Are Ireland's 17,600 Nigerian residents able to send home 468 M last year???

The_Gatsby · 19-05-2013 05:11PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Bondholders are getting 160 times what these people are sending home

That doesn't make it any less of an issue. There is a real problem here. If Nigerian people are sending money home then I would have thought so would a lot of other nationalities. The amount of money being sent to foreign countries by immigrant workers probably far exceeds the approximate €500 million given in that report.

The problem here is why do immigrants not want to invest in our economy? Is it right that somebody comes to our country, reaps all the benefits that come with living in a developed country and does not repay the country by reinvesting in the economy? I'm not saying that immigrants come here to take advantage of us. If I were a Nigerian immigrant earning decent money then I'd definitely send some back home to my less well off family. The question is how can we make such people spend their money in our economy so it benefits us as a nation.

AndyMc · 19-05-2013 05:13PM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

The question is how can we make such people spend their money in our economy so it benefits us as a nation.

The only way would be to move their family here.

The_Gatsby · 19-05-2013 05:14PM

AndyMc wrote: »

The only way would be to move their family here.

Or make it illegal.

AndyMc · 19-05-2013 05:17PM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Or make it illegal.

And what? Open ever letter they send home? Then they leave to go somewhere that they can support their family back home.

Make It Happen 968 · 19-05-2013 05:17PM

Montroseee wrote: »

You must lack common sense. The figures simply don't add up, a 10 yr old could see that. The facts are there, how can a working force of around 6000 send home in excess of 50 k each, it would be hard to do that on 100 k pre tax. It's ludicrous to suggest this is open racism.

I agree the figures dont add up. I dont agree with the general assumption that the only conclusion here is that Nigerians in Ireland are involved in criminal behaviour.
There maybe perfectly legitimate reasons for this, there maybe a a minority of criminal activities. I think you need more evidence than these figures to jump to the conclusions that Nigerians in Ireland are fiddling the system.
The main criminal activity in ireland is by drug gangs and thats where the garda resources should be focussed.

The_Gatsby · 19-05-2013 05:18PM

AndyMc wrote: »

And what? Open ever letter they send home? Then they leave to go somewhere that they can support their family back home.

money is normally sent electronically. I didn't say it was a good idea to make it illegal. It's a terrible idea. I'm just making the point that moving people's families over here isn't the only way.

karma_ · 19-05-2013 05:19PM

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

It's pretty pathetic to see the "smart" condescending comments attempt to shut down any discussion on this topic. Entirely predictable though.

These figures certainly warrant some further investigation. It's not a problem with people sending money home. It's a question of where did this money come from.

The figures just don't seem to add up, given the number of Nigerian residents of working age actually in employment.

Here's the problem I have with your posts and those thanking them. You say that these figures don't add up and immediately conclude that something fishy or illegal is going on. The first thought you had was not that these figures are most likely vastly overestimated, it's at the literal other end of the scale - and that speaks volumes.

AndyMc · 19-05-2013 05:21PM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

money is normally sent electronically. I didn't say it was a good idea to make it illegal. It's a terrible idea. I'm just making the point that moving people's families over here isn't the only way.

The point of my comment was that as long as their family remains in their home country they'll try to support them.

The_Gatsby · 19-05-2013 05:25PM

AndyMc wrote: »

The point of my comment was that as long as their family remains in their home country they'll try to support them.

Well then could you argue that as long as their family needs to be supported then they will support them? In that case, you're right. There's not much we can do.

Death and Taxes · 19-05-2013 05:27PM

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Or make it illegal.

Jaysus H Christ!
Didn't hear people calling for it be illegal when the boot was on the other foot in the 50's and the 80's.

Miss Lockhart · 19-05-2013 05:28PM

karma_ wrote: »

Here's the problem I have with your posts and those thanking them. You say that these figures don't add up and immediately conclude that something fishy or illegal is going on. The first thought you had was not that these figures are most likely vastly overestimated, it's at the literal other end of the scale - and that speaks volumes.

I'm taking the figures at face value. A further investigation would look into the accuracy of the figures.

And just so you can add some clarification to your volumes, I personally think organised crime by a minority, rather than criminal behaviour by a majority, is more likely to be behind any such figures.

But if you want to label me as a racist or anti-immigration or anything else you think you can get from the volumes my posts are apparently speaking, then go right ahead. I, and anyone I know irl, know how laughably inaccurate that would be.

The_Gatsby · 19-05-2013 05:30PM

Death and Taxes wrote: »

Jaysus H Christ!
Didn't hear people calling for it be illegal when the boot was on the other foot in the 50's and the 80's.

Me neither. But then again, I don't see anybody calling for it in this case either.

desertcircus · 19-05-2013 05:32PM

This is beyond ludicrous. How does a rational human being read that story, do the maths, figure out that means about sixty thousand quid a year per Nigerian (an utterly lunatic figure, even for people on huge money) and fail to draw the conclusion that someone in the Irish Independent is an innumerate moron who can't understand basic stats? Even if the entire upper echelon of Irish crime was Nigerian they'd have trouble sending that kind of money. It's a literally unbelievable figure. If the Info claimed Nigerians were stealing bits of the moon and causing weaker tides as a result, would you believe it? Yet we're happy to believe that a pretty poor immigrant community is sending home a year's median Irish salary each after tax and living expenses?

Montroseee · 19-05-2013 05:36PM

desertcircus wrote: »

This is beyond ludicrous. How does a rational human being read that story, do the maths, figure out that means about sixty thousand quid a year per Nigerian (an utterly lunatic figure, even for people on huge money) and fail to draw the conclusion that someone in the Irish Independent is an innumerate moron who can't understand basic stats? Even if the entire upper echelon of Irish crime was Nigerian they'd have trouble sending that kind of money. It's a literally unbelievable figure. If the Info claimed Nigerians were stealing bits of the moon and causing weaker tides as a result, would you believe it? Yet we're happy to believe that a pretty poor immigrant community is sending home a year's median Irish salary each after tax and living expenses?

The stats are from the Central Statistics Office and World bank, the reporter is just breaking that down to money sent per person.

Marcin_diy · 19-05-2013 05:40PM

Thanks God it is not another thread about Polish draining Irish banks and sending home huge amounts.

As per newspaper 122.000 Polish people sent only 174m euro, so it is only 1400 euro per year or 120 euro per month per head. So this is more less the same that Irish are spending on holidays abroad.

Make It Happen 968 · 19-05-2013 05:42PM

Marcin_diy wrote: »

Thanks God it is not another thread about Polish draining Irish banks and sending home huge amounts.

As per newspaper 122.000 Polish people sent only 174m euro, so it is only 1400 euro per year or 120 euro per month per head. So this is more less the same that Irish are spending on holidays abroad.

Haha well we love to blame others especially those pesky foreigners! Unfortunately it was irish people (minority) that screwed the country whilst the majority were along for the sweet ride.

losthorizon · 19-05-2013 05:49PM

Montroseee wrote: »

There are many British men and women in highly paid positions in Ireland, the same cannot be said for Nigerians, really shouldn't really have to spell this out. In my College department for example there are 3 senior lecturers who are English. As far as I know, there are plenty of English surgeons and consultants working in Ireland etc. etc. I can take a bit of comfort knowing the Dail and Shatter are going to address this issue.

If you look at Socio-economic groups besides Employers and Managers the two nationalities are virtually the same in skill sets.

Most Nigerians actually tend to be in a relationship with an Irish person according to the Irish census figures as well btw.

strandroad · 19-05-2013 05:51PM

desertcircus wrote: »

This is beyond ludicrous. How does a rational human being read that story, do the maths, figure out that means about sixty thousand quid a year per Nigerian (an utterly lunatic figure, even for people on huge money) and fail to draw the conclusion that someone in the Irish Independent is an innumeratie moron who can't understand basic stats? Even if the entire upper echelon of Irish crime was Nigerian they'd have trouble sending that kind of money. It's a literally unbelievable figure. If the Info claimed Nigerians were stealing bits of the moon and causing weaker tides as a result, would you believe it? Yet we're happy to believe that a pretty poor immigrant community is sending home a year's median Irish salary each after tax and living expenses?

What do these figures cover at all? I remember articles about the immigrants sending back billions before and when questioned it turned out that the figures included commercial accounts, investments etc., basically any money lodged to foreign accounts. Private individuals may be last on the list here, after legit business dealings and scams.

Forest Demon · 19-05-2013 06:21PM

The elephant in the room is people are suspected of signing on with multiple identities and then wiring the money home. Do we really think that the state institutions are so on top of things that this does not happen in Ireland. Huge crackdown in the UK at the moment.

Nigerians have the highest rate of unemployment in the country at 40% and the most amount of money sent home. You don't need to be a big racist Colombo to realise that something does not add up especially when you read some of the links below. They also have most amount of people on rent allowance after Irish. Something does not tally or the 60% of Nigerians working must be all on 200k and sending half it home.

It should also be investigated if we find out that Eskimos sent half a billion out of the country last year.

Links:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210157/Nigerian-couple-tried-claim-3-8m-eye-watering-benefits-scam-using-1-400-identities.html

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3029&Itemid=38

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-uncover-2m-fraud-by-asylum-applicants-26494633.html

http://234pulse.com/2013/05/05/nigerian-woman-fined-300000-for-welfare-fraud-in-uk/

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/IRELAND-UK%20ACCORD%20TO%20FURTHER%20SECURE%20THE%20COMMON%20TRAVEL%20AREA

If the enquiry finds that all money is earned and legal and all taxes are paid then more power to them sending the money home. Doubt it myself.

southsiderosie · 19-05-2013 06:25PM

squod wrote: »

Likely they're paying back loans to people who sent them here in the first place. No chance of the gubberment taxing this revenue stream though. That might be sensible.

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Because that money would be better served going back into our own economy.

We need to try and encourage them to spend that money in our own economy so we can benefit from them being here. That's part of the reason Ireland is so lax on immigration laws.

The_Gatsby wrote: »

That doesn't make it any less of an issue. There is a real problem here. If Nigerian people are sending money home then I would have thought so would a lot of other nationalities. The amount of money being sent to foreign countries by immigrant workers probably far exceeds the approximate €500 million given in that report.

The problem here is why do immigrants not want to invest in our economy? Is it right that somebody comes to our country, reaps all the benefits that come with living in a developed country and does not repay the country by reinvesting in the economy? I'm not saying that immigrants come here to take advantage of us. If I were a Nigerian immigrant earning decent money then I'd definitely send some back home to my less well off family. The question is how can we make such people spend their money in our economy so it benefits us as a nation.

The_Gatsby wrote: »

Or make it illegal.

How much does 'the nation' need to take before people are allowed to do what they wish with their disposable income? Foreigners pay rent, utilities, bus and transit fare, payroll taxes, and VAT on consumer goods just like everyone else. Plus, given the precarious state of European banks, I find it odd that anyone in Europe, and Ireland in particular, would call for restrictions on moving money out of the country!

If people want to send 500 euro home a month instead of pissing it away in bars, Sky Sports, or whatever else, well as long as they have paid their taxes, that is their business. Do you lecture Irish workers who save a large percentage of their income every month, rather than spending it, as well?

B.A._Baracus · 19-05-2013 07:02PM

Ahh the Nigerians

I actually know an Nigerian guy who spends roughly half of the year back in Nigeria (goes over for 3 months at a time) He fills up a van load of stuff and ships it back home, then sells the stuff + the van.

The nigerians would all show us how to make money :P Ahh, they are right I guess.

charlemont · 19-05-2013 07:12PM

Death and Taxes wrote: »

Jaysus H Christ!
Didn't hear people calling for it be illegal when the boot was on the other foot in the 50's and the 80's.

Its the default reactionary move...:pac:

Gatling · 19-05-2013 07:44PM

I was in tallaght Garda station on Friday ,at the desk was a young Nigerian chap (he stated to the desk Guard) he wanted a woman arrested who shipped a BMW he had bought for €24,000 from dublin to Nigeria, the car was then supposedly siezed by Nigerian customs ,the garda replied where did you get the money buy a BMW and have it shipped to Nigeria "can you not buy a BMW in Nigeria" nigerian chap replied I used my job seekers to buy it ,again garda how long were you saving "7 months " was the reply suddenly the somebody became interested in how 188pw could allow him to save €24,000 in 7 months ,the Nigerian chap then says I don't want the car , I want the €35,000 in a case in the boot of the said BMW returned ,again where did you get the € 35,000 in the boot of the car supposedly now in Nigeria " I saved my job seeker for a few months "
Now how the hell does anybody save that amount €50,000 give or take on jobseeker's while paying rent ,bills and food I dont think so ,
Again this chap demanded the again I want somebody arrested now ,
Garda on the desk calls a detective down to take the complaint I suspect its going to end badly for the original complainant

pragmatic1 · 19-05-2013 07:45PM

So what. Irish people living in the UK did the same thing for decades. It's what built this country.

IM0 · 19-05-2013 07:47PM

they would need a pretty big fuck off boat for that OP

wendell borton · 19-05-2013 07:54PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As opposed to what we Irish have been doing since the 1840's???? We can hardly fling dirt at anyone else for doing it when we have been doing it for 170 odd years. Hell there are Irish people abroad working at them moment sending money home from wherever they are!

I must have missed the part where 40% of them were on welfare.
The money the irish sent home has hard earned with no state supports.If an Irish person emigrated to the USA and was unable to work they weren't allowed through Ellis island.

Forest Demon · 19-05-2013 08:16PM

wendell borton wrote: »

I must have missed the part where 40% of them were on welfare.
The money the irish sent home has hard earned with no state supports.If an Irish person emigrated to the USA and was unable to work they weren't allowed through Ellis island.

A point always glossed over in justifying people taking advantage of the incompetent Irish state institutions.

How many Irish get rent allowance in America? How many get Social Welfare? How many avail of free education and healthcare? How many do this with multiple fake identities?

Norwesterner · 19-05-2013 08:20PM

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not racist but...

That kind of attitude would almost push people into the anti immigration camp.

notharrypotter · 19-05-2013 08:27PM

Can anyone post a link to the "World Bank" stats referenced in the Indo article?

Norwesterner · 19-05-2013 08:29PM

I'm an Irish immigrant abroad. (refused dole and unable to find work in Ireland)
To enter the country I'm in I had to take a full medical, including AIDS test.
I had to show sufficient funds to keep myself for 1 year.
I had to provide a police report showing I had no criminal record.

I received no Welfare or state funding as I looked for work.
I received no help to pay my rent (the concept is unheard of here).

I now earn 4$ an hour and unable to send any cash home.
I'm absolutely livid reading this from abroad.

Are Ireland's 17,600 Nigerian residents able to send home 468 M last year???

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