garda fine in Tesco Clearwater Car Park

seethestars

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Its regarded as a public road as the public can access it. Which means the gardai are within their rights to issue you with a fine.

Suppose you were only going to be "two minutes"

Ah we all learn the hard way.

I got done a year and a half ago or so for nipping into the post office for 5 mins got 80 Euro fine from Carlow county Council.

Worst think was a ticket it would have only cost me 60 cent !!!

Lesson learned for sure..........the hard way !!!

tk123

Where were you parked? Outside the chemist etc?

Merl1n

OP whats the meaning of a double yellow line ?

Johnny Electricity

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

Its regarded as a public road as the public can access it. Which means the gardai are within their rights to issue you with a fine.

Suppose you were only going to be "two minutes"

However, a public road is a road which is maintained by a local authority. Unless Clearwater is maintain by council, it is not a public road, and therefore would the Gardaí have the power to issues fine on it?

testicle

Merl1n wrote: »

OP whats the meaning of a double yellow line ?

It means you can park there for up to 2 minutes while visiting a nearby shop.

coylemj

There's 'public place' and there's 'public road'.

A road can be private property and a 'public place' at the same time. For example a shopping centre when it's open to the public with vehicles is a public place under road traffic legislation but it is not and never can be a public road because it's privately owned.

A 'public road' is a road the responsibility for which rests with the local authority. Double yellow lines, zebra crossings and the like have no legal effect when painted on private property (which would include shopping centre car parks) and the Gardai have no brief to hand out tickets in a shopping centre car park.

You can be done in a shopping centre car park by the Gardai for driving with no licence, no insurance, drunk driving and dangerous driving because it is a public place but not for parking on a double-yellow line because it is not a public road.

The Gardai can only enforce parking regulations set down by the local authority and the local authority's writ does not run on private property.

kona

seethestars wrote: »

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

Just pay the fine!

johndaman66

Coylemj I was very much thinking the same to be the case. I do not hold too much sympathy for perfectly able bodied people who inconsiderately abandon their car on double yellow lines causing obstructions and inconvenience to others. Then pedal the line I'll only be 2 minutes inside....In any event I've noticed 2 minutes is seldom 2 minutes in this country but thats another story

However, I do not believe the Gardai's authority would extend to enabling them to clamp a car as in the OP's case if the car park is privately owned ground. If such was the case I would certainly imagine the Gardai would also have the authority to fine people parked in disabled spaces in these carparks with no disabled card displayed...I certainly do not believe thats the case (not that I'm condoning such practice either)

Supergurrier

There is no arguement here just learn the lesson and pay the fine

slimjimmc

kona wrote: »

Just pay the fine!

Supergurrier wrote: »

There is no arguement here just learn the lesson and pay the fine

For what offence contrary to what law?

galwaytt

seethestars wrote: »

I got a fine through the post for parking on double yellow lines in Tesco Clearwater, Finglas.

There is a sign there saying that clamping is in operation by Euro Car Parks I think it is.
Does that make it a private car park and if so does it mean the Garda cant issue a fine?

If it's not a public road, they can't ticket you. For a start the 'law' they're enforcing - yellow lines - applies to those empowered under law: a local authority, for example.

Two guys in a private car park with a can of yellow paint does not a no-parking zone make. And neither can they expect, nor should the AGS expect to 'enforce' it, either. 'Cos if it is, then if I put 2 yellow lines outside my gate, I can call AGS to ticket people there - is that the arbiter ?

stimpson

Don't pay the fine OP. wait for the summons and go and represent yourself in court based on the responses here.

I'm sick of the mouth breathers in Clearwater parking on the double yellows in front of the chemist so 2 cars can barely pass each other. It's a massive car park - can they not walk the few extra feet to buy their cans of Dutch Gold?

Oh, and parking a vehicle in a dangerous position is a mandatory court appearance and 5 points on conviction.

Guy:Incognito

galwaytt wrote: »

Two guys in a private car park with a can of yellow paint does not a no-parking zone make.

Course it does. Its their car park. If they want it to be for parking elephants only then that's their choice on their land. People should have the common courtesy to obey whatever rules the owner decides on or don't use the land.

wonski

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

Senna

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

No

Kristopherus

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

Yes that is a stupid question:rolleyes: But then, if you want to try it out why not do so. And before you go, ring the cops:D:D:D.

wonski

Senna wrote: »

No

Still don't get this. What about doing doughnuts?
Are parking offences separated from road traffic offences?

wonski

Kristopherus wrote: »

Yes that is a stupid question:rolleyes: But then, if you want to try it out why not do so. And before you go, ring the cops:D:D:D.

I definitely don't want to try, just can't understand why in some instances Garda have the power, and in some they can't do anything.

gowley

johndaman66 wrote: »

Coylemj I was very much thinking the same to be the case. I do not hold too much sympathy for perfectly able bodied people who inconsiderately abandon their car on double yellow lines causing obstructions and inconvenience to others. Then pedal the line I'll only be 2 minutes inside....In any event I've noticed 2 minutes is seldom 2 minutes in this country but thats another story

However, I do not believe the Gardai's authority would extend to enabling them to clamp a car as in the OP's case if the car park is privately owned ground. If such was the case I would certainly imagine the Gardai would also have the authority to fine people parked in disabled spaces in these carparks with no disabled card displayed...I certainly do not believe thats the case (not that I'm condoning such practice either)

his car wasnt clamped. he got a ticket in the post

Kristopherus

wonski wrote: »

I definitely don't want to try, just can't understand why in some instances Garda have the power, and in some they can't do anything.

Gardai can exercise their power in any public place. A public place is anywhere that the public can freely assemble or traverse. In most cases around the country, supermarket car parks have been hi-jacked by the local authority & turnd into cash cows by having punters paying to use that car park.

Mister Jingles

Where did you park just outside the butchers/barbers ? It would of been a lot easier to just park in a spot, up there is one of the easiest places to get parking.

coylemj

Kristopherus wrote: »

Gardai can exercise their power in any public place. A public place is anywhere that the public can freely assemble or traverse.

That's a bit of a wild and baseless statement. Gardai cannot hand out parking tickets in shopping centre car parks just because the owner decides to paint double-yellow lines where he pleases

Kristopherus wrote: »

In most cases around the country, supermarket car parks have been hi-jacked by the local authority & turnd into cash cows by having punters paying to use that car park.

No they have not. A supermarket car park is typically private property and the local authority can neither charge for parking or dish out parking tickets.

If the local authority creates a shopping centre on publicly owned property and keeps the parking spaces in public ownership then they can impose charges and clamp cars to their heart's content, same as they can do on the public streets in their area.

coylemj

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

It's only a stupid question if you haven't read post #8

wonski

coylemj wrote: »

The Gardai can only enforce parking regulations set down by the local authority and the local authority's writ does not run on private property.

This is the bit I can't understand to be honest, but I get what you're saying...
This is ridiculous system if You ask me - what the local authority has to do with drivers blocking entrances, parking wherever they want and how the hell local council dictates what Garda can do and where?
The whole private property/public road thing is beyond my understanding tbh.
I have one shop on the road in front of my house, this is the corner where people get to their estate. Every time me, or one of the neighbours want to turn left from main road behind another car you got stuck because half of them decide to stop dead right there to get their sandwich/bottle of water or whatever.
Road is narrow so you have to wait to get through if there is another car coming from the opposite side of the road. These morons don't care there is 20+ parking behind the shop.
Now I do understand why.

corktina

i'd say you would successfully overturn such a parking ticket, but I think that it would be a lot of hastle and expense and the point of the exercise is to get people to park properly in the first place. I'm guessing the Gard knows this

galwaytt

corktina wrote: »

i'd say you would successfully overturn such a parking ticket, but I think that it would be a lot of hastle and expense and the point of the exercise is to get people to park properly in the first place. I'm guessing the Gard knows this

I don't think there is any doubt you could overturn it, and I think if you make the case to the Garda that it wasn't a public road, he'll be just as conscious of what a Justice will say about it in open court/wasting time etc as well. If it's (politely) pointed out to him that it's not a public road, that is.......

wonski

wonski wrote: »

It may be stupid question but if i get drunk in the place can I just drive around the car park as Garda can do nothing about this?

wonski wrote: »

Still don't get this. What about doing doughnuts?
Are parking offences separated from road traffic offences?

Some are and some aren't.

Drink driving is listed under "public place" therefore, it's pretty much illegal anywhere the public have access. Same with careless/dangerous driving which would cover doughnuts.

However, parking regulations (ie double yellow lines) specifically say public road. And if the "offence" occurs on private road (could be public place) the Gardaí cannot excise their powers for the specific offence (parking on DYL) on the private road

stimpson

From the RTA 1961:

55.—(1) A person shall not park in a public place a vehicle in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the place.

stimpson

stimpson wrote: »

From the RTA 1961:

55.—(1) A person shall not park in a public place a vehicle in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to be likely to cause danger to other persons using the place.

Indeed, but the OP said the fine was for double yellow lines, not dangerous parking.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36

Prohibitions on Parking
36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;

stimpson

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed, but the OP said the fine was for double yellow lines, not dangerous parking.

You could be parked on a double yellow line and get a fine for being parked in a dangerous position. If he's unable to park legally in a massive car park, then maybe he's unable to accurately convey the details of the fine.

Regardless, if he goes to the guard to tell him how to do his job, it's entirely possible he'll end up in court with a larger fine and 5 points.

tk123

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Where did you park just outside the butchers/barbers ? It would of been a lot easier to just park in a spot, up there is one of the easiest places to get parking.

+1 - sorry OP! No reason to park there and get in the way - there's always spaces at the side near the shop.
http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=53.383124,-6.296346&ll=53.382941,-6.295673&spn=0.001037,0.001523&hnear=0x48670deedaf14651:0x936bbf8904d8946f,53.383124,-6.296346&gl=ie&t=h&z=19

seethestars

kona wrote: »

Just pay the fine!

im not questioning i was parked on yellow lines, which i shouldnt have been. the point here is that people are issuing fines where they have no authority to do so.

stimpson

seethestars wrote: »

im not questioning i was parked on yellow lines, which i shouldnt have been. the point here is that people are issuing fines where they have no authority to do so.

Just go and see the guard and offer to arm wrestle him for it.

tk123

seethestars wrote: »

im not questioning i was parked on yellow lines, which i shouldnt have been. the point here is that people are issuing fines where they have no authority to do so.

What probably happened OP, is that you were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guards were over in Burger King having an XL Whopper meal, got a call to head to Tescos cos some kids were on the rob, chased the kids but got out of breath and lost them at your car so gave you a ticket so they wouldn't get slagged off at the station.:p

galwaytt

stimpson wrote: »

You could be parked on a double yellow line and get a fine for being parked in a dangerous position. If he's unable to park legally in a massive car park, then maybe he's unable to accurately convey the details of the fine.

Regardless, if he goes to the guard to tell him how to do his job, it's entirely possible he'll end up in court with a larger fine and 5 points.

Irrelevant if the road is not a public one. Even the 'dangerous position' one, even if blindingly obvious, still can't be issued a fine from the State for a piece of property (private land) they have no jurisdiction over.

OP - why not just talk to the Garda in question ? And, curiously, what is down as the location on the ticket ?

drunkmonkey

I long for the days when Gardaì used to give parking fines, now were stuck with these little neo nazi ****e heads who think there Garda patrolling our streets.

Nice to see some old school Garda work going on.

stimpson

galwaytt wrote: »

Irrelevant if the road is not a public one. Even the 'dangerous position' one, even if blindingly obvious, still can't be issued a fine from the State for a piece of property (private land) they have no jurisdiction over.

For this the RTA specifies public place as opposed to public road. Private land to which the public has access is a public place.

slimjimmc

stimpson wrote: »

For this the RTA specifies public place as opposed to public road. Private land to which the public has access is a public place.

Indeed, it's a subtle but critical distinction.
Looking at the Google Maps aerial view I think it would be easy to argue that any parking on those double yellow lines is unlikely to pose a danger to anyone since traffic would be moving slowly (eg <30km/h imo).

seethestars

The garda are aware they cannot issue a fine in a private car park.
So the only issue outstanding is whether or not it is a private car park.
The garda reckon its a public car park.
While all the signs in Tesco state that this car park is managed by euro car parks on behalf of tesco.

seethestars

stimpson wrote: »

For this the RTA specifies public place as opposed to public road. Private land to which the public has access is a public place.

Can you tell me where it is an offence to park in a public place. I can only find reference to parking on a public road or Parking of vehicles in parking places on public roads.
cheers

stimpson

seethestars wrote: »

Can you tell me where it is an offence to park in a public place. I can only find reference to parking on a public road or Parking of vehicles in parking places on public roads.
cheers

I said parked dangerously. I posted the details here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85052765&postcount=30

seethestars

ah right. Well the fine was for double yellow lines, which states parking on a public road as the offence.

goz83

I would not pay the fine, but I would not have parked on double yellows where there is ample parking spaces nearby

antodeco

Hijacking the thread slightly, but the road in Parkwest is not a public road, but used as a normal road. Do the Gardai have powers on it?

stimpson

slimjimmc wrote: »

Indeed, it's a subtle but critical distinction.
Looking at the Google Maps aerial view I think it would be easy to argue that any parking on those double yellow lines is unlikely to pose a danger to anyone since traffic would be moving slowly (eg <30km/h imo).

You obviously have no experience of the driving standard in Finglas, and Clearwater in particular.

Also, depending on the time of day that area could have swarms of kids. Just takes one to walk out between 2 badly parked cars...

slimjimmc

stimpson wrote: »

You obviously have no experience of the driving standard in Finglas, and Clearwater in particular.

None whatsoever, and I detect a hint that I should be thankful for it :P

stimpson wrote: »

Also, depending on the time of day that area could have swarms of kids. Just takes one to walk out between 2 badly parked cars...

True, but a kid could just as easily walk out between 2 properly parked cars on the opposite side of the road.

antodeco

antodeco wrote: »

Hijacking the thread slightly, but the road in Parkwest is not a public road, but used as a normal road. Do the Gardai have powers on it?

Depends on the offence. If it "public place" for the offence then yes, Garda have full power to enforce law of specific offence. If its "public road" for offence, then no, Garda do not have power to enforce specific offence.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

If its "public road" for offence, then no, Garda do not have power to enforce specific offence.

Forgive me for splitting hairs, SFA on TV.......

It's not that the Gardai 'do not have the power to enforce....', it's that in the case of specific offences, there are no regulations to enforce because they do not apply on private property, examples being parking regulations (e.g. single/double yellow lines and disabled bays) and speed limits.

DOH! Lock, stock and two smoking barrels starting on ITV!

gurramok

Was in Clearwater yesterday. For the first time in years, there was not a single car parked on double yellow lines and this was on a busy Saturday, amazing stuff. Must be some sort of clampdown happening!