Switching to Linux full time

azzeretti · 11-05-2013 1:21pm

human 19 wrote: »

It ran much better that way for me as opposed to a VM. Sound and video can stutter in a lot of VMs .Perfect with the Ubuntu "app" installed directly in Linux

Depends on what virtualisation you are using and method to connect to the VM. VNC, RDP, NX are all pretty rubbish for streaming video and sound. If I was the OP I would throw Ubuntu 13.04 on there (if he likes Ubunutu ). 13.04 has KVM compiled with Spice support. This knocks the boll!x off any remote desktop protocol at the moment (although RemoteFX is getting some good press). Create your Windows 8 VM, enable a Spice channel, compile the Guest drivers, install them and you are now running a VM that will be indistinguishable, when run full screen via a Ubuntu spice client, from a physical box. You will be able to run full HD in the VM and there should be little or no resource difference from running it on a pys box.

Spice is quality, I have run HD video over WAN links to KVM boxes in remote sites and, as long as the HW the spice client is running on is reasonable, the results are pretty good.

To be honest, I can't say I have done this with Windows 8 and there may be some issues with the guest drivers but I'd imagine that RemoteFX should be as good without the hassle.

KVM can be a little tricky if you're not used to it but there is a GUI called virt-manager is Ubuntu's packages which should sort you out

Marsden · 11-05-2013 1:48pm

azzeretti wrote: »

If I was the OP I would throw Ubuntu 13.04 on there (if he likes Ubunutu ).

Have upgraded to 13.04 but I'm having trouble connecting me Galaxy S3. Looked online for solution and found one that worked for about 3 minutes. I've airdroid downloaded but it's not the same. Any of you people know a solution or would I be better to join an Ubuntu forum.

syklops · 11-05-2013 3:29pm

Marsden wrote: »

Have upgraded to 13.04 but I'm having trouble connecting me Galaxy S3. Looked online for solution and found one that worked for about 3 minutes. I've airdroid downloaded but it's not the same. Any of you people know a solution or would I be better to join an Ubuntu forum.

Sorry what are you trying to do?

Edit: And Id advise against joining a Ubuntu forum.

Marsden · 11-05-2013 4:51pm

syklops wrote: »

Sorry what are you trying to do?

Edit: And Id advise against joining a Ubuntu forum.

Sorry pal its working again, I was getting error messages when I connected my phone to Ubuntu and I couldn't transfer files. I found a fix for it yesterday and it only worked for about half an hour but its working again now. Out of curiosity, why would you advise against Ubuntu forums. I read good things about the support on them.

syklops · 11-05-2013 5:57pm

Marsden wrote: »

Sorry pal its working again, I was getting error messages when I connected my phone to Ubuntu and I couldn't transfer files. I found a fix for it yesterday and it only worked for about half an hour but its working again now. Out of curiosity, why would you advise against Ubuntu forums. I read good things about the support on them.

While you can get some good advice on the ubuntu forums, as a result of Ubuntu being the newbie distro, the quality of the support can vary a great deal. I've seen advice like "have you tried re-installing?" for minor things. Thats like saying a second mass to me.

Johnboy1951 · 11-05-2013 8:51pm

excollier wrote: »

Fair enough, my error. Pity, although I have no use for Netflix so that's ok, but it would be nice to see a native linux option soon, ramp up the argument for linux.

I don't think it will happen.
MS for a time gave *some* support to the Moonlight project, which was essentially 'Silverlight for Linux'.

It was never satisfactory as it was always behind by at least one version, and was glitchy to say the least.

It has since died.

In addition this Netflix "app" requires Mono ..... which I will not let near my PC

So, as long as Netflix use this proprietary format I do not expect it to be available natively in Linux, as I do not believe MS have any intention of providing it.

To make matters worse ...... Eircom have also switched to Silverlight for their Setanta Sports offering.
They did this quite recently ...... and it is my belief they did it deliberately to prevent Linux users from accessing the content.
It was difficult to access prior to the change ..... but possible ..... but there is no way to do so now.

If I ever have the chance to leave Eircom I will do so very quickly.
I have refused upgrades etc for a couple of years now, as I will not be drawn into another contract with them.

Scruffles · 11-05-2013 11:06pm

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

PropJoe10 · 11-05-2013 11:51pm

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

Installing Desura now, thanks for the tip

Steam for Linux will do wonders for native gaming on Linux platforms if they stick with it. More and more games are becoming available - the Half Life catalogue is available now through the Steam store. Good times

syklops · 11-05-2013 11:55pm

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

I didnt use desura. Im on fedora and was able to do a quick yum install steam, after adding a 3rd party repo. I've spent more on computer games to play natively on Linux than in the previous 10 years. Spent a nice hour playing Counter strike today. Can't wait to put together a decent rig.

PropJoe10 · 12-05-2013 8:59pm

Just installed Half Life 2 on my Linux system, runs pretty nicely on Xubuntu 12.04 considering its a beta at the moment. Great to play this game again

Johnboy1951 · 12-05-2013 11:26pm

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

Not really true.

Quite a lot of people depend on Windows-only apps with no suitable alternative in Linux.

Even as good as Gimp is, it is not as good as Photoshop in some areas, and add to that the time and learning invested ..... it is no wonder people do not really want to start learning how best to use something different, and if they do it will take time to come up to speed.

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

It is certainly better than sticking solely with Windows IMO

syklops · 12-05-2013 11:37pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not really true.

Quite a lot of people depend on Windows-only apps with no suitable alternative in Linux.

Even as good as Gimp is, it is not as good as Photoshop in some areas, and add to that the time and learning invested ..... it is no wonder people do not really want to start learning how best to use something different, and if they do it will take time to come up to speed.

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

It is certainly better than sticking solely with Windows IMO

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Johnboy1951 · 12-05-2013 11:46pm

syklops wrote: »

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Where did you read that?

PropJoe10 · 12-05-2013 11:48pm

syklops wrote: »

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Hes saying older hardware may not be capable of running virtual machines, I think.

syklops · 12-05-2013 11:55pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Where did you read that?

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

I think I understand. You mean, alot of people use "computers" which are old and not capable of running VMs.

Johnboy1951 · 13-05-2013 11:23am

syklops wrote: »

I think I understand. You mean, alot of people use "computers" which are old and not capable of running VMs.

They don't necessarily have to be incapable or old ...... just not have sufficient resources to do so comfotably.

It is possible to start a VM on a lot of those, but using it (and the 'host' at the same time) would not be an experience to be cherished.

The 'guest' operating system can take a lot of resources, and shares those available in the PC, with the 'host' operating system.

You are effectively running two operating systems at the same time, using the resources available in the PC.

If the PC has sufficient resources for one operating system, but not a lot left over, then something has to suffer.

Tar.Aldarion · 13-05-2013 11:26am

WOuld be a pain in teh ass to set up a vm with all my steam games and my nvidia 3d vision etc? If you don't have something like that to do, VM it up.

syklops · 13-05-2013 11:43am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

WOuld be a pain in teh ass to set up a vm with all my steam games and my nvidia 3d vision etc? If you don't have something like that to do, VM it up.

Some of those steam games might run natively.

Tar.Aldarion · 13-05-2013 2:07pm

Yeah a couple do all right, amnesia and the like, over 100 don't

Hopefully we'll see more being supported.

Tom Dunne · 14-05-2013 6:16am

Is it time for me to jump in and remind everyone of my experiences of switching to Linux?

As with most things in life, context is king. As I discovered last year, using Linux in a pure Windows networked environment simply does not work. Sure, I got printers working (with some issues), I got read-only access to Sharepoint (like it or not, I have to use it), but I don't care what anyone says, the biggest issue for me was compatibility with Office Documents. I corrupted more Word/Excel documents over the course of three months than I have in the last 20 years using native apps.

For techie things like system admin and development, Linux worked flawlessly. For basic office work, including generating a vast range of documents, it just doesn't cut the mustard. And switching the 2,500 people in my organisation over to Open Office is never going to happen.

In the end, I just gave up. It simply wasn't worth the heartache.

Horses for courses, really.

(I should point out that I am far from anti-Linux. I have been using Linux since the 90's. When most of you were probably starting school.

)

Tar.Aldarion · 14-05-2013 8:51am

But you can just use office in Linux in a vm? It's certainly not for everybody and won't be for a long time

excollier · 14-05-2013 8:56am

Thanks for that, Tom Dunne, it's a pity that Microsoft won't allow linux to work properly in the commercial office environment. The problem lies squarely with them. As you point out it would take everyone to move to Open / Libre Office for it to work.
You would think that in these hard times, new start offices would go with linux to save money, because it works just as well as Windows, but Microsoft's strangle hold on the pre-installed os market is relentless, unfortunately, so compatibility will always be a problem.
I only came to linux a few months ago after a 20+ year headache with various Windows releases. And I only actually learned anything about computers in those few short months.
And by the way, I had long since left school by the time the 90's arrived.
(another Pink Floyd fan!!)

syklops · 14-05-2013 10:41am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

But you can just use office in Linux in a vm? It's certainly not for everybody and won't be for a long time

Thats what I do. A VM for Office(and for the F%$king stupid timesheet system that doesn't like Firefox on Linux), and my Host OS for everything else. I am still more productive on Linux than I would be on Windows.

Johnboy1951 · 14-05-2013 11:30am

excollier wrote: »

Thanks for that, Tom Dunne, it's a pity that Microsoft won't allow linux to work properly in the commercial office environment. The problem lies squarely with them. As you point out it would take everyone to move to Open / Libre Office for it to work.

It seems to point to the MS bs being effective when people blame other than MS for an alternative's inability to deal with the MS proprietary formats.

Thankfully, although slow, there is a movement towards open standards for information storage and sharing.

And by the way, I had long since left school by the time the 90's arrived.

You and many more of us

Tom Dunne · 14-05-2013 2:37pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

But you can just use office in Linux in a vm? It's certainly not for everybody and won't be for a long time

Yeah, I can, but it's the whole Sharepoint/printing thing that I had troubles with.

Lovely Bloke · 16-05-2013 9:01am

I dual boot 2 machines in my house - my own main laptop and a laptop under the TV used as a kind of smart hub - I use Mint almost exclusively on the smart hub one, apart from when I want to watch Sky, which is a pain. I use XP for that.

I boot automatically into Mint on my own laptop, but still retain Win7 as my main personal media player is a Zune, which also needs Windows.

However, I think I'm finally making some inroads with my wife, twice this week she has extolled the virtues of Linux TO me, which made me smile to myself.

She does a bit of crafting, and has been using some trial or pared back version of Word on her netbook for designs or printing off stuff, she took my laptop during the week and headed up to do some work. She told me "Linux is so much easier and better" - good!

Then we were talking about watching something on TV via the computer, and she made sure to tell me to "Use Linux for that"

I need to totally wean her to Linux for her own netbook, but it's not far off I think.

A Primal Nut · 20-05-2013 1:03am

Similar story here. Bought the girlfriend an Asus Eee PC for her birthday a while ago. It's only got 1GB Ram but we both thought it would be grand for what she uses it for - browsing, word processing,youtube, instant messenging. Simply put, even Windows 7 Starter was too heavy. Slow boot/shutdown times, crashes during youtube and just slow in general. Don't know if there is a virus or what but it was sometimes at upto 80% RAM usage before even opening a single application on top of what runs in the background (I'd already tried reducing startup programmes).

In the end I installed Lubuntu for her a week ago. It's a lot faster, starts quicker and shuts down almost instantly, no crashes yet; so its definitely a success. No need for Wine either - the only application she wanted but couldn't get was Yahoo Messenger (which apparently doesn't work with Wine) but Pidgin does the job. RAM usage after booting is about 20%. One thing I notice is even at 80-90% RAM usage there is no noticeable difference in performance.

I'm not a big anti-Microsoft guy or anything but for small-memory netbooks and the like, Linux is the only job. Dual-booting for now, but she hasn't used Windows since so will probably remove it if decides she doesn't need it anymore.

syklops · 20-05-2013 9:50am

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I dual boot 2 machines in my house - my own main laptop and a laptop under the TV used as a kind of smart hub - I use Mint almost exclusively on the smart hub one, apart from when I want to watch Sky, which is a pain. I use XP for that.

Why would you not use a VM for Sky?

Lovely Bloke · 20-05-2013 11:34am

syklops wrote: »

Why would you not use a VM for Sky?

Honestly, pure laziness and avoidance of hassle. I KNOW it works every time in Windows, I just log into the website and watch the football, no fluting around with VM or Wine or whatever else.

I just wish it worked natively in Linux, I mean there's no reason it shouldn't right? There is a SkyGo app for Android.

syklops · 20-05-2013 12:06pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Honestly, pure laziness and avoidance of hassle. I KNOW it works every time in Windows, I just log into the website and watch the football, no fluting around with VM or Wine or whatever else.

I just wish it worked natively in Linux, I mean there's no reason it shouldn't right? There is a SkyGo app for Android.

With something like virtualbox, it will take 15 minutes to set up and you never need to reboot again. Speaking of avoiding of hassle, surely rebooting everytime you want to watch Sky is the definition of hassle.

Is it silverlight thats the problem?

Switching to Linux full time

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