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Child Care In Ireland

135678

Comments

  • #62
    mrsqueen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭mrsqueen


    I completely disagree. There are creches who have a so-called good reputation and there are a lot of bad things happening inside, but only the staff would know. I could give you a very good example: [SNIP] is supposed to be a good creche, and yet so many horrible things happen inside that the parents would never know about.


  • #63
    Spurtacus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 27 ✭Spurtacus


    Our local creche closed during the downturn, 2008 ish, we had 2 kids there fulltime.
    We had no shortage of offers from neighbours & friends looking to supplement their income.
    They had lost jobs too & needed to make ends meet, we got a lovely woman 2 doors down to take them & the kids loved it.
    Cost €250 a week vs €350 a week previously from the creche.

    We since had a third child so I took redundancy so I could mind them full-time.
    Easier now as they've started school.


  • #64
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Please don't name business you have issues with or heard rumours about.


  • #65
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Our 2 1/2 year old is in a crèche and we would not change it for the world.
    Yes, it is expensive (1025 a month) and that with a mortgage makes things a bit challenging.
    The crèche he goes to seem to have zero staff attrition.
    They each get a big hug when he arrives and leaves (he gives the hug, not me!)
    We get accident reports that we have to sign and a daily written report on what he ate, when he slept and what 'main' activity they did. They send home photos, pictures and stuff they have baked too.

    We have dropped in at random times to check up on them and they do always seem to be doing new activities and having fun.

    To be honest we would struggle if he was at home with one of us as he has lots of energy and really wants to be out and about doing new things, playing games, singing etc etc.
    As ...eh...older parents we need to dig deep in our energy reserves when we go on holiday with him and are normally more exhausted at the end of the holiday than before. Perhaps that makes us bad parents, but that is just us.


  • #66
    Red Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Red Pepper


    Creche staff are paid lousy salaries and there is usually high staff turnover. However creche owners are doing very well. I am not sure how the staff can organise and demand better salaries but it needs to happen or quality will remain low and young people will not view it as a career prospect.

    I feel sorry for parents that are forced to leave their children into creches for the working day. Its a terrible legacy of the Celtic Tiger and massive mortgage debt and I alway think these children are disadvantaged as a result. Time will tell.


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  • #67
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    Red Pepper wrote: »
    I feel sorry for parents that are forced to leave their children into creches for the working day. Its a terrible legacy of the Celtic Tiger and massive mortgage debt and I alway think these children are disadvantaged as a result. Time will tell.

    Why feel sorry for parents who send their kids to crèche?
    Most parents have a choice on where to send their kids for day care if that is what they want or need.
    Creche is just one option.
    The parents I know who send their kids to our crèche are happy with the standards and as I said earlier the staff turnover has been zero in the 18 months we are sending our wee fella there.


  • #68
    jigglypuffstuff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭jigglypuffstuff


    Currently coming to the end placement in a pre school enviornment ( a high quality setting) and I study Early Years so ill throw an opinion out there

    Its the quality of the centres thats the main issue here.

    Staff are very underpaid ( quite a well payed job in other countries) and also the importance of it is still not recognized in Ireland. Countries such as Finland and New Zealand have much better structures in place and thus produce higher PISA scores which have been shown through longitudinal studies

    Also the level of qualified workers is an issue here. in the above mentioned countries majority of staff hold degrees and even masters, but as I said its regarded much higher in other countries. Here the standard is Fetac level 5

    The white paper ''Ready to Learn'' outlines alot of issues yet many have yet to be addressed. Worth a read for anyone whos interested

    The implementation of Aistear and Siolta Standards are a step in the right direction but in the worldwide range we are still far behind.

    And just as big an issue is the transition from Pre to Primary school. The implementation of Aistear is shocking in primary schools. Im of the belief that Early Years degree holders should educate children up to 8 exclusivley as many (not all) primary teachers just dont have the same developmental knowledge of children


  • #69
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Apologies for bumping but just watching the documentary now.

    What's almost as bad as the treatment of some of these kids, is how absolutely toothless bodies like the HSE and Pobal are. When a creche can just fake diaries and attendance numbers (to gain funding) as well as have open disregard for government / HSE regulation, is it any wonder they can treat the kids the way they do?


  • #70
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Some of the stuff that they mention happens in other creches outside of Dublin. I was told this a couple of years ago by someone with direct knowledge. Stuff like reports about what kids did/eat being fabricated, children being tied down, unqualified staff, child to minder ratio and so on. When parents come, minders put on a show and it looked better than it actually work - mainly when getting a tour.


  • #71
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Almost half of all creche's are non-compliant in ensuring employees are vetted. That's a bit scary.


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  • #72
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Sully wrote: »
    Some of the stuff that they mention happens in other creches outside of Dublin. I was told this a couple of years ago by someone with direct knowledge. Stuff like reports about what kids did/eat being fabricated, children being tied down, unqualified staff, child to minder ratio and so on. When parents come, minders put on a show and it looked better than it actually work - mainly when getting a tour.

    My best friend was a creche worker, she said what you would see would break your heart. She left the industry after less than a year!


  • #73
    Vorsprung
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    Have my first on the way. Watching this is really making me think about organising a creche for him/her!!


  • #74
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    I also believe its not just staff at fault but management. Management should be enforcing high standards and watching their staff. They know full well.


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I feel so sorry for parents who have to put there children in crèches I know most don't have any choice, but even if the crèches are fantastic the sheer, cramped noisy environment that those toddlers have to endure could not be good for them. Would any adult go for a nap in a room with 10 other people.


  • #76
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    Have my first on the way. Watching this is really making me think about organising a creche for him/her!!

    At the same time, it's hard to blame the staff here.

    They work long hours, not well paid, perhaps not qualified, and it's not their fault that ratios are so low. So when they have to manage more kids than they should, of course they will be frustrated.

    There is something more systemic at play here.


  • #77
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    Have my first on the way. Watching this is really making me think about organising a creche for him/her!!

    The problem is down to management, pay and working conditions. Not all staff are like this, some are genuinely caring and nice. But when its all about making as much money and cutting costs and corners, of course such standards are going to be crap.

    I still believe its important for children to be in Creches. I personally feel its important for them to get into such an environment with other adults and kids at an early stage and not be home rared with limited interaction with other kids and adults.


  • #78
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    Have my first on the way. Watching this is really making me think about organising a creche for him/her!!

    I am pregnant and have a ECCE scheme child. It is terrifying.

    I can see why so many people qualify and train as childcare providers and care for children at their homes! I think it is time to qualify myself!


  • #79
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Sully wrote: »
    The problem is down to management, pay and working conditions. Not all staff are like this, some are genuinely caring and nice. But when its all about making as much money and cutting costs and corners, of course such standards are going to be crap.

    I still believe its important for children to be in Creches. I personally feel its important for them to get into such an environment with other adults and kids at an early stage and not be home rared with limited interaction with other kids and adults.

    Regulation seems to be very light touch too. The HSE inspections come across as nothing more than a box ticking exercise.

    Glad RTE are highlighting this aspect too. It would be too easy to do a "Ireland's worst creche's" TV3 style and focus only on the symptoms rather than the root cause.


  • #80
    dj jarvis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    watching the prime time doc is shocking - the staff slamming the kids down and shouting at them , like camp guards , not child care pros :(


  • #81
    Vorsprung
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    I'm sure that there's only a minority of creches with care as poor as seen tonight.

    There's a clear lack of regulation and follow-up to poor audits here. The free pre-school year sounds great, and I agree that it's healthy for toddlers to hang out with other toddlers. I'm sure pay is an issue too, the Scandinavians have it sussed and it doesn't come cheap either, but it is a good investment in our kids.

    Social workers have been called in to talk to parents for less than the things shown tonight.


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  • #82
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    dj jarvis wrote: »
    watching the prime time doc is shocking - the staff slamming the kids down and shouting at them , like camp guards , not child care pros :(

    Agreed, ripping their bottles from their little hands too was hard to watch.


  • #83
    The Queen of England
    Site Banned Posts: 124 ✭✭The Queen of England


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Would any adult go for a nap in a room with 10 other people.

    People who stay in hostels.


  • #84
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Frances Fitzgerald "unavailable". Absolutely gutless woman :mad:


  • #85
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Vorsprung wrote: »
    Don't doubt for a minute that there's a minority involved here.

    There's a clear lack of regulation and follow-up to poor audits here. The free pre-school year sounds great, and I agree that it's healthy for toddlers to hang out with other toddlers. I'm sure pay is an issue too, the Scandinavians have it sussed and it doesn't come cheap either, but it is a good investment in our kids.

    I refuse to believe that all these facilities are like that, and that all staff are like that, but one is one too many IMO.

    The ECCE scheme is essential, it gets children ready for school, gets them used to their peers and trains both parent and child to be able to be separated for short periods of time. It clearly is horrendously policed.


  • #86
    inmyday
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 731 ✭✭✭inmyday


    keith16 wrote: »
    Agreed, ripping their bottles from their little hands too was hard to watch.


    Is it just me.
    Or has anyone else seen worse things in the middle of tesco.

    Of course the things in the video shouldnt happen in creches. But Ive seen a lot worse.

    Prime time making the whole country panic.


  • #87
    earlyevening
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭earlyevening


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I refuse to believe that all these facilities are like that, and that all staff are like that, but one is one too many IMO.

    73% of creches failed last HSE check.

    My kid starts creche tomorrow.

    Great. :mad:


  • #88
    Vorsprung
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭Vorsprung


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    I refuse to believe that all these facilities are like that, and that all staff are like that, but one is one too many IMO.

    Agree, changed my post to clarify.


  • #89
    vforvictory
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭vforvictory


    That program was pretty scary but not as bad as I was expecting and maybe not as widespread.


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The staff are not always trained and thats a problem they did not seem to understand what children of that age can comprehend you could see that the toddlers were confused by what was being asked of them, I often think small children must sometimes think adults are mad.


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  • #91
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    When I heard a couple years ago about standards and behaviour in a local creche, I had really hoped it wasn't a widespread issue but was instead a bad egg or misinformation. It appears that it was far from misinformation as many examples raised tonight by Prime Time this evening took place in his local creche. I am disappointed that the standards are low, known to be low and nothing is done about it. I'm stunned that the HSE didn't participate in this programme, after their failings. I do fear that the problems will continue, but I really hope not.

    I can't get the image out of my head of that poor child who had a wrestling act performed upon him to the ground just because he wasn't sleeping. Suspended? Sacked and brought to court for assault. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.


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