Is rape always rape? Are men always to blame?

If she says no, it's rape. There's no wiggle room there.

However, indulge me for a second. I remember one girl I knew in school. She was an awful attention seeker; would basically do or say anything to get lads ogling her. She'd even actively encourage people to feel her up at times. (It was around this stage that I got a bit creeped out by that group of friends and moved onto another one)

Once, a lad she didn't like joined in on the action and she flipped at him. Seeing it happen, I couldn't help but feel the lad was a bit hard done by. Of course it should've never been an option for him (or others), but there was no real barrier to entry, no process for her to give or remove consent...since she appeared to pretty much let any lad have a feel (and they did...being horny teenagers, some of whom probably hadn't ever felt a breast for any prolonged period). The situation didn't escalate, quite cruelly the lad was shamed in front of the whole group and thus probably began a long struggle with the opposite sex afterwards.

The reality of the situation was that she should've drawn her own barriers. Her need for attention from the opposite sex was such that sometimes it drew the kind of attention she didn't want. That's the reality, I saw it happen.

So yes, rape is always rape, and there's no excuse for any man who crosses that line. However, I think it's also worth adding to the conversation that women can inadvertently make themselves targets for the attention of these psychopathic creeps.

That isn't to say they 'deserve it' or 'brought it on themselves'...nobody deserves to suffer a crime so grave. And I'd also fully believe that the vast, VAST majority of the time how the woman dressed or acted had nothing to do with what later happened. But there is a small amount of nuance that I think exists within this argument, and we'd be fools not to acknowledge it.

coolhull wrote: »

And why should they have to?

I'm not defending the argument you quoted, but I don't like that line of questioning on this issue. I don't think it helps.

In an ideal world, we should be able to leave our doors open for the neighbours to wander in for a chat as they please. But we are forced to lock them and put alarms on for fear of being burgled. We shouldn't have to, but alas, we do.

By that logic, it'd be a fair counterpoint to say that the fact that there are evil scum out there who would commit such crimes, that it's only logical women take the necessary precautions to ensure they don't court their attention. A dangerous rapist may deserve to be told what a horrible person they are in the street, but it also wouldn't be a wise decision for a woman to do so on her own. See what I mean?

SB2013 wrote: »

Because unfortunately there are people out there who would think nothin of taking advantage of a vulnerable person. You can call it victim blaming if you want. I call it adapting to a ****ty world.

So should we cover up and not wer a dress or skirts ? Should we muslimise our country and be uptight just to protect women from rape ? Or to protect rapists from being exposed ?

Because in my opinion nothing gives any other human being the right to have any type of sexual interactions with you without your permission ... I couldn care if you walk around with a sign on your neck saying I like to have sex ... That's not a reasonable excuse for a person to be raped !

Is there any evidence that rapists are more likely to rape a woman in a dress/skirt/loincloth as opposed to, for example, brown baggy corduroy pants?

It seems reasonable enough to suggest that women should take precautions because everyone should take precautions against everything up to a point.
Would it even make a difference though?

Pokiedots wrote: »

Sorry?
You take precautions, like using a condom, against getting pregnant because sperm in its natural state is a method of impregnating

You take precautions, like using an umbrella when it rains, to avoid getting wet because rain naturally makes things wet

You don't take precautions against getting raped because it is no ones natural state or primary function to rape another

I find the idea of someone claiming they were provoked into raping someone else or not prevented from raping someone disgusting. If you can't keep your hands to yourself stay at home or talk to a doctor. Why the F should it be anyone else responsibility to have to stop you from doing something so awful?

The only one who can prevent a rape from happening is the rapist

Faith mildly restored in humanity

This black-and-white view that so many have of rape leads to a lack of caution being taken in the long run, though, which could ultimately lead to some rapes that could've been prevented. A lot of women that I know, though, are fortunately extremely cautious about this stuff (making sure they stay in a public, well-lit place when leaving a pub, only getting in taxis with known taxi drivers, not winding up or provoking lads who are giving them the creeps etc).

People need to realise that those who urge caution AREN'T blaming the victim, aside from the few radical nutcases out there. It's never their fault that they were so terribly unlucky to encounter someone that depraved. But, please, can we also not let this whole 'people should be allowed do what they want' attitude prevail, either? It's not helpful. They should, but doing so can lead to bad things because the world isn't fair. So urging caution is only a positive.

NiallSparky wrote: »

Do you take precautions against being murdered or robbed? Do you have an alarm on your house or your car?

To protect your belongings yes you get an alarm ... But do you take precautions against rape? Why should women when men don't ? Caus it's mainly men who rape women .. And it's not the woman's fault because she can't ask a man to rape her ?? And sometimes she physically can not stop him ?? Tell me that's fair? Tell me she should have took precautions?? I dare you , because there is no precautions to take ?? And if you can come up with a few ill gladly have a read because I'd like to avoid being raped in the future if ye don't mind