The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Tom Joad · 13-06-2013 01:24PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Talking to a few Fermanagh folk today and they reckon the game going ahead is madness. Apparently Enniskillen is basically going to be a closed town at the weekend. All the shops are closing etc.

There's talk of about 15,000 protestors turning up as around that number generally turns up but the locals are expecting around 4,000 to 5,000 as Enniskillen isn't near the size of the cities the G8 would normally occur in.

To have the game going ahead there in that sort of environment is madness. Anyway, let the Ulster council press ahead.

Have to say I'm disappointed about the juniors. I didn't expect them to perform as well this year as they've lost players like Martin Reilly, Martin Dunne, Joshua Hayes, Declan McKiernan and Killian Brady but I was still hopeful they'd make the final.

It's a great competition and I can't understand why Ulster don't start a junior championship. It's certainly helped younger Cavan players make the transition from U21 to senior.

would agree with everything you said there Lemlin.

correct me if I am wrong but I thought there was talk of Leinster also scrapping the junior championship recently!

cavan4sam · 13-06-2013 10:09PM

looking forward to the game on sunday nervously optimistic of cavans chances

we really need a big game from givney in midfield

i wont make due to work commitments but will be watching closely

Best of luck to all involved , Lets hope we get a rattle at the noisy neighbours its been a while!!!!!

Lemlin · 14-06-2013 03:09PM

The closer this game gets, the more worried I'm getting to be honest. Fermanagh have named a very strong team with Barry Owens full back. I'd expect him to pick up Keating. As much as I admire Terry Hyland, Canavan is a better tactician and Fermanagh have a more experienced team and are at home. I didn't hear it myself but Kevin McStay tipped Fermanagh this morning on RTE and I'd have to agree with him.

This will be a totally different game to the Armagh one. Having spoken to people I know who attended the junior game on Wednesday evening, they were very worried about the lack of a plan B for Cavan. The blanket defence and breaking from our own backline wasn't working but the sideline seemed reluctant to change it. This is a criticism that was often levelled at Val and Terry in the past - that our system works well at times but, when it doesn't, we're too slow to make changes and have no alternative.

For me, ever since our first McKenna Cup game this year, we've been too slow to turn defence into attack. We have a blanket defence but the players don't get forward quickly enough. Fermanagh are going to drop bodies back and, when the two teams played a similar system in the league match, they were the better team at securing scores. I'm just hoping the key difference is that we were a man down in that match due to the sending off and won't be this time round (fingers crossed everyone keeps their heads - on our side of it anyway!).

celt262 · 14-06-2013 03:23PM

Lemlin wrote: »

The closer this game gets, the more worried I'm getting to be honest. Fermanagh have named a very strong team with Barry Owens full back. I'd expect him to pick up Keating. As much as I admire Terry Hyland, Canavan is a better tactician and Fermanagh have a more experienced team and are at home.

Keating will get the better of Owens.

On what basic do you think Canavan is a better tactician ?

Tom Joad · 14-06-2013 03:27PM

I can understand where you are coming from Lemlin but this was never going to be anything other than a tight game between two evenly matched teams - yes Fermanagh have named a strong team but Owens has lost a lot of pace and would still fancy Keating to give him a tough time. Quigley at 14 will be a handful but the lads did handle Jamie Clarke well and will be well alerted to the size of the task against Quigley. McCluskey is the danger man for me as if he is given the time and space he cann run the game.

Of course it will be different to the Armagh game and will be a tight dour game.

One thing I would disagree with you on is this myth that Canavan is a better tactician - I've heard this been thrown out there this week but what's it based on - he took charge of a Division four team who won promotion but hardly beat the cream of the crop in Division four (and were never a division 4 team tbh). What did they do in the championship last year with Canavan in charge - well beaten by Down and blitzed by Cavan when they should have put us away.

Hyland has to be frank achieved a hell of a lot more as a manager but probably will never get that credit nationally because he's not a media darling. Seriously expected Matt Cooper to have an orgasm on air some night from chuckling along to Canavan's pearls and witty repartee:rolleyes:. - I should probably stop now

I agree that we can be slow to have a back-up plan but key for me on Sunday is Cavan keeping 15 on the field for as long as possible and showing discipline - it will be tight and not for the faint hearted but I believe we will put this off..

celt262 · 14-06-2013 03:30PM

Good to see you agree with me Tom.

Come on Cavan

Lemlin · 14-06-2013 04:49PM

celt262 wrote: »

Keating will get the better of Owens.

On what basic do you think Canavan is a better tactician ?

Basing it on the two games with both men as managers: last year's qualifiers and this year's league game.

Last year Fermanagh were on top for most of the game but for our ten minute blitz which, for me, was as much about them switching off as us pulling ourselves back into it. Alot of it was also down to an outstanding display by Gearoid McKiernan who grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck.

In the league game earlier this year, we struggled badly. I posted here at half time about how there wasn't a hope of us winning. Yes, we were without a man for most of the game but, again, Canavan got his tactics right when Reilly was obviously targeted. He also had plenty of homework done on the Cavan team - Mackey not being able to move 5 foot without being fouled, Dunne being double marked, Keating barely being let onto the pitch!

For me, Canavan was the better tactician on the night as he seemed to have alot more homework done and knew alot more about the Cavan team and what made us tick.

eamonpk · 14-06-2013 05:02PM

Tom Joad wrote: »

I can understand where you are coming from Lemlin but this was never going to be anything other than a tight game between two evenly matched teams - yes Fermanagh have named a strong team but Owens has lost a lot of pace and would still fancy Keating to give him a tough time. Quigley at 14 will be a handful but the lads did handle Jamie Clarke well and will be well alerted to the size of the task against Quigley. McCluskey is the danger man for me as if he is given the time and space he cann run the game.

Of course it will be different to the Armagh game and will be a tight dour game.

One thing I would disagree with you on is this myth that Canavan is a better tactician - I've heard this been thrown out there this week but what's it based on - he took charge of a Division four team who won promotion but hardly beat the cream of the crop in Division four (and were never a division 4 team tbh). What did they do in the championship last year with Canavan in charge - well beaten by Down and blitzed by Cavan when they should have put us away.

Hyland has to be frank achieved a hell of a lot more as a manager but probably will never get that credit nationally because he's not a media darling. Seriously expected Matt Cooper to have an orgasm on air some night from chuckling along to Canavan's pearls and witty repartee:rolleyes:. - I should probably stop now

I agree that we can be slow to have a back-up plan but key for me on Sunday is Cavan keeping 15 on the field for as long as possible and showing discipline - it will be tight and not for the faint hearted but I believe we will put this off..

I won't say that Canavan is a master tactician but it must be remembered that he got the Fermanagh job as the NFL was about to start so had very little time to put his stamp on it. Yes the Cavan match was disappointing to be cruising 5 points ahead and hit with 3 goals. But the Down match was over when Keenan got sent off before the first score - it was a bit unjust to be sent off for striking when the guy that hit him got nothing.

I think this season has shown more what Canavan can do - Meath were very lucky to beat them in the last game to deny promotion.

celt262 · 14-06-2013 05:05PM

In the game last year the Cavan lads had dropped the heads and were just going through the motions and showing no fight bar 10 minutes at the start until the first goal. Whether the reason for that is that their manager is tactically better is debatable. I though that the introduction of Declan Mckiernan to midfield and the moving of Niall McDermott out around the middle and his willingness to win breaking ball had a big effect in the comeback. I don't think that the tactical genius Canavan had an answer to those switces made by Hyland.

This year in the league obv been a man down led to it been easier for them to double mark and get players around our danger men. As for targeting O'Reilly i don't think he was delibertly targeted as that Shane McCabe would wind you up if you passed him on the street.

Tom Joad · 14-06-2013 07:29PM

eamonpk wrote: »

I won't say that Canavan is a master tactician but it must be remembered that he got the Fermanagh job as the NFL was about to start so had very little time to put his stamp on it. Yes the Cavan match was disappointing to be cruising 5 points ahead and hit with 3 goals. But the Down match was over when Keenan got sent off before the first score - it was a bit unjust to be sent off for striking when the guy that hit him got nothing.

I think this season has shown more what Canavan can do - Meath were very lucky to beat them in the last game to deny promotion.

They still got promoted in the league though so not sure what your point is

This is a game all about results and in 2012 in the Championship they played two and lost two and haven't played this yeah and yet the media darling Canavan gets lauded by the media as a great tactician.

Terry Hyland has brought underage success to Cavan from nothing. He got Cavan a victory over Fermanagh in the qualifiers and this season we have beaten Meath, Monaghan and Armagh.

Canavan may well turn out to be one of the great managers but so far has done absolutely nothing so to be putting him up as some kind of master tactician (the media not you obviously) is typical of some elements of the media - Today FM were at it again this evening all lauding Peter the Great manager. In the same piece our danger man is some lad called Keenan - can't wait to see him cause he must be a late transfer in.

Tom Joad · 14-06-2013 07:33PM

Lemlin wrote: »

Basing it on the two games with both men as managers: last year's qualifiers and this year's league game.

Last year Fermanagh were on top for most of the game but for our ten minute blitz which, for me, was as much about them switching off as us pulling ourselves back into it. Alot of it was also down to an outstanding display by Gearoid McKiernan who grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck.

In the league game earlier this year, we struggled badly. I posted here at half time about how there wasn't a hope of us winning. Yes, we were without a man for most of the game but, again, Canavan got his tactics right when Reilly was obviously targeted. He also had plenty of homework done on the Cavan team - Mackey not being able to move 5 foot without being fouled, Dunne being double marked, Keating barely being let onto the pitch!

For me, Canavan was the better tactician on the night as he seemed to have alot more homework done and knew alot more about the Cavan team and what made us tick.

Re last year Celt262 put it well.

The league this year - obviously we'll never know but Damien O'Reilly getting sent off changed the whole landscape of that game as Cavan played for 60 minutes with 14 men.

Mackey was injured going into the league game and visibly ran out of steam, they had a spare man to double up on Dunne and Keating had the jersey ripped off him in the first ten seconds off him being on the pitch - he did still cause them trouble.

No-one of the above was about better tactics in my view

Lemlin · 14-06-2013 09:24PM

I wasn't aware of any media lauding of Canavan tbh. I'm basing my assertion of his tactics on the League performance in March.

He had Cavan down to a tee. For example, Dunne had only played well in one league game against Antrim and the McKenna Cup game against Armagh yet Canavan knew he was the man to watch and had two men on him from the start.

We were struggling in the first half yet Terry didn't change anything. It was clear changes to tactics had to be made but he didn't seem to have a plan B.

Now I rate Terry highly and have always said that but Canavan outwitted him that evening.

eamonpk · 15-06-2013 10:58PM

Tom Joad wrote: »

They still got promoted in the league though so not sure what your point is

This is a game all about results and in 2012 in the Championship they played two and lost two and haven't played this yeah and yet the media darling Canavan gets lauded by the media as a great tactician.

Terry Hyland has brought underage success to Cavan from nothing. He got Cavan a victory over Fermanagh in the qualifiers and this season we have beaten Meath, Monaghan and Armagh.

Canavan may well turn out to be one of the great managers but so far has done absolutely nothing so to be putting him up as some kind of master tactician (the media not you obviously) is typical of some elements of the media - Today FM were at it again this evening all lauding Peter the Great manager. In the same piece our danger man is some lad called Keenan - can't wait to see him cause he must be a late transfer in.

They weren't promoted - they came 3rd

If you are referring to the promotion in NFL that finished 15 months ago and then to say its a results business and they achieved nothing in 2012 seem to contradict each other

- Anyway I don't think either will have much relevance on this summer for Fermanagh

The point I made that you didn't get - someone dismissed him as tactician/manager - There is no basis for that point. He hasn't proved himself as a great manager but he is doing OK so far.

Terry Hyland has proven himself at U21 defo - but similarly not enough evidence to prove how great he is or not at senior level.

Does anyone really believe the media who go over the top with many things in GAA - most of the journalism in GAA media is lazy and like easy sound bites - Peter the Great and all that stuff is ignored n
by anyone with half a brain.

celt262 · 16-06-2013 11:50AM

eamonpk wrote: »

The point I made that you didn't get - someone dismissed him as tactician/manager - There is no basis for that point. He hasn't proved himself as a great manager but he is doing OK so far.

I don't think anyone said that.

tayto lover · 16-06-2013 03:56PM

Well done Cavan and despite Spillane's spite I enjoyed the game.
Hope they hammer Monaghan.

Tom Joad · 16-06-2013 04:25PM

Fantastic result today - made hard work off it but the hunger and honesty in the Cavan defending was unbelievable - they really frustrated Fermanagh. Toasty, Mackey, and Dunnie in particular were magnificent - was impressive for the first time with Damien O'Reilly and he kept his discipline well today.

We will have to raise our game again if we are to get over Monaghan but once again this team have come out the right side off a tight result and you can see the belief that they have - could have panicked when Fermanagh got level but stuck with it.

One thing that shocked me today being one of the few times I have seen a Cavan game live on TV is how bad and 2nd rate RTE coverage is compared to the BBC. Spillane and O'Rourke are still trotting out the same crap about Ulster football and it's really tired at this stage. Compare that to the BBC who analysed the game and were actually informed and knew a bit about both teams. From what I could see Spillane and O'Rourke spent less than a minute analysing the game at half time but spent their time making sweeping generalising about the state of football - keep that for your well paid columns in the paper lads and actually analyse the game being played.

But good thing is that Cavan will again go under the radar and Monaghan will be hot favourites for Semis.

Fireball07 · 16-06-2013 04:47PM

I thought both your corner-backs were excellent, and Flanagan. The number 24 O'Reilly was very good aswell, as were Keating and McDermott.

Dunne was double-marked, didn't make a huge impact in the first half but grew into the game and his last score was spectacularly good, he's great off both feet.

Mackey was the standout though, outstanding player. All-round you seemed the better team though, should have won by more to be quite honest. Fermanagh were very close to pulling in front at one stage, and if they had, I think they'd have held on....but you just managed to halt the momentum in time.

MANUTD99 · 16-06-2013 04:52PM

Fair play to Cavan. Really should of made the game far easier than what it was at the end.

RTE anaylsts only seem interested in hyping up Dublin, Cork, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone. Any other game in the Championship is worthless ****e in their opinion

Enjoyable game as a neutral. ( Dublin fan btw)

Lemlin · 16-06-2013 06:04PM

Fantastic result today. Glad to say I was wrong about Canavan vs Hyland.

The RTE analysis was annoying. Part of the reason Fermanagh didn't score for 25 minutes was because Cavan were so good at the back yet that was largely ignored.

Dunne and Keating were super again. I know people will say Dunne didn't have a good first half but, if nothing else, he tied up two of their men. In the second half when they had to push on, he got the space he needed and took advantage.

We'll go into the game against Monaghan as underdogs and that'll suit us down to the ground. Really looking forward to it now.

12 years of not winning two games in Ulster is over now, we've nothing to lose against Monaghan and hopefully can push on.

dxhound2005 · 16-06-2013 06:36PM

Tom Joad wrote: »

I think farce is quite a mild word to describe this. I will be shot down for this but am going to nail my colours to the mast here.

1. Fermanagh are blameless in this matter - they were quite willing to change weekends and even were willing to concede home advantage on the game. This had been discussed prior to the Cavan Armagh game.

2. The Ulster Council have refused to be budged on this and they are notoriously stubborn on issues such as this. Flexibility is not part of their lexicon.

3. The game is in the six counties where you don't exactly have a police force sympathetic to the GAA which adds to the issue and to be quite frank on this you can't really blame them - they need this game like a hole in the head - its quite a risk hosting the G8 in the North and they don't need this added workload - another masterful PR exercise by the GAA. :rolleyes:

4. Brewster is not the best located ground on the best of days - its always a bit of a walk on the best of days - a lot of Fermanagh support and the majority of Cavan support will be funnelled in the one route and as a concession they will open the gates at 10;45 am with nothing happened till throw in at 2 pm - gee thanks lads and you want 25 lids for an uncovered stand for the privilege..:eek::eek: Anyone that thinks an extra hour will cover this is simply deluded - this is going to be a clusterfúck of the highest order will huge tailbacks and people abandoning cars everwhere. Already I have heard of disruptions around Enniskillen from people only going up to do the shopping and its only Wednesday and security is only ramping up.

5. I for one won't be going and I know a lot of good Cavan and Fermanagh GAA people that feel the same way and I wouldn't be surprised if this game is abandoned or forced to be called off by a power greater than the GAA but I wonder is this what the Ulster Council want.

Rant over!!

Lemlin wrote: »

Talking to a few Fermanagh folk today and they reckon the game going ahead is madness. Apparently Enniskillen is basically going to be a closed town at the weekend. All the shops are closing etc.

There's talk of about 15,000 protestors turning up as around that number generally turns up but the locals are expecting around 4,000 to 5,000 as Enniskillen isn't near the size of the cities the G8 would normally occur in.

To have the game going ahead there in that sort of environment is madness. Anyway, let the Ulster council press ahead.

Have to say I'm disappointed about the juniors. I didn't expect them to perform as well this year as they've lost players like Martin Reilly, Martin Dunne, Joshua Hayes, Declan McKiernan and Killian Brady but I was still hopeful they'd make the final.

It's a great competition and I can't understand why Ulster don't start a junior championship. It's certainly helped younger Cavan players make the transition from U21 to senior.

I left Dundalk at 11 oclock and was at the pitch, where I had a parking pass, shortly after 12.30. Three policemen at the roundabout in the middle of Lisnaskea and just a few police vehicles in traffic from Maguiresbridge into Enniskillen is all I saw. Nobody directing traffic in the town. No sign of any protestors.

Timed my passage from the pitch to the Belfast road after the match 35 minutes. I was surprised that there were no police at the junctions directing traffic, this would have speeded things up significantly. Maybe the GAA didn't want them involved.

Anyway the whole thing went off without a hitch from my point of view and the ones that stayed away needn't have done so. And Cavan won so it was all good.

Frankie Lee · 16-06-2013 06:54PM

I've watched all the Ulster Championship games on BBC this year, while there coverage is not perfect it is a brilliant in comparison to RTE. McConville is an excellent analyst while the commentator(Niblock?) is competent and a non-irritant unlike Canning and Morrissey.

Another decent performance from Cavan even if they could well have been beaten in the end. I'd fancy them to beat Monaghan now before giving a good account of themselves against Donegal(They'd have a great chance if Down can cause an upset). If Cavan manage to keep a good set-up in place for the next few years they will surely make a breakthrough into the top 8 teams in the country.

Fermanagh will beat any below average teams in the qualifiers.

tayto lover · 16-06-2013 07:33PM

What did you think of the referee today lads?
I thought he could have sent a Fermanagh man or two off for late and reckless tackles. They tried to take Mackey out of the game.
I also thought he got it hard to award Cavan frees at times.

Lemlin · 16-06-2013 07:37PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What did you think of the referee today lads?
I thought he could have sent a Fermanagh man or two off for late and reckless tackles. They tried to take Mackey out of the game.
I also thought he got it hard to award Cavan frees at times.

I thought he did okay. Fermanagh were more cynical in the second half. Quigley should have gone for that shoulder to the face on Mackey.

I also think Cavan should of had at least a free in the first half when Keating was blocked running in for Givney's skyward effort. One of the Fermanagh lads got a yellow so why a free wasn't given is beyond me.

I also thought Martin Reilly was fouled by three men but no free was given. When the same had happened a few minutes earlier down the Cavan end, a free was given to Corrigan.

Pete_Cavan · 16-06-2013 07:44PM

Good win and I think Cavan are a far more accomplished team than Fermanagh. Some of the tackling by Cavan players was excellent, while we packed the defence, many times Cavan defenders were able to dispossess Fermanagh men in one on one situations. Mackey was excellent today and DJ, Toasty, Dunne and McLoughlin were also very good. McEnroe going off was a big blow to us because he was winning breaks around the middle and they started to dominate midfield when he went off.

Perhaps it was not possible to see on tv but being at the match I thought Fermanagh were a very dirty team - lots of body checks off the ball and that kind of thing. Most of this went unnoticed by the ref, although twice he booked/ticked Fermanagh men after the incident on the advice of his umpire or linesman. Anyway, I think this gave Fermanagh a big advantage because Cavan defenders were literally prevented from tackling the ball carrier at times. With a more vigilant ref, Cavan would have won a lot more comfortably.

Tom Joad · 16-06-2013 09:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What did you think of the referee today lads?
I thought he could have sent a Fermanagh man or two off for late and reckless tackles. They tried to take Mackey out of the game.
I also thought he got it hard to award Cavan frees at times.

He done alright all in all - that't the most free flowing game I've seen him referee. I too thought Sean Quigley could have walked for the challenge on Mackey. I was expecting the worst from him but it seemed to me to be an easy enough game to referee.

Tom Joad · 16-06-2013 10:02PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I left Dundalk at 11 oclock and was at the pitch, where I had a parking pass, shortly after 12.30. Three policemen at the roundabout in the middle of Lisnaskea and just a few police vehicles in traffic from Maguiresbridge into Enniskillen is all I saw. Nobody directing traffic in the town. No sign of any protestors.

Timed my passage from the pitch to the Belfast road after the match 35 minutes. I was surprised that there were no police at the junctions directing traffic, this would have speeded things up significantly. Maybe the GAA didn't want them involved.

Anyway the whole thing went off without a hitch from my point of view and the ones that stayed away needn't have done so. And Cavan won so it was all good.

Haven't spoken to anyone who was at the game yet but tv said attendance was less than 10k :eek: which helped congestion wise I'm sure. Would I be right in saying that you would be avoiding any match traffic coming in that way. Yesterday out my there was a procession of garda vans heading for the border - even seen a UN truck - thought it might have been carrying Cormac Reilly:D:D

Lemlin · 16-06-2013 11:18PM

Tom Joad wrote: »

Haven't spoken to anyone who was at the game yet but tv said attendance was less than 10k :eek: which helped congestion wise I'm sure. Would I be right in saying that you would be avoiding any match traffic coming in that way. Yesterday out my there was a procession of garda vans heading for the border - even seen a UN truck - thought it might have been carrying Cormac Reilly:D:D

That's it exactly. Alot didn't travel or travelled on buses. There'll be a huge crowd in Clones in two weeks I'd say.

It's going to be a good fortnight for the county with the Donegal vs Down game in Breffni next weekend too.

Tom Joad · 17-06-2013 09:24AM

Anyone know what happened Rory Dunne that left his nose in a mess at the end?

cavan4sam · 17-06-2013 10:20PM

A big well done to all yesterday , another game we quite possibly should have lost when fermanagh gained the momentum , but the lads dug deep and pulled it out of the bag

great performances in most sectors though midfield is still a concern

looking forward to the monaghan game now and think we have a real chance a beating an ageing monaghan team

does anyone know if the minor game is on before it on the 29th ?

Tom Joad · 17-06-2013 10:30PM

cavan4sam wrote: »

A big well done to all yesterday , another game we quite possibly should have lost when fermanagh gained the momentum , but the lads dug deep and pulled it out of the bag

great performances in most sectors though midfield is still a concern

looking forward to the monaghan game now and think we have a real chance a beating an ageing monaghan team

does anyone know if the minor game is on before it on the 29th ?

Minor game is on before senior.

Wouldn't underestimate Monaghan and they will fancy their chances against us - again we should go in under the radar.

AFAIK Dick Clerkin will still be out injured which will help Cavan.

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