Travellers have just moved in up the road

handlemaster · 17-06-2013 06:51PM

If it were my land id ask them to move. Give them a day to do so. Then out with the slurry tank. Id be intitled to spread slurry on MY own land .

lkionm · 17-06-2013 06:59PM

nullzero wrote: »

Usually for hunting(poaching)/lamping rabbits. Sure there doin no harm to nobody, no harm to nobody, they wont be doin no robbin sir honest to gad they swear on their mothers eyes.

My little dog is hardly gonna decide one day its gonna go out hunt rabbits.

Im more on about the family dogs, not the bigger hunting dogs.

Rasheed · 17-06-2013 06:59PM

Festy wrote: »

Brown paper bag and a mussel,it will be grand like...

A mussel? I thought it was oysters that were aphrodisiacs.

lkionm · 17-06-2013 07:02PM

Rasheed wrote: »

A mussel? I thought it was oysters that were aphrodisiacs.

Use the mussel as a dental dam

DoozerT6 · 17-06-2013 07:05PM

dark crystal wrote: »

They do not see education as an important foundation for their children's future. Look up literacy levels amongst the travelling community and look up how many travellers finish secondary school or go to college.

A few months ago I had a traveller come up to me where I work and ask me to write a letter of request for him because he couldn't read or write.

He wasn't in his 50's or 60's. He was only 26. And could barely even sign his name. In my eyes, after all the efforts that have been made to integrate travellers over the past couple of decades, illiteracy like that is simply down to one thing. Choice.

kc90 · 17-06-2013 07:22PM

lkionm wrote: »

Thanks for the fun fact of day.

It also derived tinkering.
The more you know, guys

You're very welcome! Although I'm unsure what's fun about it?

Wibbs · 17-06-2013 07:23PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Indeed. Travellers have been treating people in the 'settled' community like muck for years. Camping illegally on land that isn't theirs to inhabit, stealing, intimidating, littering etc.
Let's not simplify this into a 'poor misunderstood travellers' issue. Let's start listening to the experiences of the 'settled' community as well as the endless tales of discrimination and woe that Pavee Point like to spin.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but travellers themselves insist on being marginilised.

They wish (and indeed campaign)to be recognised as a seperate ethnic group. They do not like to mingle outside their own communities and often marry within their own family.

They do not see education as an important foundation for their children's future. Look up literacy levels amongst the travelling community and look up how many travellers finish secondary school or go to college.

The levels of unemployment and social welfare amongst the travelling community are huge. 84% of them are unemployed. 84% of one community do not pay tax and cost the country millions in social welfare without any intention of ever contributing anything back financially.
In the 'settled' community the unemployment rate is 13%.

Now, tell me exactly how we, the 'settled' community, marginilise travellers any more than they marginilise themselves?

Sometimes I get extremely annoyed at how the settled community get the blame for ostrasicing travellers, when they do very little to integrate themselves or contribute to the communities they become part of.

QFT. While the argument is never entirely black and white, the stats and evidence does tend to paint one side significantly darker than the other.

SirDelboy18 · 17-06-2013 07:39PM

Can't remember ever having a positive experience with one. Work in a bar/hotel at the moment and the amount of times I've been threatened, abused, that they have tried to leave without paying, that they will book a room and try to sneak another 10+ people in etc - madness.

I don't care if I'm called a bigot but if I had a choice I would never, ever deal with one and I seriously pity the OP's current predicament.

skimpydoo · 17-06-2013 07:42PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

OP in all honesty I can think of far worse types to have living beside you....child abusers, gang members, drug dealers etc.

Next you will be mentioning priests. Be realistic.

Agent Smith · 17-06-2013 07:42PM

Get blackie Connors on the case

He'll sort them out

TheUsual · 17-06-2013 07:44PM

I am a Traveller in both time and space.

not yet · 17-06-2013 07:47PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Use that term in front of Travellers and you won't be long being corrected. "Tinker" is an archaic term that is now considered patronising and is often used in a derogatory manner. Groups are entitled to define themselves and what they wish to be called and tinker isn't on the list to be honest.

Start contributing to society and they can call themselves pink power for all I fcuking care. I'm sick to death of fat weddings and feuds on TV. What the fcuk is wrong with people. Name me one other section of this society that contributes so little but causes so much trouble.

I'll await the red card.

Cabaal · 17-06-2013 07:50PM

TheUsual wrote: »

I am a Traveller in both time and space.

Doctor?

dark crystal · 17-06-2013 07:54PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

A few months ago I had a traveller come up to me where I work and ask me to write a letter of request for him because he couldn't read or write.

He wasn't in his 50's or 60's. He was only 26. And could barely even sign his name. In my eyes, after all the efforts that have been made to integrate travellers over the past couple of decades, illiteracy like that is simply down to one thing. Choice.

Spot on.

In my daughter's primary school, travellers get fee school buses (my daughter doesn't), extra resources in the form of teacher's aids and many other incentives given to encourage an ongoing education.

Yet still, the level of absenteeism by travellers at primary level is shocking. The current level of acceptable absenteeism from school is 20 days;
30% of travellers missed 101 days or more in 2004, 22% missed 51-100 days, 37% missed 21-50 days and 11% missed 20 or less. Not one traveller achieved full attendance.

Now, If my child misses 20 days or more from school, I will get a letter fom the NEWB investigating the reasons for this.
If the NEWB considers that I as a parent am failing in my obligation, it must send me a School Attendance Notice warning that legal action will follow if my child does not attend school regularly. If I fail to comply, I may be prosecuted. If convicted, I may be fined €634.87 and/or imprisoned for a month and fined €253.95 for each subsequent day that I fail to send my child to school.
Now, of those 89% of traveller parents who failed to send their children to school regularly, I would be very interested to see how many of those were fined or prosecuted for it.

Again, it is not the settled community marginilising these travellers, it's the travellers themselves, who even when given extra resources to educate their children, still choose not to do so in large numbers.
How can travellers be expected to contribute anything valuable to society, when they are thwarted by their own parents at such an early age?

TheUsual · 17-06-2013 07:56PM

Cabaal wrote: »

Doctor?

No I'm only a Nurse.

Now, please put your trousers back on.

eviltwin · 17-06-2013 08:00PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Spot on.

In my daughter's primary school, travellers get fee school buses (my daughter doesn't), extra resources in the form of teacher's aids and many other incentives given to encourage an ongoing education.

Yet still, the level of absenteeism by travellers at primary level is shocking. The current level of acceptable absenteeism from school is 20 days;

30% of travellers missed 101 days or more in 2004, 22% missed 51-100 days, 37% missed 21-50 days and 11% missed 20 or less. Not one traveller achieved full attendance.

Now, If my child misses 20 days or more from school, I will get a letter fom the NEWB investigating the reasons for this.

If the NEWB considers that I as a parent am failing in my obligation, it must send me a School Attendance Notice warning that legal action will follow if my child does not attend school regularly. If I fail to comply, I may be prosecuted. If convicted, I may be fined €634.87 and/or imprisoned for a month and fined €253.95 for each subsequent day that I fail to send my child to school.

Now, of those 89% of traveller parents who failed to send their children to school for 21 days or more, I would be very interested to see how many of those were fined or prosecuted for it.

Again, it is not the settled community marginilising these travellers, it's the travellers themselves, who even when given extra resources to educate their children, still choose not to do so in large numbers.

How can travellers be expected to contribute anything valuable to society, when they are thwarted by their own parents at such an early age?

This is sadly true. There is a traveller family next door to me and their 7 year old hasn't been to school since before Christmas. I mentioned it to a friend of my sister who is a primary teacher and she said more than likely he'll slip through the net because the general view is he'll leave as soon as he can. She also said most teachers are probably happier when the traveller children aren't there because of how much of the teacher's extra time they take.

It's not acceptable. These kids should be taken into care.

Laneyh · 17-06-2013 08:03PM

briantwin wrote: »

Hi Lads and Lasses,

This morning much to my surprise and dismay a large number of caravans and vans have moved in within 100 meters of my house. Ordinarily i would not care, but due to the secluded area we live in it is of great concern to us and our neighbours.

Now before i get the army of bleeding hearts coming on giving me grief, i should clarify a few things.

1) they illegally entered the land
2) in our area there were other tinkers responsible for about 10 burglaries
3) They are now camped right next to the luas line

So i'm on here asking if anyone has any experience of this, and how we should go about trying to get them to move on? We have contacted the property managers and all the rest of that so we have to see what they say.
The Gardai notified me that they have had around 10 calls about them since this morning. They moved in last night.

The really big issue is that the field they have moved into is feckin huge and the idea of a mass migration into it is terrifying.

P.S. If you come on saying i am over reacting or that "they are people too "etc....or not all tinkers are criminals blah blah blah. I agree with you for the most part but you try having a van load of tinkers sitting outside your gaff for a week straight waiting for you to go to work so they can kick your front door in and then we'll talk. (This happened last year in the same house)

The area can't be that secluded if it's beside a LUAS line
Why did you use travellers in the post description but then go on to use the word tinker - unneccessary use of a derogatory term.

I previously had travellers camped beside me on our local soccer pitch for around 4-5 weeks
There were no burgalaries during that time and for the most part no negative interactions. Some of the traveller kids befriended the settled kids and a few parents got freaked out when the traveller kids asked the settled kids if they could take a shower in their house.

They did generate some rubbish and it meant the soccer pitch couldn't be fully utilised as a pitch - so annoying certainly but not the end of days by any stretch of the imagination.

That was a while ago and the law has changed since. So, if they are on private property which by the sounds of it they are, they most likely will be moved on fairly quickly.

I'm not saying your concerns are unwarranted but it is somewhat unfair to refer to them as tinkers and bring up the fact that other different travellers were responsible for a small number of crimes in the area.

ColeTrain · 17-06-2013 08:07PM

Laneyh wrote: »

They did generate some rubbish and it meant the soccer pitch couldn't be fully utilised as a pitch - so annoying certainly but not the end of days by any stretch of the imagination.

That's the mentality you're dealing with ,'**** everyone else we are here now'

Noreen1 · 17-06-2013 08:08PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

A few months ago I had a traveller come up to me where I work and ask me to write a letter of request for him because he couldn't read or write.

He wasn't in his 50's or 60's. He was only 26. And could barely even sign his name. In my eyes, after all the efforts that have been made to integrate travellers over the past couple of decades, illiteracy like that is simply down to one thing. Choice.

I'm of the opinion that there are good and bad travellers.
Certainly, that's been my experience, so, I'll neither jump on the "poor, misunderstood travellers" bandwagon, nor on the "burn them out" one.

Having said that, there are quite a few teenage lads who will grab the opportunity to leave school if they get the chance, whether they're from the travelling community, or the wider community, and if the parents themselves haven't had the benefit of an education, they may not view it as something all that valuable.
If the travelling community still lived in tents 40 years ago, when secondary school, rather than college was the norm for most people, then, realistically, best case scenario is likely to be a few more decades before the travelling community catch up.
All the efforts in the world wont persuade travellers, en masse, into education - until those that have been educated go on to educate their own children, and education becomes more of a "norm" within the community.
Bear in mind that it's only with the advent of "free" 3rd level education that many people within the wider community went on to third level, so, I'm not sure, realistically, if a few decades of effort is long enough to have the desired effect.

I can remember travellers coming around the area who camped in tents at the side of the road. You could nearly time when individual families would arrive.
Then, as now, some were welcome visitors to the community, willing to repair buckets, etc., and bringing news, even messages, from other parts of the Country.
Others were viewed with extreme disfavour - since anything that wasn't locked down tended to disappear around the same time those particular travellers did!

Not that much has changed, really - except maybe some of the youths have gotten more loutish, and arrogant in their behaviour - and the families whose appearance coincides with items going missing in the area tend to come around selling furniture - moving on - and things inexplicably go missing a few days later - just before they move on from the campsite in the next village, coincidentally!
The guards know who these guys are, just like the local community do - but they are never caught with enough stolen property to merit more than a slap on the wrist, when they're caught at all.

It seems to me that if the travelling community want to erase the stigma that is associated with being a traveller, then they need to go back to the way things used to be, when those who were well-behaved built up a relationship with the locals in the areas they visit - and disassociate themselves strongly from the loutish element.

I can distinctly remember one tinker - as he referred to himself at the time - on being asked what a newish group of travellers to the area were like, warning people to lock up everything in sight!
I've met modern travellers who were decent. The trouble is, the loutish ones seem to manage to tar all of them with the same brush.
It's not fair - but expecting people who have had bad experiences with the louts to be open-minded, is neither fair nor realistic, either.

The only solution, that I can see - is that the answer lies within the travelling Community themselves. Those that are decent need to disassociate themselves from the rogue element - but I acknowledge that with shorter travelling times, and less time spent in individual areas - that's a lot harder than it used to be.

MadsL · 17-06-2013 08:10PM

Wibbs wrote: »

With respect M, keep your slow handclap as it's hardly an argument. Should they not stay in one place or should they move? I have no problem with people staying, or indeed moving from one legal settlement to another if that's their buzz(and the rest of us don't fork out the majority of the costs for their lifestyle choice). However we're not talking about legal halting sites are we? We're talking about mass trespass, local intimidation, pollution and destruction and some aspects of criminality. EG if the majority of Travelers are in receipt of state benefits how are they funding their lifestyle? Answers on a postcard to the usual address. Never mind the serious health issues for the Traveler families themselves. It's no coincidence that longevity for Travelers is notably lower than for other Irish people.

That would be an argument indeed were it not for the overall drop by 21% in legal halting site provision in Ireland for the years 1996-2002. Source DoE.

Surveys in 2003 identified just 11% of the traveller population sited on illegal sites. source

Statistics show the bias that LAs have in trying to push travellers into housing. (or off legal halting site?)

The ratio of permanent halting sites to group houses has altered significantly. Between 1996 and 1999 halting site bay provision accounted for 61% of the overall figure for new permanent Traveller specific accommodation. Between 2000 and 2003 halting site bays provided accounted for just 28% of the total.

handlemaster · 17-06-2013 08:11PM

Laneyh wrote: »

The area can't be that secluded if it's beside a LUAS line
Why did you use travellers in the post description but then go on to use the word tinker - unneccessary use of a derogatory term.

I previously had travellers camped beside me on our local soccer pitch for around 4-5 weeks
There were no burgalaries during that time and for the most part no negative interactions. Some of the traveller kids befriended the settled kids and a few parents got freaked out when the traveller kids asked the settled kids if they could take a shower in their house.

They did generate some rubbish and it meant the soccer pitch couldn't be fully utilised as a pitch - so annoying certainly but not the end of days by any stretch of the imagination.

That was a while ago and the law has changed since. So, if they are on private property which by the sounds of it they are, they most likely will be moved on fairly
I'm not saying your concerns are unwarranted but it is somewhat unfair to refer to them as tinkers and bring up the fact that other different travellers were responsible for a small number of crimes in the area.

so the parents couldnt wash their kids ? They parked on a football pitch with no regard for tge local people then left rubbish. So is this excepable from everone now ? Also you say not the end of the world no robberies... we are setting the bar low here

Laneyh · 17-06-2013 08:12PM

kc90 wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Tinker arises from their past when they fixed up tin/metal items for locals.

It is a derogatory term in modern times.

I mean there used to be peasants too but you wouldn't refer to anyone in this country as a peasant now.

Galwayguy35 · 17-06-2013 08:13PM

Laneyh wrote: »

The area can't be that secluded if it's beside a LUAS line
Why did you use travellers in the post description but then go on to use the word tinker - unneccessary use of a derogatory term.

I previously had travellers camped beside me on our local soccer pitch for around 4-5 weeks
There were no burgalaries during that time and for the most part no negative interactions. Some of the traveller kids befriended the settled kids and a few parents got freaked out when the traveller kids asked the settled kids if they could take a shower in their house.

They did generate some rubbish and it meant the soccer pitch couldn't be fully utilised as a pitch - so annoying certainly but not the end of days by any stretch of the imagination.

That was a while ago and the law has changed since. So, if they are on private property which by the sounds of it they are, they most likely will be moved on fairly quickly.

I'm not saying your concerns are unwarranted but it is somewhat unfair to refer to them as tinkers and bring up the fact that other different travellers were responsible for a small number of crimes in the area.

Why are you making excuses for them, they have no right to camp on a soccer pitch.

Why the hell do they think they have a right to move on to private land and set up camp there.

Most of us are sick and tired of the victim card being played by them.

I am pie · 17-06-2013 08:15PM

MadsL wrote: »

That would be an argument indeed were it not for the overall drop by 21% in legal halting site provision in Ireland for the years 1996-2002. Source DoE.

Surveys in 2003 identified just 11% of the traveller population sited on illegal sites. source

Statistics show the bias that LAs have in trying to push travellers into housing. (or off legal halting site?)

10 year old statistics.

Is there a capacity issue at legal sites? Are their representative groups raising this as an issue ?

Genuine questions.

DoozerT6 · 17-06-2013 08:19PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

Those that are decent need to disassociate themselves from the rogue element

That's pretty hard for them when they don't really associate with anybody outside of their own community and there is so much intermarriage between families. Hard to disassociate yourself from most of your relatives, especially if your caravans are parked beside each other.

Laneyh · 17-06-2013 08:23PM

handlemaster wrote: »

so the parents couldnt wash their kids ? They parked on a football pitch with no regard for tge local people then left rubbish. So is this excepable from everone now ? Also you say not the end of the world no robberies... we are setting the bar low here

FFS try and retain some perspective.

Of course they could wash their kids but they didn't have electric showers that people in houses would have.

They were moved on, it was not a desirable situation but at the same time the people themselves did no harm.

If I wanted to build a holiday home somewhere I would need to get planning permission - I didn't think it was great that other people decided to make the soccer pitch their Summer residence but nor did I or any of my neighbours feel under any kind of threat.

If a bunch of squatters showed up some place I wouldn't be thrilled either

You are setting the bar low to keep the caravans out.

I have nothing to do with any bar.

The OP said that other travellers were responsible for 10 burgalaries in the area - this may be true or untrue either way they were different people.

bogwalrus · 17-06-2013 08:27PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Let them stay in the houses that the various county councils bend over backwards to provide for them, and we the taxpayers of this country pay for.

Hows that for a solution.

There are many ghost estates so why not Nama give them houses to call their own. Each family get one house. They can either take care of their home or destroy it but their not getting another one.

There is a massive ghost estate in Cork that could easily hold 60 families.

Laneyh · 17-06-2013 08:28PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why are you making excuses for them, they have no right to camp on a soccer pitch.

Why the hell do they think they have a right to move on to private land and set up camp there.

Most of us are sick and tired of the victim card being played by them.

I am not making excuses for anyone. The OP anticipated some reaction to his/ her statement.
I merely queried 2 of the 3 statements made.

How can somewhere near a LUAS stop be secluded ?
Why assume that they have anything to do with other people in the area who committed crime?

I am not one of 'them' and am not playing any cards.
I just don't think that prejudice and hysteria will help anyone's cause either
- least of all the OPs

ColeTrain · 17-06-2013 08:36PM

bogwalrus wrote: »

There are many ghost estates so why not Nama give them houses to call their own. Each family get one house. They can either take care of their home or destroy it but their not getting another one.

There is a massive ghost estate in Cork that could easily hold 60 families.

I wonder will Nama give me a house too

MadsL · 17-06-2013 08:37PM

I am pie wrote: »

10 year old statistics.

Is there a capacity issue at legal sites? Are their representative groups raising this as an issue ?

Genuine questions.

Yes.

In 1995, the report of the Task Force on the Travelling Community recommended that 3,100 units of Traveller specific accommodation be provided by the year 2000. By the end of 2004 only 98 units of this accommodation had been provided. The number of Traveller families awaiting permanent accommodation at the end of 2004 was in excess of 3,500. The additional number of Traveller families accommodated in 2004 was 231.

Yes.

The provision of 1000 transient units or pull-in/pull off sites has not been met.

Since 2007 to 2012 over €50 million was the under-spend on Traveller accommodation although there is a need for at least 819 units (327 unauthorised sites; 492 families sharing with others) in November 2011.

http://itmtrav.ie/publication/myview/107

Travellers have just moved in up the road

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