one in 7

Czarcasm wrote: »

dj you keep saying "You know who we're talking about here", etc. But DO YOU know who you're talking about? Have you ever talked to them or were you too busy looking down your nose at them and dismissing them all as scum? An inflammatory rag like the Sindo is written with extremists like you in mind. You buy into that crap hook, line and sinker.

People like you are just as bad as the people you despise- you both expect "the government" to do something about the problem, so neither of you have to consider the option of getting your hands dirty and meeting in the middle somewhere and thrash out the issues and come up with viable long term solutions amongst yourselves.

You'll be waiting tbh, the government hasn't hands to wipe their collective arses, much less do they actually care, just as long as they can last till the next election and pass the buck to the next crowd of incompetents (already people are frothing at the mouth to put fianna failure back in government because they think FG/LAB will give a shìt about being "punished").

How about you approach these people yourself and find out exactly why they have no motivation to contribute to a society that dismisses them as scum? It's not fcuking rocket science to figure out where the attitude stems from, that's for sure.

Or, I suppose you could preach from your high horse about what the rest of us aren't doing to solve the problem. Mind that horse though, they're prone to knee jerk reactions when they read a puff piece with fisher price analysis of statistics in an inflammatory rag that also couldn't care less about anything but peddling it's crap to mindless numbnuts.

I sometimes wonder WOULD it be a good thing if there was no such thing as anonymity on the Internet. It'd cut out half this nonsense if people actually had to stand behind their ill informed opinions.

mattjack wrote: »

You do debate fairly well fairly well yourself , but the rolling eyes symbol suggests you're just sneering at people who dispute you're opinion.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Read my post again

Czarcasm wrote: »

I've just seen your edit dj, I'm not your buddy either, lets just clear that one up right now.

You were the one who made it political in your OP by involving the government and saying they were willing to do nothing about it, so "we as a people" (hate that expression "as a" anything btw, we're all fcuking human beings surely so the point of "as a" anything is moot), so it's YOUR rant, not mine, that you should be calling yourself up on.

Chances are btw I've worked with a lot of your neighbours tbh, far more decent people to work with than you and your condescendingly smug attitude. Probably best you go back to burying your head in the Sindo because your "angry bastard" Internet rants are doing you no favors.

I for one anyway would prefer if you didn't lump me in with your "we the people" bullshìt because for me there is no "us against them". We're all human beings at the end of the day, it costs nothing to be civil to each other. It gets you hell of a lot further in life than being a dick.

Czarcasm wrote: »

If by that you mean you're willing to engage in the discussion as a reasonable adult with a rational point of view, that's great, because it means finally this discussion might go somewhere towards creating better understanding for all involved.





I'd describe them as unmotivated and selfish individuals, only concerned with their own welfare. But then the same could be said for a lot of people who choose to accept a situation yet expect everyone else to change it for them, so you could apply that same description to many people. The only difference here is that they see no reason to change their behaviour when they are satisfied with being financially rewarded for their lack of motivation.





Potayto potahto, those kind of lazy generalisations are helping nobody and if anything only solidify taking an aggressive stance on either side of the issue.





dj they don't have to steal their income though, not when they are being GIVEN their income by the government, so you need to push responsibility for that back on the people who have enabled them to legally avail of this free income- the government.





I'm not confusing anyone you describe with anyone dj. We all have real needs, just everyone has different needs. I'm a firm believer in throwing money at a problem solves nothing. The government and many people in Irish society don't share that philosophy, but that's a short term perspective we need to change if we're serious about solving the problem.





When's the last time you had one of your neighbours over for coffee and a chat and expressed your concerns to them? You live in ground zero because you CHOOSE to there. I don't live in ground zero because I chose not to. I chose to work with the people that come from ground zero though to motivate them to get out of there.

I don't do pissing contests on the Internet, as I don't know you, and you don't know me, so that's not a wager I'd be prepared to take you up on as it serves no purpose.




You'd be wrong there dj, I never "leave work", for me helping and motivating people to fulfill their full potential is a constant work in progress, no 9 to 5 about it, it's 24/7 as I see it.





You have second hand knowledge of what you're talking about, third hand even given your OP was based on a puff piece you just picked up in the Sindo. If you have never worked a day in your life, but chosen to fund your lifestyle from social welfare, that'd be first hand knowledge. I too only have second hand knowledge, but like I said earlier- I have no desire for a pissing contest that solves nothing, I don't know you, and by that same token- you don't know me.





I'd call them a thieving scumbag, but then I'd say that of anybody who obtained any goods, services, or anything they had, by illegal means.

cletus van damme wrote: »

I dont have them cos they dont exist - the state dont keep those figures
and i think you know that.

however i am involved in an advocacy group and it would be a frequent story.

Also another family member was on sick benefit which was stopped but she was re-directed to the dole by the social welfare after going into the office on pearce street dublin 2 and answering a series of random questions.
but in her letter cutting off the sick benefit she was re-directed to the dole. her condition had no changed - her own doctor verified this.

now why didn't she appeal?

cos the appeals process can take a year in which you dont get the assistance
it's just easier to take the dole , well you could starve , i guess.

you see , there are stats, figures and processes and then there is reality

btw - i agree there are some who need a boot in the hole, i was challenging the assertion that it was all 43,000

kingsenny wrote: »

Are you effing kidding me? LOL. We are not their parents, their minders or anything of the sort. If they're too lazy to get a job, then cut them off. Their attitude will change fierce quick. Why should he waste his own time, when he could be out working and earning his own living?

There are hundreds of thousands of people who didn't need other people to come out and motivate/coerce them into working. Able bodied people do not need to be spoon-fed. They need to learn the value of contributing to society just like everybody else did.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Great, now we've identified and agreed on the problem, what solutions do you propose?





Something isn't stolen if it is given to a person. If you truly want to stop people availing of what they are legally entitled to, then lets hear some of of your proposals for a solution to the problem!




Someone will an ill informed opinion and clearly no actual knowledge of the situation would indeed be given to think it's as simple as that. Someone who works with people who have never experienced a days employment and have no motivation to do so would have the knowledge that the situation ISN'T as simple as you make out.

The solution is though- Work with them to give them the motivation to seek alternatives so they're not stuck in ground zero dependent on social welfare for their income which can be slashed at a whim in the next budget.


Still waiting on that PM btw in reply to my earlier invitation to come and work with me for a day, or are you just another blow hard with no interest in actually solving the issues you're crowing about while expecting to leave the work to the rest of "we people"? Does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy too or were you just doing the usual spouting bitter platitudes on the Internet expecting people to rally in behind you?

If all you wanted was validation for your ill informed opinions might I suggest you use Facebook instead of boards if you aren't interested in discussing working together to put forward solutions instead of just preaching from your soapbox.