garda fine in Tesco Clearwater Car Park

seethestars · 12-06-2013 08:16PM #1

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy · 12-06-2013 08:48PM

Its regarded as a public road as the public can access it. Which means the gardai are within their rights to issue you with a fine.

Suppose you were only going to be "two minutes"

12-06-2013 09:00PM

Ah we all learn the hard way.

I got done a year and a half ago or so for nipping into the post office for 5 mins got 80 Euro fine from Carlow county Council.

Worst think was a ticket it would have only cost me 60 cent !!!

Lesson learned for sure..........the hard way !!!

tk123 · 12-06-2013 09:00PM

Where were you parked? Outside the chemist etc?

Merl1n · 12-06-2013 10:29PM

OP whats the meaning of a double yellow line ?

12-06-2013 10:39PM

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

Its regarded as a public road as the public can access it. Which means the gardai are within their rights to issue you with a fine.

Suppose you were only going to be "two minutes"

However, a public road is a road which is maintained by a local authority. Unless Clearwater is maintain by council, it is not a public road, and therefore would the Gardaí have the power to issues fine on it?

testicle · 12-06-2013 10:42PM

Merl1n wrote: »

OP whats the meaning of a double yellow line ?

It means you can park there for up to 2 minutes while visiting a nearby shop.

coylemj · 12-06-2013 10:42PM

There's 'public place' and there's 'public road'.

A road can be private property and a 'public place' at the same time. For example a shopping centre when it's open to the public with vehicles is a public place under road traffic legislation but it is not and never can be a public road because it's privately owned.

A 'public road' is a road the responsibility for which rests with the local authority. Double yellow lines, zebra crossings and the like have no legal effect when painted on private property (which would include shopping centre car parks) and the Gardai have no brief to hand out tickets in a shopping centre car park.

You can be done in a shopping centre car park by the Gardai for driving with no licence, no insurance, drunk driving and dangerous driving because it is a public place but not for parking on a double-yellow line because it is not a public road.

The Gardai can only enforce parking regulations set down by the local authority and the local authority's writ does not run on private property.

kona · 12-06-2013 10:44PM

seethestars wrote: »

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

Just pay the fine!

johndaman66 · 12-06-2013 11:04PM

Coylemj I was very much thinking the same to be the case. I do not hold too much sympathy for perfectly able bodied people who inconsiderately abandon their car on double yellow lines causing obstructions and inconvenience to others. Then pedal the line I'll only be 2 minutes inside....In any event I've noticed 2 minutes is seldom 2 minutes in this country but thats another story

However, I do not believe the Gardai's authority would extend to enabling them to clamp a car as in the OP's case if the car park is privately owned ground. If such was the case I would certainly imagine the Gardai would also have the authority to fine people parked in disabled spaces in these carparks with no disabled card displayed...I certainly do not believe thats the case (not that I'm condoning such practice either)

Supergurrier · 12-06-2013 11:05PM

There is no arguement here just learn the lesson and pay the fine

slimjimmc · 12-06-2013 11:11PM

kona wrote: »

Just pay the fine!

Supergurrier wrote: »

There is no arguement here just learn the lesson and pay the fine

For what offence contrary to what law?

galwaytt · 12-06-2013 11:28PM

seethestars wrote: »

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

If it's not a public road, they can't ticket you. For a start the 'law' they're enforcing - yellow lines - applies to those empowered under law: a local authority, for example.

Two guys in a private car park with a can of yellow paint does not a no-parking zone make. And neither can they expect, nor should the AGS expect to 'enforce' it, either. 'Cos if it is, then if I put 2 yellow lines outside my gate, I can call AGS to ticket people there - is that the arbiter ?

stimpson · 12-06-2013 11:35PM

Don't pay the fine OP. wait for the summons and go and represent yourself in court based on the responses here.

I'm sick of the mouth breathers in Clearwater parking on the double yellows in front of the chemist so 2 cars can barely pass each other. It's a massive car park - can they not walk the few extra feet to buy their cans of Dutch Gold?

Oh, and parking a vehicle in a dangerous position is a mandatory court appearance and 5 points on conviction.

Guy:Incognito · 13-06-2013 12:02AM

galwaytt wrote: »

Two guys in a private car park with a can of yellow paint does not a no-parking zone make.

Course it does. Its their car park. If they want it to be for parking elephants only then that's their choice on their land. People should have the common courtesy to obey whatever rules the owner decides on or don't use the land.

wonski · 13-06-2013 12:12AM

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

Senna · 13-06-2013 12:17AM

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

No

Kristopherus · 13-06-2013 12:21AM

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

Yes that is a stupid question:rolleyes: But then, if you want to try it out why not do so. And before you go, ring the cops:D:D:D.

wonski · 13-06-2013 12:21AM

Senna wrote: »

No

Still don't get this. What about doing doughnuts?
Are parking offences separated from road traffic offences?

wonski · 13-06-2013 12:23AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Yes that is a stupid question:rolleyes: But then, if you want to try it out why not do so. And before you go, ring the cops:D:D:D.

I definitely don't want to try, just can't understand why in some instances Garda have the power, and in some they can't do anything.

gowley · 13-06-2013 12:29AM

johndaman66 wrote: »

Coylemj I was very much thinking the same to be the case. I do not hold too much sympathy for perfectly able bodied people who inconsiderately abandon their car on double yellow lines causing obstructions and inconvenience to others. Then pedal the line I'll only be 2 minutes inside....In any event I've noticed 2 minutes is seldom 2 minutes in this country but thats another story

However, I do not believe the Gardai's authority would extend to enabling them to clamp a car as in the OP's case if the car park is privately owned ground. If such was the case I would certainly imagine the Gardai would also have the authority to fine people parked in disabled spaces in these carparks with no disabled card displayed...I certainly do not believe thats the case (not that I'm condoning such practice either)

his car wasnt clamped. he got a ticket in the post

Kristopherus · 13-06-2013 12:35AM

wonski wrote: »

I definitely don't want to try, just can't understand why in some instances Garda have the power, and in some they can't do anything.

Gardai can exercise their power in any public place. A public place is anywhere that the public can freely assemble or traverse. In most cases around the country, supermarket car parks have been hi-jacked by the local authority & turnd into cash cows by having punters paying to use that car park.

Mister Jingles · 13-06-2013 12:56AM

Where did you park just outside the butchers/barbers ? It would of been a lot easier to just park in a spot, up there is one of the easiest places to get parking.

coylemj · 13-06-2013 01:04AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Gardai can exercise their power in any public place. A public place is anywhere that the public can freely assemble or traverse.

That's a bit of a wild and baseless statement. Gardai cannot hand out parking tickets in shopping centre car parks just because the owner decides to paint double-yellow lines where he pleases

Kristopherus wrote: »

In most cases around the country, supermarket car parks have been hi-jacked by the local authority & turnd into cash cows by having punters paying to use that car park.

No they have not. A supermarket car park is typically private property and the local authority can neither charge for parking or dish out parking tickets.

If the local authority creates a shopping centre on publicly owned property and keeps the parking spaces in public ownership then they can impose charges and clamp cars to their heart's content, same as they can do on the public streets in their area.

coylemj · 13-06-2013 01:14AM

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

It's only a stupid question if you haven't read post #8

wonski · 13-06-2013 04:15AM

coylemj wrote: »

The Gardai can only enforce parking regulations set down by the local authority and the local authority's writ does not run on private property.

This is the bit I can't understand to be honest, but I get what you're saying...
This is ridiculous system if You ask me - what the local authority has to do with drivers blocking entrances, parking wherever they want and how the hell local council dictates what Garda can do and where?
The whole private property/public road thing is beyond my understanding tbh.
I have one shop on the road in front of my house, this is the corner where people get to their estate. Every time me, or one of the neighbours want to turn left from main road behind another car you got stuck because half of them decide to stop dead right there to get their sandwich/bottle of water or whatever.
Road is narrow so you have to wait to get through if there is another car coming from the opposite side of the road. These morons don't care there is 20+ parking behind the shop.
Now I do understand why.

corktina · 13-06-2013 09:58AM

i'd say you would successfully overturn such a parking ticket, but I think that it would be a lot of hastle and expense and the point of the exercise is to get people to park properly in the first place. I'm guessing the Gard knows this

galwaytt · 13-06-2013 10:03AM

corktina wrote: »

i'd say you would successfully overturn such a parking ticket, but I think that it would be a lot of hastle and expense and the point of the exercise is to get people to park properly in the first place. I'm guessing the Gard knows this

I don't think there is any doubt you could overturn it, and I think if you make the case to the Garda that it wasn't a public road, he'll be just as conscious of what a Justice will say about it in open court/wasting time etc as well. If it's (politely) pointed out to him that it's not a public road, that is.......

13-06-2013 10:18AM

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

wonski wrote: »

Still don't get this. What about doing doughnuts?
Are parking offences separated from road traffic offences?

Some are and some aren't.

Drink driving is listed under "public place" therefore, it's pretty much illegal anywhere the public have access. Same with careless/dangerous driving which would cover doughnuts.

However, parking regulations (ie double yellow lines) specifically say public road. And if the "offence" occurs on private road (could be public place) the Gardaí cannot excise their powers for the specific offence (parking on DYL) on the private road

stimpson · 13-06-2013 10:30AM

From the RTA 1961:

55.—(1) A person shall not park in a public place a vehicle in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the place.

13-06-2013 10:36AM

stimpson wrote: »

From the RTA 1961:

55.—(1) A person shall not park in a public place a vehicle in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the place.

Indeed, but the OP said the fine was for double yellow lines, not dangerous parking.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36

Prohibitions on Parking
36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;

garda fine in Tesco Clearwater Car Park

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