Irish Rail Wages

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 12:26AM

shamwari wrote: »

The thing about the semi states is that the tenure of employment has never been as strong as the mainstream civil service to the point where the semi's can hire and fire at will. Practically all semi states - including Irish Rail have laid of a lot of people, as well as implemented pay cuts and pension levies, and faced stiff competition from rivals. I would hardly decribe someone working in these circumstances as sheltered.

Furthermore, the semistate payroll costs are met from the proceeds of their commercial activities and not from the exchequer, so there is no charge on the tax payer like the civil service.

I know a lot of fastrack staff, for example, that got the option of being laid off or not. The payoff was extremely generous. Some took it and some didn't. They didn't have to take it. Some are still within the company in a made up position standing around the automatic ticket barriers in Heuston! Some took a lumpsome and got repositioned in a different part of the country. Irish Rail certainly did not reduce its staff numbers in a private sector cost cutting fashion. Staff numbers are down, but not in a way that has benefited the company to any great degree. Irish Rail employees are definately sheltered from the recession because there is no alternative to the exact service they provide.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 12:45AM

Sheltered from the recession????? Made up positions???? Got a lump sum and then repositioned???? Generous pay offs ????

You are either making it up or have gotten the wrong end of the stick somehow.

LivelineDipso · 23-05-2013 12:49AM

No major RPA project! Have they looked at the Liffey recently?

Remember, this is the paper which had "unnamed experts" claiming the Green Line was a disaster of a train, that the Western Rail Corridor ran from Navan to Sligo and generally promoted the suicidal economic policies which left the country in ruins.

As the man above stated, all newspaper journalism is trash. However, even by this stardard, the SBP is beyond the Pale. A newspaper written by, and for drunken rugger buggers who lost their virginity in the showers at a Blackrock College away game to the same scum half they still have romantic feelings for.

cbl593h · 23-05-2013 01:26AM

LivelineDipso wrote: »

No major RPA project! Have they looked at the Liffey recently?

Remember, this is the paper which had "unnamed experts" claiming the Green Line was a disaster of a train, that the Western Rail Corridor ran from Navan to Sligo and generally promoted the suicidal economic policies which left the country in ruins.

As the man above stated, all newspaper journalism is trash. However, even by this stardard, the SBP is beyond the Pale. A newspaper written by, and for drunken rugger buggers who lost their virginity in the showers at a Blackrock College away game to the same scum half they still have romantic feelings for.

Not wrong.

cbl593h · 23-05-2013 01:26AM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know a lot of fastrack staff, for example, that got the option of being laid off or not. The payoff was extremely generous. Some took it and some didn't. They didn't have to take it. Some are still within the company in a made up position standing around the automatic ticket barriers in Heuston! Some took a lumpsome and got repositioned in a different part of the country. Irish Rail certainly did not reduce its staff numbers in a private sector cost cutting fashion. Staff numbers are down, but not in a way that has benefited the company to any great degree. Irish Rail employees are definately sheltered from the recession because there is no alternative to the exact service they provide.

Not wrong.

shamwari · 23-05-2013 11:42AM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know a lot of fastrack staff, for example, that got the option of being laid off or not. The payoff was extremely generous. Some took it and some didn't. They didn't have to take it. Some are still within the company in a made up position standing around the automatic ticket barriers in Heuston! Some took a lumpsome and got repositioned in a different part of the country. Irish Rail certainly did not reduce its staff numbers in a private sector cost cutting fashion. Staff numbers are down, but not in a way that has benefited the company to any great degree. Irish Rail employees are definately sheltered from the recession because there is no alternative to the exact service they provide.

I disagree that they are sheltered. What you haven't mentioned above are the revised working arrangements and practices that were negotiated and implemented there over the last while. A DTE I know told me that many of these changes were comparable to those that were rejected by Bus Eireann staff in the up to their recent dispute. So were talking about changes in shift patterns, allowances, annual leave entitlements, reduction in sick benefit etc. What part of this constitutes being sheltered?

Sligo Quay · 23-05-2013 04:46PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

So what you are saying is, if the Government can milk it, then so can the semi states. That makes sense alright.

I didn't sat that, you see, your miss quoting me, my main point in my post was ''LEAD BY EXAMPLE''
But we are not getting that, I don't work in the public sector or semi state, I work for a international shipping company, but thats nether here or there.
Read my post again, then read between the lines, see where we are going, I thought it was clearer than muddy water.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 04:57PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Sheltered from the recession????? Made up positions???? Got a lump sum and then repositioned???? Generous pay offs ????

You are either making it up or have gotten the wrong end of the stick somehow.

I didn't make it up and I didn't get the wrong end of the stick. I'm sorry but its fact from the horses mouth. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 04:58PM

shamwari wrote: »

What part of this constitutes being sheltered?

They still have jobs and reasonable job security.

shamwari · 23-05-2013 05:14PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

They still have jobs and reasonable job security.

So because others are suffering, they must suffer too?

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 07:07PM

shamwari wrote: »

So because others are suffering, they must suffer too?

Never said that shamwari. I just related what I knew and said they were sheltered from the recession. I believe they are and Ive told you why. The issue of whether they should suffer like others is not up to me. But they are far from high up on the suffering league table.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 07:59PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I didn't make it up and I didn't get the wrong end of the stick. I'm sorry but its fact from the horses mouth. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine.

Its not fact and dont believe what a horse might tell you.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 08:01PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

They still have jobs and reasonable job security.

So has a lot of people of this country, are you saying that they are sheltered from the recession as well?

gutteruu · 23-05-2013 08:17PM

Jaysus lads! I can't get over the expectations of the Public sector/semi-state folks anymore. Your on a different planet to the rest of the country. Increments....really? 76k+ a normal wage for an engineer? Find me one...(speaking as an engineer). Your all living back in 2005!

Mind boggles.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 08:32PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its not fact and dont believe what a horse might tell you.

Im afraid it is fact hilly bill. Can you explain why it isnt because obviously I cant name people and the circumstances of their deal.

Cheers.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 08:39PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

So has a lot of people of this country, are you saying that they are sheltered from the recession as well?

shamwari asked should CIE/IE employees suffer because others do. Now you are asking if others who have jobs outside of the state/semi states are sheltered as well. Please! Job security within the aforemention is fundamentally stronger than any aspect of the private sector.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:11PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Im afraid it is fact hilly bill. Can you explain why it isnt because obviously I cant name people and the circumstances of their deal.

Cheers.

Sorry Grandeeod but you have either been mislead or are just fishing. Either way you are wrong on all counts. You cant call anything fact when you dont have first hand knowledge of it but i do.
You cant name names or anything of their circumstance because you dont know in the first place.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:14PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

shamwari asked should CIE/IE employees suffer because others do. Now you are asking if others who have jobs outside of the state/semi states are sheltered as well. Please! Job security within the aforemention is fundamentally stronger than any aspect of the private sector.

Dont kid yourself, that may have been the case 20 years ago but its far from the case these days.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 09:21PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Sorry Grandeeod but you have either been mislead or are just fishing. Either way you are wrong on all counts. You cant call anything fact when you dont have first hand knowledge of it but i do.

You have assumed I dont have first hand knowledge of it. I dont fish. I just tell it like I see it. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
My friends are liars according to you.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 09:23PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Dont kid yourself, that may have been the case 20 years ago but its far from the case these days.

Show me the evidence please

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:27PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

You have assumed I dont have first hand knowledge of it. I dont fish. I just tell it like I see it. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
My friends are liars according to you.

How can you have first hand knowledge of it if you are only going by what someone told you?

You may want to go and have a word with them as they havent been exactly forthcoming with the truth .

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:33PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Show me the evidence please

I think a company looking to cut its number of staff by 450 is evidence enough to start off with.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 09:40PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How can you have first hand knowledge of it if you are only going by what someone told you?

You may want to go and have a word with them as they havent been exactly forthcoming with the truth .

You know something hilly bill, if it was just someone who told me, I'd see your point and understand your protest. But when these friends are people ive known a lifetime and have no reason to bull**** me, I can only say to you that we have reached a limit between us. I stand over my claims and Ive told you why. How you can discount it without any reason beyond you know better isnt really constructive.

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 09:42PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think a company looking to cut its number of staff by 450 is evidence enough to start off with.

Lets see how they do it before we get excited.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:48PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

You know something hilly bill, if it was just someone who told me, I'd see your point and understand your protest. But when these friends are people ive known a lifetime and have no reason to bull**** me, I can only say to you that we have reached a limit between us. I stand over my claims and Ive told you why. How you can discount it without any reason beyond you know better isnt really constructive.

I can discount it because im going from first hand knowledge and not what someone has told me what might be the case.
The only truth that you posted was that a redundancy package was offered but they didnt have to accept it.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 09:49PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Lets see how they do it before we get excited.

They have already done it and are now understaffed .

Grandeeod · 23-05-2013 09:57PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I can discount it because im going from first hand knowledge and not what someone has told me what might be the case.
The only truth that you posted was that a redundancy package was offered but they didnt have to accept it.

Whats your first hand knowledge? You have mentioned it enough times. Mine was staff/friends who have no reason to lie. One is working in a regional station after moving from Dublin with what is often described as a golden handshake.

shamwari · 23-05-2013 10:12PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Never said that shamwari. I just related what I knew and said they were sheltered from the recession. I believe they are and Ive told you why. The issue of whether they should suffer like others is not up to me. But they are far from high up on the suffering league table.

Irish Rail exited Fastrack over 4 years ago and I understand that around 20 positions were lost. The allegedly generous terms offered to that small group of people all that time ago could hardly be construed as evidence of an entire organisation being sheltered from recession now.

Moreover, an awful lot has changed since then. For instance, the head count has been significantly reduced, cost cuttings through overtime / allowances / sick pay changes / operational practice changes etc. have been implemented, ancillary services have been outsourced, passenger revenue has declined, subvention been cut, and diesel costs have nearly doubled. Be in no doubt that this is an organisation which is doing its best to reign in costs and control expenditure. I doubt the ability or even the will is there to shelter its staff from recession when they are battling the difficulties they are.

Directives have been issued by the government last year which defines the maximum severance payments for voluntary exits in the public sector at (I believe) statutory plus two weeks. This is hardly generous when you consider that statutory is derisory anyway. And in any event, the costs of someone exiting the company will be recouped over time and this particular fact is conveniently overlooked by our media headline writers. Instead they'd rather crow loudly over how much someone is being paid to go voluntarily rather than the value of the saving arising from it over time.

Again, and with the best will in the world, I don't accept your argument that staff in Irish Rail are being sheltered. They and in fairness their unions too know that unless they are willing to take a fair degree of pain then the cuts they would consequentially face will be far worse. They are still being paid increments where due and have not faced compulsory job losses, but this is the same situation generally across the public service.

gutteruu wrote: »

Your on a different planet to the rest of the country. Increments....really? 76k+ a normal wage for an engineer? Find me one...(speaking as an engineer).

Again I've no doubt that when we see headline figures like this, we are seeing the exception rather than the rule. Someone on that salary is in all likelihood a senior position and not a mainstream engineer per sé. Again media and wage figures. Isn't that what sparked this thread off...?

shamwari · 23-05-2013 10:17PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think a company looking to cut its number of staff by 450 is evidence enough to start off with.

Yes, they've already given a commitment last year to cut those numbers by 2016, and this is on top of numbers already cut before then.

Hilly Bill · 23-05-2013 10:21PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Whats your first hand knowledge? You have mentioned it enough times. Mine was staff/friends who have no reason to lie. One is working in a regional station after moving from Dublin with what is often described as a golden handshake.

What do you think first hand knowledge is? Its going by personal experience and not by what a friend might have told me.
Golden handshake?

You are coming out with some beauties now

Irish Rail Wages

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