Heterosexual Pride Day

awec wrote: »

I'm actually surprised that you called heterosexuality "normality", because I would disagree with that. Homosexuals are no more abnormal than a straight person. I'm not sure you meant it that way though!

I think his point is that heterosexuality is the gold standard by which everything is measured by in our society. I don't agree with this either but everyone assumes you're straight until questioned so heterosexuality is normalised in our world and anything else is far, far from it to many people still.

I get your point that you don't see being straight as the one "normal" standard, and rightly so, but not everyone thinks as progressively as you do. So until they do, gay pride parades will go ahead to show gay people are present and their rights do matter.

Until being gay or anything other than heterosexuality is seen as equally normal then they'll still go ahead until one day, hopefully soon enough, when they won't be needed anymore -that's the idea of them, it's not a permanent arrangement forever.

awec wrote: »

Are gay people really that different? So they like the same sex, so what? Does realising you are gay automatically mean that you'll suddenly start to speak differently or act all camp?

No, IMO. I think for the vast, vast majority of people you couldn't tell a gay person from a straight person unless they told you so.

I don't view it as a forced normalisation at all. I don't think there is anything to force.

When I said gay pride has become a parody of itself, I am saying that it seems it has now become more of a "Overly Camp Pride" event than anything.

But you're still forgetting that by a big way the majority of people are not so "so what" when it comes to the subject of homosexuality, and don't just see it as any different from being straight. It can be something they're uneasy with, or even hostile against.

And even with Mardi Gras and how outrageous they are (for serious lack of a better word) you could see that the vast majority of straight people don't act that flamboyantly either, wouldn't you agree? But that what makes it interesting and a bit of fun.

You could argue that gay pride isn't a proper representation of how the majority of gay people are, and you'd be right, but there still are gay people that are camp and more flamboyant and this gives them a way to let loose. You think gay people get abuse, those lads get abuse even from a huge amount of other gay lads.
If you had a heap of lads just like me how piss poor and boring would that parade be? There'd be more life in a soviet march ffs :P

I used to be against gay pride too. Probably more than any straight person because I hated how over the top and flamboyant it was and I hated that that was the signal it was sending out to straight people because I wanted to be seen as normal and I felt that wasn't helping. But after getting to understand myself and the parade a bit better I can see that that was a very simplistic way of looking at it. It may seem like a massive joke and a mash up of stereotypes but it's serving its purpose that any gay person who isn't the stereotype of normal, I'm lucky that I am even if I'm gay, that it's alright and there's even a big parade to show it's alright and to embrace that side of you instead of confirming to what you feel is normal.

The parade does also go to keep the public aware that gay people are still around and we do have less rights, because if we didn't speak up nobody would care or do anything.

There's also a heap of "normal" everyday gay people that join in, they just get lost in the flamboyance of it all. It's not all just a big stream of stereotypes, and as I said before it makes it more entertaining rather than a dull as feck parade if the likes of me were to dominate it.

I still don't think gay pride is for me but I don't see a problem with it and don't see it as counter productive anymore. They're doing no harm and only trying to do good so let them off.

You mightn't think it but there is a message and a direction behind it and although I wouldn't object to your wanting of a straight parade I wouldn't think of any reason or message behind it. What would it promote and achieve?

awec wrote: »

Good post 1ZRed, I'm just snipping the rest to keep the page short :P

On the bit I've left, does this not kind of defeat the purpose though? Shouldn't the message and direction be blatantly obvious?

I get what you mean and I'd agree, but it's more of how you choose to convey the message that decides whether it's effective nor not.

You could go two routes, the way it is now or a picketed march. The way it is now is more accessible, approachable and fun, whereas the alternative could just be about protesting our rights and it would have an air of harshness to it.
I don't think that's the best way to go about things because it makes us seem more hostile and stern in our demands, and every year it would have negative connotations and a reputation for "those gays marching again" which I don't think would be as effective long-term as they way it's done now -eventhough there's annual criticism as it is.

The message might not be so clear, I'll agree, but when faced with the alternative I think it's a lot better, eventhough I think a mixture of both would be most effective, but that's just not going to happen. A parade will always be flamboyant and with the goal of being fun, there's no getting around that. Paddy's day and Mardi Gras are an example of that too (despite being more "normal" parades if you get me) the alternative is a march and many don't want that and wouldn't see it as welcoming and as inclusive. It's near impossible to strike a balance between the two.

The way it's done now takes the edge off and makes it approachable to both the public and other gay people. It's not going to be seen as perfect either way, and maybe even not welcomed in either scenario if not purely for the fact that it is something "gay" which many people don't like on it's own anyway.


There's far more tactics going on as well behind it all with a "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" mentality behind it too, imo.

I've adapted the same mindset too even when explaining this because I know if went at you with facts trying to prove you wrong off the bat in a harsh and to-the-point way I wouldn't achieve very much at all, if anything you'd probably just hold onto your views even more so in defence (wouldn't blame you either, I'd be the same way), but if I took the edge off and tried to see your side of it and then try and accommodate that then I think I can actually get through to you more effectively and maybe get you to see where I'm coming from.

It's kind of the same with the prade; rather than being upfront and confrontational with a march you could be less invasive in blatantly pushing your ideas and get around people that way instead of causing them to be more defensive.

In a very roundabout way what I'm trying to say is that being more gentle with a touchy subject like gay rights is what gets more done these days in my view. Angrily protesting or even just marching for rights isn't going to get much done in comparison even if the message isn't crystal clear, plus you won't get that whole "inclusive and accommodating atmosphere" going on there - that's as much for individual gay people struggling for a base and acceptance as it is for the group as a whole trying to find the same thing in the public eye as well.

Either way it's not perfect but the way it's done now I still see it as having more benefits, though I fully acknowledge how the message can become more distorted, if not seeming pointless or counter productive initially.

As I said gay pride isn't my thing so I'm reletively neutral on the subject but that's the way I see it, you could still see it differently to me

Deleted User wrote: »

You know its going to get to the stage were gay people have absolutely nothing to complain about that they will have to make something up.

No, when we reach that point we won't complain about anything and we'll be like any other straight person. There'll be no need. That's the ultimate goal of all this.