Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

Buer · 15-06-2013 09:52PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Thinking about it, I wonder if we've seen more or less the last of D'Arcy in green.

I would say through injuries etc. we might see him get one or two more caps but I would say that, generally, his international career is done. Shame. He never really managed to deliver fully on his early promise in the international scene. He was absolutely scintillating when he first burst through after being converted to a centre.

Then came the latter half of the 2004/05 season where he bulked up and put on significant weight for the Lions and lost his cutting edge. That tour was a disaster from his perspective culminating in Woodward absolutely shafting him and telling the media he refused to play in the final test (such a conversation never happened). He was a bit of a crash ball player after that despite never having the bulk for it but had remarkable power in his legs. Never really did look like the best 12 in the world which is what many were saying previously though.

totallegend · 15-06-2013 09:58PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Thinking about it, I wonder if we've seen more or less the last of D'Arcy in green.

D'Arcy is younger than O'Driscoll, O'Connell, Ross and O'Callaghan and has been in very good form, so there's no absolute reason why he should be dropped. It all depends on the quality of the replacements but at the moment he's still the best.

We should keep in mind that, prior to his injury, Paddy Wallace was still first choice 12 at Ulster so who knows who'll be wearing the Ulster jersey next season, let alone the Irish.

danthefan · 15-06-2013 09:59PM

Schmidt likes D'Arcy, he's been ever present for Leinster over the last 3 seasons. No way he'll just be cut loose I reckon, especially as he was playing so well. Just go back to the Wales game and look how badly we missed him when he went off.

Having said that Marshall impressed when given his chance so it's great to have options.

15-06-2013 10:01PM

D'Arcy will see time in green still, no doubt about it. Schmidt has the unenviable task of replacing the longest standing centre partnership in International Rugby.

He's not going to just swap them both out. We'll hopefully see Griffin, Cave, Earls and/or O'Malley getting some time alongside D'Arcy in green.

Likewise we'll see Marshall, Olding and/or McSharry lining up with BOD outside them.

Fireball07 · 15-06-2013 10:02PM

Buer wrote: »

I would say through injuries etc. we might see him get one or two more caps but I would say that, generally, his international career is done. Shame. He never really managed to deliver fully on his early promise in the international scene. He was absolutely scintillating when he first burst through after being converted to a centre.

Then came the latter half of the 2004/05 season where he bulked up and put on significant weight for the Lions and lost his cutting edge. That tour was a disaster from his perspective culminating in Woodward absolutely shafting him and telling the media he refused to play in the final test (such a conversation never happened). He was a bit of a crash ball player after that despite never having the bulk for it but had remarkable power in his legs. Never really did look like the best 12 in the world which is what many were saying previously though.

His 2004 form was unbelievable, it was just linebreak after linebreak, probably even outshone BOD.

(A lot of those years blur into one for me, was he not great in 2006 too?)

irishbucsfan · 15-06-2013 10:07PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

His 2004 form was unbelievable, it was just linebreak after linebreak, probably even outshone BOD.

(A lot of those years blur into one for me, was he not great in 2006 too?)

I think he was player of the tournament in that 6 nations

Buer · 15-06-2013 10:08PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

His 2004 form was unbelievable, it was just linebreak after linebreak, probably even outshone BOD.

(A lot of those years blur into one for me, was he not great in 2006 too?)

Ah yeah, he certainly was still excellent at other points including 2006 up until the WC but he was simply sensational in 2004. He was nominated for IRB World Player of the Year and was just lethal with ball in hand. By 2006/07 his game had changed to a more power based game and he was used as a foil for those around him and began the change to a work horse.

Tox56 · 15-06-2013 10:13PM

He'll never be as highy regarded as he should be because of BOD, unfortunately. Absolutely superb player at his best, countless times over the years I've mistaken him for BOD when he makes one of those breaks, even during those periods where BOD was untouchable.

When looking up the D'Arcy/Woodward thing again (what was the story there, surely Woodward wasn't outright lying?

) he was described in a UK paper as "Ireland's other centre", which pretty much sums it up. He was always in BOD's shadow

Buer · 15-06-2013 10:21PM

Tox56 wrote: »

When looking up the D'Arcy/Woodward thing again (what was the story there, surely Woodward wasn't outright lying? )

Actually, that's pretty much what happened although there's an air of mystery around it. When the 3rd test came around in 2005, Woodward said he D'Arcy had ruled himself out due to fatigue. We didn't hear D'Arcy's side until he was called up in 2009 and he was asked about pulling out of the final test.

I can't tell you what went through his head or why he said it. I didn't pull out from any game," D'Arcy insisted.

"I was very disappointed with how that came across in the media; I nearly fell over when I heard.

Woodward and D'Arcy never spoke after that. D'Arcy also refused point blank to take supplements that Woodward's team provided to him which probably didn't go down well with him either.

thomond2006 · 15-06-2013 10:29PM

Buer wrote: »

Woodward and D'Arcy never spoke after that. D'Arcy also refused point blank to take supplements that Woodward's team provided to him which probably didn't go down well with him either.

I think those supplements might have been the ones that ROG talked about in his autobiography.

Tox56 · 15-06-2013 10:34PM

Buer wrote: »

Actually, that's pretty much what happened although there's an air of mystery around it. When the 3rd test came around in 2005, Woodward said he D'Arcy had ruled himself out due to fatigue. We didn't hear D'Arcy's side until he was called up in 2009 and he was asked about pulling out of the final test.

Woodward and D'Arcy never spoke after that. D'Arcy also refused point blank to take supplements that Woodward's team provided to him which probably didn't go down well with him either.

Yeah but it does sound a bit dodgy. He said this in one interview I can find:

‘I cannot tell you what went through his head or why he said it,’ insisted D’Arcy. ‘I know the truth. I have never in my life pulled out of any game of rugby. All I can say is that I was very disappointed how it came across to the public.
‘I’m not going to go into too much detail. It was two people having a conversation and I don’t want to start rehashing something from the 2005 Lions when my sole concern is with the 2009 Lions

First of all why wait until 2009 to speak out about it, surely he was asked about it before then, and even if he wasn't I know I would be desperate to set the record straight.

More interesting though is the fact he says doesn't want to go into detail, and his admission that there was a conversation between them. He does deny he pulled out of the game sure, but it sounds like there's more to it.

Buer · 15-06-2013 10:39PM

Tox56 wrote: »

First of all why wait until 2009 to speak out about it, surely he was asked about it before then, and even if he wasn't I know I would be desperate to set the record straight.

When he was called up in 2009, Fran Cotton spoke out and said no player who refused a test opportunity should be called up and said D'Arcy wasn't the sort of guy that he'd want in his Lions squad. It was put to D'Arcy then when he was interviewed on his call up.

In fairness, D'Arcy has never courted publicity and keeps his head down so I would understand him not commenting on it before that.

Podge_irl · 15-06-2013 10:46PM

To be honest, even where the story true I don't agree with Cotton. If you feel like you aren't physically or mentally able to play to your best yet say nothing its just selfish. Its a big part of the problem with concussions in the NFL at the moment - players don't want to be seen as weak for not playing "just" because of a concussion.

ScissorPaperRock · 16-06-2013 01:04AM

D'Arcy has certainly been in good form of late, when not injured. While he's probably a more solid player all round compared to his alternatives, particularly in defence, I like the breaking threat that Marshall and Olding offer. We should certainly be looking to give them time in green with an eye on the World Cup, but it'll be interesting to see how that's balanced.

schools rugby · 16-06-2013 01:06AM

Id like to see Marshall more and then McSharry as they are different players, with the view of Marshall playing 12 in the world cup ?

ScissorPaperRock · 16-06-2013 02:44PM

It's a bit disappointing that only six new caps (and one of them a 32 year old) were given in this summer tour, and some of those with very little game time. Seems like a bit of a missed opportunity. With Samoa, Australia and NZ looming large in the Autumn, there won't be another opportunity for experimentation like that for a while.

OldRio · 16-06-2013 02:54PM

Agreed. Contrast this with the England side that played against Argentine last night. BOD has more caps than the entire England team.

padser · 16-06-2013 03:12PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Maybe. But we can always dream! I think it was said that Sexton had negotiated release clauses for the international windows. .

You don't need to add it into a contract that you will be releasd for international windows.

So I'm hopeful the references to negotiations by sexton for training camp release refer to times over and above the international windows. I have not seem it clarified though.

Niallof9 · 16-06-2013 06:18PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

It's a bit disappointing that only six new caps (and one of them a 32 year old) were given in this summer tour, and some of those with very little game time. Seems like a bit of a missed opportunity. With Samoa, Australia and NZ looming large in the Autumn, there won't be another opportunity for experimentation like that for a while.

yeah total waste for Marmion, Sherry and one or two others might as well not have toured. Suspect it was Coach Kiss's imprint. Thankfully he is reverting to the role that suits him best. And the others have gone. Have heard from a good source the players were a bit bewildered at some of Foley's nontechnical mutterings/passionate munster rants.

Let the Schmidt era begin.

Mahatma Geansai · 16-06-2013 06:30PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

yeah total waste for Marmion, Sherry and one or two others might as well not have toured. Suspect it was Coach Kiss's imprint. Thankfully he is reverting to the role that suits him best. And the others have gone. Have heard from a good source the players were a bit bewildered at some of Foley's nontechnical mutterings/passionate munster rants.

Let the Schmidt era begin.

I have it from a better source that you're making things up as you go along.

Benny Cake · 16-06-2013 06:38PM

Niallof9 wrote: »

yeah total waste for Marmion, Sherry and one or two others might as well not have toured. Suspect it was Coach Kiss's imprint. Thankfully he is reverting to the role that suits him best. And the others have gone. Have heard from a good source the players were a bit bewildered at some of Foley's nontechnical mutterings/passionate munster rants.

Let the Schmidt era begin.

I googled: "Talking through your hole", and it led me right here....

CatFromHue · 16-06-2013 06:39PM

I have no sources

trouttrout · 16-06-2013 06:42PM

Don't worry lads, AWJ told me it's true

totallegend · 16-06-2013 08:37PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

It's a bit disappointing that only six new caps (and one of them a 32 year old) were given in this summer tour, and some of those with very little game time. Seems like a bit of a missed opportunity. With Samoa, Australia and NZ looming large in the Autumn, there won't be another opportunity for experimentation like that for a while.

But guys like Jones, Cave, Madigan, Strauss, Kilcoyne, Tuohy and Toner did get game time. None of them were new caps but didn't have 20 caps between them going out so that has to be worth something.

The last trip to North America gave out caps like confetti and what did we gain from that?

ScissorPaperRock · 16-06-2013 10:22PM

totallegend wrote: »

But guys like Jones, Cave, Madigan, Strauss, Kilcoyne, Tuohy and Toner did get game time. None of them were new caps but didn't have 20 caps between them going out so that has to be worth something.

The last trip to North America gave out caps like confetti and what did we gain from that?

True, it's good that some of the fringe players were given some game time. I guess my issue isn't really with the lack of new caps, but more with the minimal game time give to some of the more promising youth. Olding, in particular, comes to mind as someone who should have been involved last night.

Hagz · 16-06-2013 10:38PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Olding, in particular, comes to mind as someone who should have been involved last night.

Injured I believe.

schools rugby · 17-06-2013 05:54PM

Gonna go out on a limb here and say id love to see Tommy Bowe at 13 for a few of the Autumn Internationals - Great in defense , good hands and quick. Wouldnt mind seeing him there for 2015 World Cup if BOD isnt around

Niallof9 · 17-06-2013 07:25PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

I googled: "Talking through your hole", and it led me right here....

yeah think what you like Benny Cakes. Munster ranting (im a munster fan) was my add but the source comes from direct in camp and Foley would be seen as a bit old school, hence why Joe Schmidt is not keeping him on as their style clashes. To be honest i couldnt give two ****s whether you believe me or not, my conscience is clean.

CatFromHue · 17-06-2013 08:17PM

Would it not be more of a case that Foley was originally signed up as Ireland Defence Coach and Schmidt likes to run that area himself. For the forwards Foley is very much only still learning the ropes at this stage so Schmidt would be looking for someone more experienced.

I'm guessing of course as I have no sources.

Lelantos · 17-06-2013 08:40PM

I'm hoping Foley is not retained by Ireland, Munsters form suffered last year during Ireland camps, and only after the 6 nations did our defense look solid, surely not coincidence.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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