Switching to Linux full time

Marsden

I've an old laptop with Ubuntu on it but it just sits at home being used for Facebook and the likes. My newer laptop is used for college (computer science) and has windows 8. I've dabbled with the idea of putting the Ubuntu onto this too as the sole OS. The only thing stopping me is the thought that I might come across something I want that will only run in windows ie Borland or a super meat boy. Will wine run anything I'd be stuck on, would I have any regrets if I swap over?

Khannie

If you're at that point then take the plunge. Once you have taken the plunge you'll find alternatives or in a very rare scenario you'll use a VM. I took the plunge a long time ago and I am *so glad* that I did.

syklops

Marsden wrote: »

I've an old laptop with Ubuntu on it but it just sits at home being used for Facebook and the likes. My newer laptop is used for college (computer science) and has windows 8. I've dabbled with the idea of putting the Ubuntu onto this too as the sole OS. The only thing stopping me is the thought that I might come across something I want that will only run in windows ie Borland or a super meat boy. Will wine run anything I'd be stuck on, would I have any regrets if I swap over?

Take the plunge. There is nothing stopping you running a Windows 8 VM and doing whatever you need to on that. I have a VM for Office.

Your life will become easier, and you will get more done in Linux, plus you will learn it better than if you just dabble.

rebeve

Marsden wrote: »

I've an old laptop with Ubuntu on it but it just sits at home being used for Facebook and the likes. My newer laptop is used for college (computer science) and has windows 8. I've dabbled with the idea of putting the Ubuntu onto this too as the sole OS. The only thing stopping me is the thought that I might come across something I want that will only run in windows ie Borland or a super meat boy. Will wine run anything I'd be stuck on, would I have any regrets if I swap over?

You could also dual boot and know that you have the option to boot into windows .

You will very quickly forget about windows .

Marsden

rebeve wrote: »

You could also dual boot and know that you have the option to boot into windows .

You will very quickly forget about windows .

I decided to go with this so I have me little safety net.

henryporter

VM would be much better, having to reboot to another OS is a right pain in the bum, plus for all you would end up using Windows for it would be a waste of space.

PropJoe10

As previous posters said, I'd advise you to install Win8 as a virtual machine in Linux, if you want to have access to Windows. Dual booting is messy and annoying. You can use the likes of https://www.virtualbox.org/ to set up different operating systems as virtual machines i.e. run an OS within an OS. Its free and very easy to use.

PS: If you like Linux and have tried Ubuntu, try out Xubuntu - basically Ubuntu with the XFCE desktop environment. I find it faster and easier to use than the standard Ubuntu Unity desktop environment.

humbert

I would, and do, dual boot. I don't find it messy or annoying. VMs are fine but personally I always find them a little sluggish by comparison.

excollier

Dual boot - that way you get the best out of both set ups, but isn't it problematic with Win 8? UEFI, secure boot and all that?

Khannie

Dual boot is a pain in the jacksy IMO. A properly configured VM should only have about a 5-10% hit in performance versus "bare metal" (God I hate that phrase). Besides, you're only going to want the VM for probably 1 or 2 applications. I genuinely cannot understand dual booting these days.

syklops

Khannie wrote: »

Dual boot is a pain in the jacksy IMO. A properly configured VM should only have about a 5-10% hit in performance versus "bare metal" (God I hate that phrase). Besides, you're only going to want the VM for probably 1 or 2 applications. I genuinely cannot understand dual booting these days.

Agreed. If you dual boot, you will really only use linux half the time, because you will boot into windows to use what ever program it is you cant live with out, but you wont boot back into linux to browse or do whatever you want to do, you will just stay in Windows. You will have to make the conscious decision to use Linux to get the value out of it. But at the end of the day its your decision. Nowadays, I use Linux for everything with the exception of work documents which I use office for on an XP VM.

rebeve

excollier wrote: »

Dual boot - that way you get the best out of both set ups, but isn't it problematic with Win 8? UEFI, secure boot and all that?

Turn off secure boot and the job is oxo .It was much easier than I was led

to believe .I would prefer to use a Ouija board than win 8, a complete bucket

of you know what IMHO .

demanufactured

Can you run games with wine in Linux?

excollier

I have two dual boot computers, one with Win Vista, and I cannot see any reason to boot into Vista other than the occasional use of satellite box firmware/channel list updates, which are very rare. If they had linux support, Vista and Microsoft would be gone immediately.

PropJoe10

demanufactured wrote: »

Can you run games with wine in Linux?

Yep you can, there's a front-end for Wine called PlayOnLinux that makes it pretty easy to do. They may not run at 100% capacity though, especially graphics-wise. It really depends on the game you want to play.

Marsden

Thanks for the advice. I have it dual booted since yesterday, I'm not too worried about losing the space as its just me college laptop and I wouldn't really use it up. I had thought that there would be a bigger loss in operating speed that 5-10% with a vm. Anyway I assume I won't lose anything if I decide after a while to remove win 8 from the drive, its on a separate partition.

PropJoe10

Marsden wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I have it dual booted since yesterday, I'm not too worried about losing the space as its just me college laptop and I wouldn't really use it up. I had thought that there would be a bigger loss in operating speed that 5-10% with a vm. Anyway I assume I won't lose anything if I decide after a while to remove win 8 from the drive, its on a separate partition.

Nah you wont lose anything but the dual boot bootloader can become a bit messy if you decide to uninstall Windows 8. Thats the problem with dual booting, I always had bootloader problems when I tried it. VM is definitely the way to go - I'm running Xubuntu on this laptop I'm using now, with an XP VM for things like Netflix and Sky Go.

Marsden

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Nah you wont lose anything but the dual boot bootloader can become a bit messy if you decide to uninstall Windows 8. Thats the problem with dual booting, I always had bootloader problems when I tried it. VM is definitely the way to go - I'm running Xubuntu on this laptop I'm using now, with an XP VM for things like Netflix and Sky Go.

Are programs run through VM windowed. Can you watch your netflix full screen?

Khannie

If you can watch if fullscreen in windows, you can watch it fullscreen in the VM.

PropJoe10

Marsden wrote: »

Are programs run through VM windowed. Can you watch your netflix full screen?

You can actually maximise the VM to run the full size of your monitor. You install a guest additions package into the OS running in the VM, which will allow you to maximise to the full monitor size. You can then watch whatever you like as if the VM is your main OS.

syklops

demanufactured wrote: »

Can you run games with wine in Linux?

You can run most games with wine, and steam is now on Linux and many of their games run natively.

sulc84

Can someone post tutorial how to use linux and win together on PC ? Is it posible without conflicts ?

excollier

Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPUX-0j5WCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02jP2Bf-DPU

No conflicts.

PropJoe10

excollier wrote: »

Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPUX-0j5WCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02jP2Bf-DPU

No conflicts.

Nice, aside from the fact it shows Linux Mint Just never liked Mint for some reason. There's no conflicts at all with running Windows and Linux btw. If you dont fancy the dual boot in the videos above, install a Linux distro in a virtual machine using VirtualBox to try it out first.

excollier

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Nice, aside from the fact it shows Linux Mint Just never liked Mint for some reason. There's no conflicts at all with running Windows and Linux btw. If you dont fancy the dual boot in the videos above, install a Linux distro in a virtual machine using VirtualBox to try it out first.

Just used Mint as an example, although I use it myself, the principle is similar for a lot of distros. Many an installer follows a similar process.

Take a look here, main vid and several others on same page:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgIpV6zCZZA

Johnboy1951

I believe a dual boot as an initial set up is to be recommended.

That does not mean you cannot use a VM in Linux ...... but it does provide a 'safety net' as said.

That safety net is more for 'ease of mind' than serving any useful purpose.

After some time ...... when you are sure you can do everything you need in Linux or the VM, you can wipe the Win install (format the partition/s) and make use of the space freed for data/backup/storage/whatever.

I do not use any Win and only have a couple of Win VMs which I very rarely open ..... and then most likely to try some software I heard about. I never do any 'work' in the VM.

Good luck on your journey in Linux

human 19

Netflix is avialable on Ubuntu now, or any Ubuntu fork. Thia is what led me to delete my windows partition after I hadnt used it at all in 6 months.
It ran much better that way for me as opposed to a VM. Sound and video can stutter in a lot of VMs .Perfect with the Ubuntu "app" installed directly in Linux

Johnboy1951

That Ubuntu 'app' is a Wine set up, is it not?

excollier

No, it's not. It runs directly from Ubuntu (and others) Windows is becoming less relevant all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfte5su5DIA

Johnboy1951

excollier wrote: »

No, it's not. It runs directly from Ubuntu (and others) Windows is becoming less relevant all the time.

Are you sure?

How could they possibly manage to use Silverlight without the likes of Wine?

Netflix uses Silverlight.
There is no Silverlight for Linux.
Moonlight for Linux is long gone.

Maybe you could explain how this problem can be overcome without something like Wine or a VM?

EDIT: Went searching for info .......

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nativeish-netflix

The folks over at http://www.iheartubuntu.com recently put up a challenge to the Linux community to get Netflix to work natively under our beloved OS. Thankfully, Erich Hoover stepped up to the challenge and patched the Wine Project in a way to allow Firefox/Silverlight to be installed and actually work with Netflix's DRM'd Silverlight!

So yes it is using Wine.

excollier

Fair enough, my error. Pity, although I have no use for Netflix so that's ok, but it would be nice to see a native linux option soon, ramp up the argument for linux.

azzeretti

human 19 wrote: »

It ran much better that way for me as opposed to a VM. Sound and video can stutter in a lot of VMs .Perfect with the Ubuntu "app" installed directly in Linux

Depends on what virtualisation you are using and method to connect to the VM. VNC, RDP, NX are all pretty rubbish for streaming video and sound. If I was the OP I would throw Ubuntu 13.04 on there (if he likes Ubunutu ). 13.04 has KVM compiled with Spice support. This knocks the boll!x off any remote desktop protocol at the moment (although RemoteFX is getting some good press). Create your Windows 8 VM, enable a Spice channel, compile the Guest drivers, install them and you are now running a VM that will be indistinguishable, when run full screen via a Ubuntu spice client, from a physical box. You will be able to run full HD in the VM and there should be little or no resource difference from running it on a pys box.

Spice is quality, I have run HD video over WAN links to KVM boxes in remote sites and, as long as the HW the spice client is running on is reasonable, the results are pretty good.

To be honest, I can't say I have done this with Windows 8 and there may be some issues with the guest drivers but I'd imagine that RemoteFX should be as good without the hassle.

KVM can be a little tricky if you're not used to it but there is a GUI called virt-manager is Ubuntu's packages which should sort you out

Marsden

azzeretti wrote: »

If I was the OP I would throw Ubuntu 13.04 on there (if he likes Ubunutu ).

Have upgraded to 13.04 but I'm having trouble connecting me Galaxy S3. Looked online for solution and found one that worked for about 3 minutes. I've airdroid downloaded but it's not the same. Any of you people know a solution or would I be better to join an Ubuntu forum.

syklops

Marsden wrote: »

Have upgraded to 13.04 but I'm having trouble connecting me Galaxy S3. Looked online for solution and found one that worked for about 3 minutes. I've airdroid downloaded but it's not the same. Any of you people know a solution or would I be better to join an Ubuntu forum.

Sorry what are you trying to do?

Edit: And Id advise against joining a Ubuntu forum.

Marsden

syklops wrote: »

Sorry what are you trying to do?

Edit: And Id advise against joining a Ubuntu forum.

Sorry pal its working again, I was getting error messages when I connected my phone to Ubuntu and I couldn't transfer files. I found a fix for it yesterday and it only worked for about half an hour but its working again now. Out of curiosity, why would you advise against Ubuntu forums. I read good things about the support on them.

syklops

Marsden wrote: »

Sorry pal its working again, I was getting error messages when I connected my phone to Ubuntu and I couldn't transfer files. I found a fix for it yesterday and it only worked for about half an hour but its working again now. Out of curiosity, why would you advise against Ubuntu forums. I read good things about the support on them.

While you can get some good advice on the ubuntu forums, as a result of Ubuntu being the newbie distro, the quality of the support can vary a great deal. I've seen advice like "have you tried re-installing?" for minor things. Thats like saying a second mass to me.

Johnboy1951

excollier wrote: »

Fair enough, my error. Pity, although I have no use for Netflix so that's ok, but it would be nice to see a native linux option soon, ramp up the argument for linux.

I don't think it will happen.
MS for a time gave *some* support to the Moonlight project, which was essentially 'Silverlight for Linux'.

It was never satisfactory as it was always behind by at least one version, and was glitchy to say the least.

It has since died.

In addition this Netflix "app" requires Mono ..... which I will not let near my PC

So, as long as Netflix use this proprietary format I do not expect it to be available natively in Linux, as I do not believe MS have any intention of providing it.

To make matters worse ...... Eircom have also switched to Silverlight for their Setanta Sports offering.
They did this quite recently ...... and it is my belief they did it deliberately to prevent Linux users from accessing the content.
It was difficult to access prior to the change ..... but possible ..... but there is no way to do so now.

If I ever have the chance to leave Eircom I will do so very quickly.
I have refused upgrades etc for a couple of years now, as I will not be drawn into another contract with them.

Scruffles

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

PropJoe10

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

Installing Desura now, thanks for the tip Steam for Linux will do wonders for native gaming on Linux platforms if they stick with it. More and more games are becoming available - the Half Life catalogue is available now through the Steam store. Good times

syklops

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

linux is getting increasingly awesome in the native gaming department to; we have desura which is a easy to install steam type alternative for linux;woud recommend it to every linux user including newbies as it requires no command line work to install.

are able to download any free game or mod with it and theres also plenty of the ones that are able to buy as well,not sure how long its been out but have only just found it-
http://www.desura.com
woud particulary recommend these free block busters incase theres someone who has never heard of them before; red eclipse, assault cube [mega amazing FPS] ,smokin guns,nexuiz classic, sauerbraten,alien arena,open arena,urban territory, tremulous... have played some of those for years and they are incredible.

have installed only linux now for some years,and never felt a need for windows.
had only just formated and instaled a new distro this week; backbox linux a hacker OS which is based on ubuntu so is a lot more acessible to use.

screw windows kick it to the kerb,its what the pyschology world called co dependancy.:p

I didnt use desura. Im on fedora and was able to do a quick yum install steam, after adding a 3rd party repo. I've spent more on computer games to play natively on Linux than in the previous 10 years. Spent a nice hour playing Counter strike today. Can't wait to put together a decent rig.

PropJoe10

Just installed Half Life 2 on my Linux system, runs pretty nicely on Xubuntu 12.04 considering its a beta at the moment. Great to play this game again

Johnboy1951

Scruffles wrote: »

dual booting is history, there is no need to be dependant on windows anymore unless are a hardcore PC gamer,as everything else has a native alternative.

Not really true.

Quite a lot of people depend on Windows-only apps with no suitable alternative in Linux.

Even as good as Gimp is, it is not as good as Photoshop in some areas, and add to that the time and learning invested ..... it is no wonder people do not really want to start learning how best to use something different, and if they do it will take time to come up to speed.

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

It is certainly better than sticking solely with Windows IMO

syklops

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not really true.

Quite a lot of people depend on Windows-only apps with no suitable alternative in Linux.

Even as good as Gimp is, it is not as good as Photoshop in some areas, and add to that the time and learning invested ..... it is no wonder people do not really want to start learning how best to use something different, and if they do it will take time to come up to speed.

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

It is certainly better than sticking solely with Windows IMO

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Johnboy1951

syklops wrote: »

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Where did you read that?

PropJoe10

syklops wrote: »

Since when are PCs not capable of virtualisation?

Hes saying older hardware may not be capable of running virtual machines, I think.

syklops

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Where did you read that?

Also a lot of people use PCs which are not capable of comfortably running VMs due to hardware considerations, and so the best alternative is dual boot.

I think I understand. You mean, alot of people use "computers" which are old and not capable of running VMs.

Johnboy1951

syklops wrote: »

I think I understand. You mean, alot of people use "computers" which are old and not capable of running VMs.

They don't necessarily have to be incapable or old ...... just not have sufficient resources to do so comfotably.

It is possible to start a VM on a lot of those, but using it (and the 'host' at the same time) would not be an experience to be cherished.

The 'guest' operating system can take a lot of resources, and shares those available in the PC, with the 'host' operating system.

You are effectively running two operating systems at the same time, using the resources available in the PC.

If the PC has sufficient resources for one operating system, but not a lot left over, then something has to suffer.

Tar.Aldarion

WOuld be a pain in teh ass to set up a vm with all my steam games and my nvidia 3d vision etc? If you don't have something like that to do, VM it up.

syklops

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

WOuld be a pain in teh ass to set up a vm with all my steam games and my nvidia 3d vision etc? If you don't have something like that to do, VM it up.

Some of those steam games might run natively.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah a couple do all right, amnesia and the like, over 100 don't


Hopefully we'll see more being supported.

Tom Dunne

Is it time for me to jump in and remind everyone of my experiences of switching to Linux?

As with most things in life, context is king. As I discovered last year, using Linux in a pure Windows networked environment simply does not work. Sure, I got printers working (with some issues), I got read-only access to Sharepoint (like it or not, I have to use it), but I don't care what anyone says, the biggest issue for me was compatibility with Office Documents. I corrupted more Word/Excel documents over the course of three months than I have in the last 20 years using native apps.

For techie things like system admin and development, Linux worked flawlessly. For basic office work, including generating a vast range of documents, it just doesn't cut the mustard. And switching the 2,500 people in my organisation over to Open Office is never going to happen.

In the end, I just gave up. It simply wasn't worth the heartache.

Horses for courses, really.

(I should point out that I am far from anti-Linux. I have been using Linux since the 90's. When most of you were probably starting school. )