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what is the big thing about the Lions?

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  • 11-06-2013 12:05pm
    #1
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭


    I follow rugby....but I dont get the thing about the Lions!

    I know its been going for 50/60 years and is 'technically' seen as international grade rugby..but from my view
    A-Its an excuse to get a GB team (including Ireland in there)
    B-Its pretty much saying that Northern Hemisphere teams (excluding France)arent good enough on their own to compete with Southern Hemisphere teams...so they need to create a team with the best of 4 countries to challenge.
    C- In the professional era, the warm up games are a farce because any internationals (of the country the tour is in) are usually withdrawn and/or the warm up team has other games on and wont play their best team leading to one sided matches. Compound this with semi-pro/amateur players losing the rag with Lions players and thumping/biting /kicking the professionals and causing injury


    So can somebody please explain the draw and appeal of the Lions coz i dont see it


«134567

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    #2
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    It's been going on for longer than 50/60's years.

    So reckon it might be an idea to look up on it some, before trying to dismiss it.


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    #3
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    First of all the Lions is a money maker for all parties. That's why it (still) happens. Second of all, it's rugby tradition has been happening for over 100 years.


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    #4
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It's been going on for longer than 50/60's years.

    So reckon it might be an idea to look up on it some, before trying to dismiss it.

    Indeed. There's nothing that anyone can post that isn't revealed in 5 minutes of looking up Wikipedia.


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    #5
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    For me it's about the history and the tour ethos. It's also the highest honour for British and Irish players really.


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    #6
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Its the last 'proper' rugby tour around. The Sky TV panel and British print media might go OTT on it, but the numbers who travel for it and support it is still massive.

    Its test rugby to watch during the off-season so pretty good in that respect. What I do care about is that the players who take part learn so much from a tour with players of varying experience in a different environment and against SANZAR teams. O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Wallace etc all learned

    Personally I don't really care about the results. In fact, I would prefer Australia to win this series as they really need it (I'm a dual Irish/Australian citizen), given the woeful state of the game there and its slide down the pecking order, registering barely a beep outside of the rugby union community despite the best efforts of Fox Sports, NewsCorp and Fairfax media.


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    #7
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    daheff wrote: »
    A-Its an excuse to get a GB team (including Ireland in there)

    Why is this a bad thing?


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    #8
    subfreq
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭subfreq


    I think in the modern era it where nations are evening out (NZ not withstanding) it would be good to see the Lions go for grand slam tours against the 4 southern nation countries and play warm ups against France and Italy.


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    #9
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    daheff wrote: »
    I follow rugby....but I dont get the thing about the Lions!

    I know its been going for 50/60 years and is 'technically' seen as international grade rugby..but from my view
    A-Its an excuse to get a GB team (including Ireland in there)
    B-Its pretty much saying that Northern Hemisphere teams (excluding France)arent good enough on their own to compete with Southern Hemisphere teams...so they need to create a team with the best of 4 countries to challenge.
    C- In the professional era, the warm up games are a farce because any internationals (of the country the tour is in) are usually withdrawn and/or the warm up team has other games on and wont play their best team leading to one sided matches. Compound this with semi-pro/amateur players losing the rag with Lions players and thumping/biting /kicking the professionals and causing injury


    So can somebody please explain the draw and appeal of the Lions coz i dont see it

    I have to say I'm in total agreement with the above.


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    #10
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Second test 2009, that is all


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    #11
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Second test 2009, that is all

    Rugby Awesomeness


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    #12
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    daheff wrote: »
    I know its been going for 50/60 years and is 'technically' seen as international grade rugby..but from my view
    A-Its an excuse to get a GB team (including Ireland in there)
    B-Its pretty much saying that Northern Hemisphere teams (excluding France)arent good enough on their own to compete with Southern Hemisphere teams...so they need to create a team with the best of 4 countries to challenge.
    C- In the professional era, the warm up games are a farce because any internationals (of the country the tour is in) are usually withdrawn and/or the warm up team has other games on and wont play their best team leading to one sided matches. Compound this with semi-pro/amateur players losing the rag with Lions players and thumping/biting /kicking the professionals and causing injury

    First of all, it's been going on for 125 years or so.

    A: What's wrong with a Great Britain and Ireland team? Why do we need an excuse to have a traditional combined touring team? Rugby started in Great Britain and Ireland.
    B: Nobody sees it that way. Trust me when it started in the 1880s, there were a whole lot less teams to play.
    C: How many tours have you watched? There have been many good warm up matches, they've lost and drew a few of them. But I do agree there is a small problem there now with teams not playing their best players leading to slaughter and eventually injuries.


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    #13
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    No one can deny the lions is no longer the pinnacle-winning the world cup is now. there was no world cup in the old days of course-as an event world cup is now on a magnitude all of its own. and lets be honest-i doubt too many players would trade their grandslams and heineken medals for a lions cap. And yes Much of it is all sky hype as they dont have the six nations/world cup,so they big up the lions into probably a lot more than it actually is(and i imagine plenty of journos enjoy their trips too!) And to throw more negatives in-increasingly more of the tour games are becoming a farce.

    That said-we tend to get the same teams playing against each other all the time.in the old days you welcomed the allblacks or the springboks every 4 or 5 years or something,not every autumn virtually. so the lions does provide something different,something unique,something half way between world cups to bring a welcome distraction from the same old matches and fixtures,seeing combos together you wont again is good to watch.So yes it is a novelty act i guess now.

    Win or lose the series,does it matter? i guess thats the question.what relevance does it actually have?


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    #14
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,179 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    First of all the Lions is a money maker for all parties. That's why it (still) happens. Second of all, it's rugby tradition has been happening for over 100 years.

    TBF its massive for the players involved, these are the biggest test games a player can play. Most NZ/AUS/SA players get one shot at the lions if they are lucky. Tell them its all about the money. The test games in 09 provided some of the best rugby iv ever seen played


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    #15
    Swiwi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Swiwi


    Personally, I really enjoy the Lions, it has a touch of the "old-school" about it, and it's pretty unique - most players from SANZAR only get to play the Lions once (maximum twice) in their playing careers.

    In theory, the Lions should have recorded more victories over SANZAR than they have, but nevertheless the Lions still provide a better standard of opposition than the individual countries - eg it's hard to see Scotland beating the ABs with their current team, but I could easily see the Lions doing so.

    There is also a great atmosphere at the grounds, and tests are more often than not highly absorbing & exciting affairs.

    I wouldn't necessarily mind a "Latin" lions either - the best of France/Italy/Argentina


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    #16
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    twinytwo wrote: »
    TBF its massive for the players involved, these are the biggest test games a player can play. Most NZ/AUS/SA players get one shot at the lions if they are lucky. Tell them its all about the money. The test games in 09 provided some of the best rugby iv ever seen played


    just isnt true in my opinion.How can you compare a world cup final-the global audience,the large domestic audience,victory parades etc with a lions tour test?
    winning world cups is special and the pinnacle.Sorry to say win or lose,the lions simply isnt.No one is going to be calling these lions players beating a pretty average aussie side 'legends'. I suspect 1 or 2 irish fans,becuase ireland has a regrettably very poor world cup record,are simply over egging the lions as some sort of substitute.


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    #17
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭OldRio


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    Sorry to say win or lose,the lions simply isnt.No one is going to be calling these lions players beating a pretty average aussie side 'legends'. I suspect 1 or 2 irish fans,becuase ireland has a regrettably very poor world cup record,are simply over egging the lions as some sort of substitute.

    Not changed yer spots then?
    Couldn't resist could ya.

    Ignore button activated.


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    #18
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    twinytwo wrote: »
    TBF its massive for the players involved, these are the biggest test games a player can play. Most NZ/AUS/SA players get one shot at the lions if they are lucky. Tell them its all about the money. The test games in 09 provided some of the best rugby iv ever seen played

    Indeed. Nathan Sharpe, 11 years as a Wallaby. 116 caps. Never got to represent his country against the Lions. It's a massive deal for the opposition as much as the Lions players.


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    #19
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    OldRio wrote: »
    Not changed yer spots then?
    Couldn't resist could ya.

    Ignore button activated.

    Pathetic old rio arent you? give an opinion and you dont like it-no counter argument just pathetic dribble.

    Ask a world cup winner of any nation-world cup or lions tour-you will have your answer.
    Ask non world cup contenders they may well say something else they may win.


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    #20
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    just isnt true in my opinion.How can you compare a world cup final-the global audience,the large domestic audience,victory parades etc with a lions tour test?
    And you're entitled to your opinion. Don't watch any of it then.
    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    winning world cups is special and the pinnacle.Sorry to say win or lose,the lions simply isnt
    You're not a player so you're not really ever going to be in the position to credibly state this as fact. Again, its just your opinion.


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    #21
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    Pathetic old rio arent you? give an opinion and you dont like it-no counter argument just pathetic dribble.

    Ask a world cup winner of any nation-world cup or lions tour-you will have your answer.
    Ask non world cup contenders they may well say something else they may win.

    Everyone of your posts either contains references to Irish people being blinded by bias when it comes to the national team or negative critique of Irish rugby players, no wonder he's sick of reading your posts


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    #22
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭daheff


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    For me it's about the history and the tour ethos. It's also the highest honour for British and Irish players really.
    Is it though? As another poster said...most players would give up a lions cap for a world cup /heineken cup (probably any major domestic honour)
    Grimebox wrote: »
    Why is this a bad thing?
    I never said it was. But it does seem to be founded in the era of Ireland & UK being one union (with thanks to Dravokivich for pointing this out :P) ...so I can understand why they had a combined representative team.
    subfreq wrote: »
    I think in the modern era it where nations are evening out (NZ not withstanding) it would be good to see the Lions go for grand slam tours against the 4 southern nation countries and play warm ups against France and Italy.
    Interesting...but do France/ Italy want to play the Lions? And what about USA/Argentina (I get you are classing them as southern nation) or Samoa/Fiji?
    Swiwi wrote: »

    I wouldn't necessarily mind a "Latin" lions either - the best of France/Italy/Argentina

    Why not a SANZAR representative team then?


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    #23
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    JustinDee wrote: »
    And you're entitled to your opinion. Don't watch any of it then.


    You're not a player so you're not really ever going to be in the position to credibly state this as fact. Again, its just your opinion.

    i have never said lions tour isnt an event-it is-im watching and following like everyone else but to compare it to a world cup is simply in my opinions rubbish and is buying into the sky hype.
    what would you prefer honestly-ireland to win world cup with massive homecoming parade in dublin or sexton,o driscoll and o connell to play their part in beating a pretty mediocre aussie team in this lions series?

    martin johnson,francois pienaar,lawrence dallaglio,nick farr jones and richie mccaw have all stated winning world cup biggest thing of their rugby careers-i have read so probably many others too.although granted pienaar never played the lions.


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    #24
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    No one is going to be calling these lions players beating a pretty average aussie side 'legends'

    Hmmm...
    Guess Who? wrote:
    aussies backline is a class above lions in my opinion-the skillsets,the slick moves,handling etc- genia,o connor,beale,ioane and add in possible new guys like folau,mogg and lealiifano its some amount of talent


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    #25
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭daheff


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »

    That said-we tend to get the same teams playing against each other all the time.in the old days you welcomed the allblacks or the springboks every 4 or 5 years or something,not every autumn virtually.

    IRB have recognised this overexposure factor and have changed the way tours happen. Its back to the good ole days of playing a series of tests against countries each summer rather than playing them all the same summer (& Autumn).

    Nimrod 7 wrote: »
    First of all, it's been going on for 125 years or so.



    A: What's wrong with a Great Britain and Ireland team? Why do we need an excuse to have a traditional combined touring team? Rugby started in Great Britain and Ireland.

    B: Nobody sees it that way. Trust me when it started in the 1880s, there were a whole lot less teams to play.

    C: How many tours have you watched? There have been many good warm up matches, they've lost and drew a few of them. But I do agree there is a small problem there now with teams not playing their best players leading to slaughter and eventually injuries.

    A: dont need to have an excuse...but it seems that the Lions is one
    B: I see it this way. I know there were fewer teams back in the early days of rugby.
    C: I've watched a few...but i've never gotten into them ...never seen an affiliation to the Lions...if anything anytime i've watched them I've hoped they'd lose.


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    #26
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    i have never said lions tour isnt an event-it is-im watching and following like everyone else but to compare it to a world cup is simply in my opinions rubbish and is buying into the sky hype.
    what would you prefer honestly-ireland to win world cup with massive homecoming parade in dublin or sexton,o driscoll and o connell to play their part in beating a pretty mediocre aussie team in this lions series?
    You're not a player, and by the sound of it, don't ever get to ask a player their view on what they feel about being called up to The Lions.

    The two need not be compared. They are massive honours for a player. I don't give a stuff about the result of the series so long as our players get the most from it, as it can be the making of them.


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    #27
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Everyone of your posts either contains references to Irish people being blinded by bias when it comes to the national team or negative critique of Irish rugby players, no wonder he's sick of reading your posts


    its a well known fact this board contains many irish fans blinded by bias. Cant we post unless its from a pro irish,everything irish is great point of view?
    I hail from ulster,but now live in england,but consider myself british yes,so im obviously,although supporting ulster(and bath now too!) not going to be a pro-irish as most on here


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    #28
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    its a well known fact this board contains many irish fans blinded by bias. Cant we post unless its from a pro irish,everything irish is great point of view?
    I hail from ulster,but now live in england,but consider myself british yes,so im obviously,although supporting ulster(and bath now too!) not going to be a pro-irish as most on here
    Great. I'd suggest you go and do just that then.
    You're obviously just in this for the argument so I'll not waste any more time replying to obvious potstirs.


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    #29
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    JustinDee wrote: »
    You're not a player, and by the sound of it, don't ever get to ask a player their view on what they feel about being called up to The Lions.

    The two need not be compared. They are massive honours for a player. I don't give a stuff about the result of the series so long as our players get the most from it, as it can be the making of them.


    whats your answer-ireland to win world cup or beating aussies with lions-please answer?

    As for your quote-yes i believe the aussie backs are a class above skillwise we saw that from the reds,let alone the wallabies but if you actually looked at my other quotes i did say it wouldbe all about up front.and who wins that battle.
    aussies arent in same class as south africa or all blacks and this isnt a vintage aussie side,even though as i said,backline is classier than ours-understand when i say its mediocre -let me know?!


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    #30
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    its a well known fact this board contains many irish fans blinded by bias. Cant we post unless its from a pro irish,everything irish is great point of view?
    I hail from ulster,but now live in england,but consider myself british yes,so im obviously,although supporting ulster(and bath now too!) not going to be a pro-irish as most on here

    "A well known fact"

    I had a laugh at that one anyway


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    #31
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    martin johnson,francois pienaar,lawrence dallaglio,nick farr jones and richie mccaw have all stated winning world cup biggest thing of their rugby careers-i have read so probably many others too.although granted pienaar never played the lions.

    Wilkinson prefers the HEC.


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