Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

totallegend · 17-06-2013 09:14PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I'm hoping Foley is not retained by Ireland, Munsters form suffered last year during Ireland camps, and only after the 6 nations did our defense look solid, surely not coincidence.

Is Foley not the forwards coach?

jm08 · 17-06-2013 09:14PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

Would it not be more of a case that Foley was originally signed up as Ireland Defence Coach and Schmidt likes to run that area himself. For the forwards Foley is very much only still learning the ropes at this stage so Schmidt would be looking for someone more experienced.

I'm guessing of course as I have no sources.

Isn't Les Kiss reverting back to being Defensive Coach, so Foley isn't needed. I'd imagine the Forwards Coach would be a fulltime job.

Niallof9 - for all of the confusion with Foley 'mutterings & passion', the one area that Ireland have been decent in is the defence so he must have got his message across.

I'd imagine your sources might have got confused with whoever they were talking about - English isn't Gert Small's first language and he would be considered to be old school. Foley would have played with a fair few of the senior players so they could have interpreted for those who couldn't.

CatFromHue · 17-06-2013 09:26PM

jm08 wrote: »

Isn't Les Kiss reverting back to being Defensive Coach, so Foley isn't needed. I'd imagine the Forwards Coach would be a fulltime job.

Niallof9 - for all of the confusion with Foley 'mutterings & passion', the one area that Ireland have been decent in is the defence so he must have got his message across.

I'd imagine your sources might have got confused with whoever they were talking about - English isn't Gert Small's first language and he would be considered to be old school. Foley would have played with a fair few of the senior players so they could have interpreted for those who couldn't.

I dunno, could well be. I do remember Schmidt saying he was looking for a smaller Irish management team as well.

irishbucsfan · 17-06-2013 09:33PM

Yeah Kiss is taking over the defense. I think it's the first team in a while where Schmidt isn't running the defense so that's interesting.

He spoke about having a smaller coaching team.

So what's really interesting is that if you were looking for a small coaching team, surely you wouldn't hire someone to do a job you've done comfortably in the past? I think that really goes some way to back up reports of how much the players respect Kiss and how highly rated he is.

As for Foley, when he is left to run Munster's defense he has done a very good job, so I can't really say I believe he isn't rated. But it might be an issue that he has played with quite a few of the current squad?

Chabals Beard · 17-06-2013 09:39PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah Kiss is taking over the defense. I think it's the first team in a while where Schmidt isn't running the defense so that's interesting.

He spoke about having a smaller coaching team.

So what's really interesting is that if you were looking for a small coaching team, surely you wouldn't hire someone to do a job you've done comfortably in the past? I think that really goes some way to back up reports of how much the players respect Kiss and how highly rated he is.

As for Foley, when he is left to run Munster's defense he has done a very good job, so I can't really say I believe he isn't rated. But it might be an issue that he has played with quite a few of the current squad?

Foley has played with BOD, Darcy, Ryan, Best.. that's all that comes to mind (correct me if I am wrong ) .. I wouldn't see how that is a issue anyway.

danthefan · 17-06-2013 09:45PM

Foley is a couple of years removed so I doubt the fact he's played with some of the players would make a difference. There's just obviously no role for him in the Irish set-up anymore with Kiss staying on in defence.

Swan Curry · 17-06-2013 09:55PM

When Best or Strauss are throwing well or when the scrum is steady,Ireland are quite strong in the set piece.We've all seen the things of beauty that Schmidt can come up with off the back of a lineout,maybe he wants to divert more of his own attention to attack?

jm08 · 17-06-2013 10:12PM

Ronan O'Gara's take on the national coaching team.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ronan-ogara-for-schmidt-far-away-hills-arent-always-green-234143.html

totallegend · 17-06-2013 10:16PM

danthefan wrote: »

Foley is a couple of years removed so I doubt the fact he's played with some of the players would make a difference. There's just obviously no role for him in the Irish set-up anymore with Kiss staying on in defence.

It's not that there's a lack of a position for him, we're going to need a forwards coach, but Foley was only ever there as a stop-gap to begin with. He needs to go back to club level, get more experience and prove himself up to the job.

petebricquette · 17-06-2013 10:20PM

jm08 wrote: »

Ronan O'Gara's take on the national coaching team.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ronan-ogara-for-schmidt-far-away-hills-arent-always-green-234143.html

ROG is pretty keen to have Foley as forwards' coach then. He mentioned that Schmidt wants to 'scour the world' for options there rather than rely on home-grown talent. Maybe it's just that Schmidt and Foley don't get on? Or, like another poster said, Schmidt wants someone who hardly knows the players rather than someone who's played with a couple of them.

phog · 17-06-2013 10:26PM

petebricquette wrote: »

ROG is pretty keen to have Foley as forwards' coach then. He mentioned that Schmidt wants to 'scour the world' for options there rather than rely on home-grown talent. Maybe it's just that Schmidt and Foley don't get on? Or, like another poster said, Schmidt wants someone who hardly knows the players rather than someone who's played with a couple of them.

I think ROG is blinkered by his friendship, he obviously knows Foley and has huge respect for him and knows that Foley has a great rugby brain but I think he my need a bit more time coaching at club or provincial level before taking a fultime role in the national squad.

sydthebeat · 17-06-2013 10:41PM

phog wrote: »

I think ROG is blinkered by his friendship, he obviously knows Foley and has huge respect for him and knows that Foley has a great rugby brain but I think he my need a bit more time coaching at club or provincial level before taking a fultime role in the national squad.

Agreed, as far as coaching goes, axel is barely out of his baby teeth. Personally I think he needs to move away from munster for a few seasons to expand his knowledge.

CatFromHue · 17-06-2013 10:45PM

jm08 wrote: »

Ronan O'Gara's take on the national coaching team.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ronan-ogara-for-schmidt-far-away-hills-arent-always-green-234143.html

Oh ROG :pac::pac:

"Health permitting, I still think he(Gert Smal) will be eyeing a head coach down the road"

Niallof9 · 17-06-2013 11:04PM

jm08 wrote: »

Isn't Les Kiss reverting back to being Defensive Coach, so Foley isn't needed. I'd imagine the Forwards Coach would be a fulltime job.

Niallof9 - for all of the confusion with Foley 'mutterings & passion', the one area that Ireland have been decent in is the defence so he must have got his message across.

I'd imagine your sources might have got confused with whoever they were talking about - English isn't Gert Small's first language and he would be considered to be old school. Foley would have played with a fair few of the senior players so they could have interpreted for those who couldn't.

No it was a sense of Foley's technical coaching. im only going by what i was told and i can hardly say who told me this. im not doubting his passion, but coaching is a lot more than passion.

I was informed Foley's coaching was based around heart and passion etc etc and for modern players this is not enough. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. Just that is a million miles away from Joe and how Leinster set-up hence some of the Leinster players were a bit put off.

I never bought the line that Foley was this super intelligent player, it was just one of Thornley's lines. He has a long way to go to prove himself as a coach.

jm08 · 17-06-2013 11:15PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

No it was a sense of Foley's technical coaching. im only going by what i was told and i can hardly say who told me this. im not doubting his passion, but coaching is a lot more than passion.

I was informed Foley's coaching was based around heart and passion etc etc and for modern players this is not enough. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. Just that is a million miles away from Joe and how Leinster set-up.

I never bought the line that Foley was this super intelligent player, it was just one of Thornley's lines. He has a long way to go to prove himself as a coach.

It wasn't Thornley's line. It was Keith Wood who said he had a great rugby brain. Said something like he was the most intelligent rugby player he has ever played with. The deliberations by the experts who put him in the Dream Team of the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup made similar comments.

I also recall hearing that when Foley filled in for Gert Smal when he had his eye problem, that the reason he was invited back as Defence Coach was because the players were so impressed with him. Thornley had some comments from Leinster players where they were very surprised as to what a good coach he is.

Mahatma Geansai · 17-06-2013 11:16PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

No it was a sense of Foley's technical coaching. im only going by what i was told and i can hardly say who told me this. im not doubting his passion, but coaching is a lot more than passion.

I was informed Foley's coaching was based around heart and passion etc etc and for modern players this is not enough. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. Just that is a million miles away from Joe and how Leinster set-up hence some of the Leinster players were a bit put off.

I never bought the line that Foley was this super intelligent player, it was just one of Thornley's lines. He has a long way to go to prove himself as a coach.

I guess the 39 year old Anthony Foley is a dinosaur of a game long past. Much too old to be relevant nowadays. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't really see much more that Foley can do to prove himself as a coach other than being given a chance at a higher level. He has already shown himself to be a talented coach up to international level.

Dig up lad.

Mahatma Geansai · 17-06-2013 11:18PM

jm08 wrote: »

It wasn't Thornley's line. It was Keith Wood who said he had a great rugby brain. Said something like he was the most intelligent rugby player he has ever played with. The deliberations by the experts who put him in the Dream Team of the first 15 years of the Heineken Cup made similar comments.

I also recall hearing that when Foley filled in for Gert Smal when he had his eye problem, that the reason he was invited back as Defence Coach was because the players were so impressed with him. Thornley had some comments from Leinster players where they were very surprised as to what a good coach he is.

Is that the same Keith Wood who won the first ever IRB World Player of the Year award? Sure he'd hardly know anything about rugby...

jm08 · 17-06-2013 11:21PM

phog wrote: »

I think ROG is blinkered by his friendship, he obviously knows Foley and has huge respect for him and knows that Foley has a great rugby brain but I think he my need a bit more time coaching at club or provincial level before taking a fultime role in the national squad.

Actually I read his comments as suiting himself better if Foley moved onto Ireland (less competition at Munster in a few years time when he wants to come back).

Benny Cake · 17-06-2013 11:24PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

yeah think what you like Benny Cakes. Munster ranting (im a munster fan) was my add but the source comes from direct in camp and Foley would be seen as a bit old school, hence why Joe Schmidt is not keeping him on as their style clashes. To be honest i couldnt give two ****s whether you believe me or not, my conscience is clean.

In fairness Niall you would be amazed at the number of posters that come on here claiming to have "sources" inside one camp or another. There are two issues with this:

1. I'm fairly confident that 99% of the time its bullsh1t. Maybe you're the 1%...

2. If you are fortunate enough to be mates with someone involved in the Irish/Munster/Leinster camp, spreading what they've told you in confidence, over the internet is hardly likely to endear you to them (or us for that matter)

CatFromHue · 17-06-2013 11:33PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Is that the same Keith Wood who won the first ever IRB World Player of the Year award? Sure he'd hardly know anything about rugby...

In fairness Wood and Foley were childhood, or teenager at least, friends and have been ever since.

Hagz · 17-06-2013 11:35PM

All of this talk of Anthony Foley "allegedly" talking of passion etc, reminds me of the recent Connacht documentary where it shows a glimpse of Eric Elwood talking to the players in the changing room at half-time. He had a whiteboard full of buzzwords if I remember correctly, saying things like focus and pride or something along those lines. I remember being quite surprised at the simplicity of it all.

Swan Curry · 17-06-2013 11:42PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Is that the same Keith Wood who won the first ever IRB World Player of the Year award? Sure he'd hardly know anything about rugby...

Good rugby players don't necessarily make good analysts.Wood also thought BOD should be moved to 12 to accomodate Earls at 13.

jm08 · 17-06-2013 11:42PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness Wood and Foley were childhood, or teenager at least, friends and have been ever since.

I can't see Wood suffering fools gladly. Wood would have played with a lot of great players so it really is some compliment.

I can't see Munster tolerating him if he wasn't up to scratch either - just think of all the really highly thought of Munster players who have gone onto coach and he is the only one that a lot of time and effort is being put into developing him as a coach. I don't think Paul O'Connell would tolerate a coach who wasns't up to scratch either. Considering that Munster don't have a lot of cash and Penney is a forwards coach, its surprising Munster are holding onto him (while not renewing McCarthy's contract for instance, or finding some sort of a job for Doug Howlett).

Lyaiera · 17-06-2013 11:43PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

No it was a sense of Foley's technical coaching. im only going by what i was told and i can hardly say who told me this. im not doubting his passion, but coaching is a lot more than passion.

I was informed Foley's coaching was based around heart and passion etc etc and for modern players this is not enough. It doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. Just that is a million miles away from Joe and how Leinster set-up hence some of the Leinster players were a bit put off.

I've heard completely differently.

jm08 · 17-06-2013 11:49PM

Swan Curry wrote: »

Good rugby players don't necessarily make good analysts.Wood also thought BOD should be moved to 12 to accomodate Earls at 13.

So? I think BOD is saying in his blog today that it isn't a big deal whether he plays 12 or 13 (that he mixes and matches anyway).

irishbucsfan · 17-06-2013 11:50PM

jm08 wrote: »

So? I think BOD is saying in his blog today that it isn't a big deal whether he plays 12 or 13 (that he mixes and matches anyway).

Yeah I wanted to see more of that partnership. Too late now I guess.

who_me · 17-06-2013 11:53PM

Hagz wrote: »

All of this talk of Anthony Foley "allegedly" talking of passion etc, reminds me of the recent Connacht documentary where it shows a glimpse of Eric Elwood talking to the players in the changing room at half-time. He had a whiteboard full of buzzwords if I remember correctly, saying things like focus and pride or something along those lines. I remember being quite surprised at the simplicity of it all.

Well, you could argue it's a bit late at that stage to be drilling a gameplan, or tackling technique, or kicking style into the team. It's not something you're going to pick up in a few minutes. At that stage all you can do (apart from highlighting any very obvious problems) - is build them up and keep them focused.

Hagz · 18-06-2013 12:04AM

who_me wrote: »

Well, you could argue it's a bit late at that stage to be drilling a gameplan, or tackling technique, or kicking style into the team. It's not something you're going to pick up in a few minutes. At that stage all you can do (apart from highlighting any very obvious problems) - is build them up and keep them focused.

Well, I think in this day in age, coaches would have specific possible weaknesses that they've highlighted in the opposition's defence/set-piece, that they would be looking to relay to their players along with plans on how to exploit said weaknesses. Along with various other things such as a change in game-plan, defence, kicking etc. I wish there was a clip up on the internet of the scene I'm referring to, because it certainly didn't paint Elwood in a favourable light with regard to the technical aspect of his management in my opinion.

phog · 18-06-2013 12:31AM

Hagz wrote: »

Well, I think in this day in age, coaches would have specific possible weaknesses that they've highlighted in the opposition's defence/set-piece, that they would be looking to relay to their players along with plans on how to exploit said weaknesses. Along with various other things such as a change in game-plan, defence, kicking etc. I wish there was a clip up on the internet of the scene I'm referring to, because it certainly didn't paint Elwood in a favourable light with regard to the technical aspect of his management in my opinion.

To be fair to Elwood, the scene was probably a few edited minutes from hours on end of recordings to suit TV and an audience. The fire and passion was probably better suited than a guy talking tactics.

Hagz · 18-06-2013 12:38AM

phog wrote: »

To be fair to Elwood, the scene was probably a few edited minutes from hours on end of recordings to suit TV and an audience. The fire and passion was probably better suited than a guy talking tactics.

True, I hadn't thought about that. Another thing I hadn't thought about until just now is that in bigger clubs such as Leicester and Munster, the coaches have less of a responsibility to motivate the players as they can just step back and let the senior heads do the talking, leaving them with more time to focus on the technical side of things. Whereas perhaps Elwood had to focus more of his attention towards keeping the inexperienced guys focused.

I would still love to get an insight into the goings on at half-time. For instance I'd be surprised if clubs like Leinster and Leicester didn't go into extreme detail with regards to tactics at half-time.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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