case) and on form (please God in the case of the hookers in particular) then is there any reason why we shouldn't be going for 3 from 3 including NZ?

Tox56 · 19-06-2013 12:18PM

We could just as easily go 0 from 3 as we could go 3 from 3. The way Schmidt gets his teams playing doesn't lend itself to instant success, and Samoa are a real banana skin these days. Pick up a few injuries and we're looking shaky

I cant wait though, if things click (and that backline mostly has a lot of experience playing together at this stage) it could be glorious

bilston · 19-06-2013 12:28PM

Tox56 wrote: »

We could just as easily go 0 from 3 as we could go 3 from 3. The way Schmidt gets his teams playing doesn't lend itself to instant success, and Samoa are a real banana skin these days. Pick up a few injuries and we're looking shaky

I cant wait though, if things click (and that backline mostly has a lot of experience playing together at this stage) it could be glorious

I think your last sentence is spot on, that backline could be superb to watch, it's just a shame BOD wasn't a bit younger. But whether we go 0 from 3 (which I don't think we will) or 3 from 3, I think watching that lot play under JS will become enjoyable again.

Lelantos · 19-06-2013 12:32PM

Perhaps its time to phase BOD out & move Bowe to the centre. He's not needed on the wing as its one place where we have some strength.

bilston · 19-06-2013 12:39PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Perhaps its time to phase BOD out & move Bowe to the centre. He's not needed on the wing as its one place where we have some strength.

We'd need Ulster to play him there first. It's possible but we have so many backline options at Ulster it's not even guarenteed that it would be Bowe who would replace Cave if he was to be replaced. I think Ulster would be reluctant to drop Cave anyway. Sadly I've come to the conclusion he's a little short of test level now but he is still important to Ulster.

Anyway I think while BOD is available and fit and in decent form you pick him.

19-06-2013 12:39PM

bilston wrote: »

I think your last sentence is spot on, that backline could be superb to watch, it's just a shame BOD wasn't a bit younger. But whether we go 0 from 3 (which I don't think we will) or 3 from 3, I think watching that lot play under JS will become enjoyable again.

I hope it doesn't take too much time, and I don't think it will. But Schmidt took a fair while to get Leinster playing ball.

Luckily the basics are there with the Leinster players already, and I think that Ulster have been playing a similar game (albeit with a stronger set piece).

Some of the integral cogs of the Ireland machine from outside of those two teams will need to 'catch up' quick for us to see a drastic improvement for these AI's. That being said, I think that they should be well able for it (Zebo, POC, Murray).

Tox56 · 19-06-2013 12:39PM

bilston wrote: »

I think your last sentence is spot on, that backline could be superb to watch, it's just a shame BOD wasn't a bit younger. But whether we go 0 from 3 (which I don't think we will) or 3 from 3, I think watching that lot play under JS will become enjoyable again.

To be honest rather than BOD being younger I'd be wishing Schmidt had come earlier. You look at RWC 2011 and we had pretty much everyone fit and available and playing well, the team that started v Aus:

Healy
Best
Ross
DOC
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Earls
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Leinster were coming off winning the H Cup, Munster coming off winning the ML, all 3 Ulstermen in the team had genuine claims to being world class at the time and only Ross and Reddan of that starting 15 haven't toured with the Lions. We beat Australia so it wasn't all bad but it feels like a wasted opportunity, I would have killed to see Schmidt working with that team.

Hagz · 19-06-2013 12:42PM

AngeGal wrote: »

That's incorrect aswell, there is naturally senior players at Connacht, Muldoon, Duffy, Swift, etc. They obviously haven't won what senior players at Leinster and Munster have but I would expect that they are as respected within the walls of the dressing room as senior players at other clubs. The documentary itself featured a clip of a pre-game talk from Johnny O'Connor.

Though I agree a lot of your post, I still stand by my original point. Agree to disagree I guess.

bilston · 19-06-2013 12:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope it doesn't take too much time, and I don't think it will. But Schmidt took a fair while to get Leinster playing ball.

Luckily the basics are there with the Leinster players already, and I think that Ulster have been playing a similar game (albeit with a stronger set piece).

Some of the integral cogs of the Ireland machine from outside of those two teams will need to 'catch up' quick for us to see a drastic improvement for these AI's. That being said, I think that they should be well able for it (Zebo, POC, Murray).

I noticed a few phases of play in the Canada match that already looked a bit different to the Kidney regime. But yes Leinster lost a few of their opening games and of course Schmidt won't have as much time with the players. However I do think the young Ulster backs will fit into the Leinster/Schmidt gameplan easily enough as will the likes of Zebo and Bowe.

dtpc191991 · 19-06-2013 12:58PM

bilston wrote: »

I noticed a few phases of play in the Canada match that already looked a bit different to the Kidney regime. But yes Leinster lost a few of their opening games and of course Schmidt won't have as much time with the players. However I do think the young Ulster backs will fit into the Leinster/Schmidt gameplan easily enough as will the likes of Zebo and Bowe.

Zebo certainly will he likes to roam and weve seen him do it for the lions. Schmidt likes his wingers to roam.

ambid · 19-06-2013 02:08PM

Lelantos wrote: »

Perhaps its time to phase BOD out & move Bowe to the centre. He's not needed on the wing as its one place where we have some strength.

O'Driscoll is still our best player and is still one of the very best backs available to the Lions. I think we need to play our best player in important games.

I don't really understand the point about moving Bowe to centre. He's 29 now so I can't really imagine him starting a career in a new position. He's never convinced that he would be better in the centre than on the wing. He's one of our best finishers so we need him where he will get most scoring opportunities.

In big games we should play our best players in their best positions.

who_me · 19-06-2013 02:38PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

For TOL and LI sake I hope he is better than the third choice Munster scrum half.

<precious Munster fan alert> I don't know. Munster seem to have a conveyer belt of scrum half talent - look at the current and previous home-grown 9s, and the clubs they've gone on to play for (Leinster, Leicester, Wasps, Perpignan, Bath, London Irish..). Quite often, the 3rd choice 9 at Munster would be a pretty solid player. Not so at the moment.. and it certainly hasn't really been the case in other positions in the backs. How often have Munster-originated outside backs been signed by other clubs?

p.s. Williams is probably our 2nd choice, whether deserved or not.

Teferi · 19-06-2013 02:51PM

I don't know why you would force Bowe to centre when we have what looks like a bit of talent coming up there but I have a feeling BOD will be used sparingly this coming season anyway.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Comments