Can this country recover?

charlemont · 18-05-2013 02:55PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

This country has the ability to recover and excel. But it won't happen until the establishment (i.e. civil service, bankers, politicians and legal profession) is effectively destroyed and rebuilt. The rot is too deep. Especially in the civil service.

Very true. This country will never change, We had the opportunities and the above mentioned cliques destroyed it although they were supported by the majority of people here.. The mind boggles..Most people still support these leeches..Carry on, No changes here Lads..

FamousSeamus · 18-05-2013 03:06PM

Ya we'll recover but then FF will get back in and we'll have low taxes high spending increasing our deficit and back to recession, its happened before why not keep the cycle going

18-05-2013 03:22PM

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

The job market has something to do with it as when a company hires you they see you as an investment as opposed to someone who can merely fill a gap like before. Fork lift driving although it doesnt pay fortunes, it is a skill that not everyone has and requires alot of health and safety standards. Forklifts can easily topple over and crush people amongst many other potential hazards so i understand that companies will be picky enough on who they select and not just hire any reckless maverick. They dont want a potential lawsuit and believe you me there is many either dead or disable due to forklift accidents. The next phase could be a possible task oriented phase where they judge your abilities on the truck.

Best of luck either way

18-05-2013 03:28PM

Dont forget also OP, a certain high profile company down here in Tipperary received bad publicity a number of years ago over employees maggot acting with forklifts and making it public.

Companies are very very picky about the personnel and who they pick these times. These things aren't toys and they want to ensure people realise that

Grayson · 18-05-2013 03:32PM

theidiots wrote: »

Scrap Arts degree, A degree with philosophy is really going to land you a job. Better computer courses and keep enticing MNC to set up here

I'm doing my finals in Philosophy atm.

questionmark? · 18-05-2013 03:45PM

I feckn hope it recovers. I want to be able to move back at some stage!

The fact is among my friends there is now more of them living abroad than in Ireland with more planning to go in the coming months. Worrying thing about it is the vast majority are working proper jobs none if this back packing in Australia **** so less chance of them ever coming back.

I hope for the sake of the country that it recovers sooner rather than later, which I think it will, or Ireland will lose a generation of young and educated people.

Roger_007 · 18-05-2013 03:50PM

Grayson wrote: »

I'm doing my finals in Philosophy atm.

Good luck with that. You may not get a job but you will be able to explain why that is, (in the grand scheme of things).

Grayson · 18-05-2013 04:16PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Good luck with that. You may not get a job but you will be able to explain why that is, (in the grand scheme of things).

Probably not even that. Philosophy doesn't give answers. Just teaches you how to figure out what questions you should be asking.

Just as well I already have a job. But the stupid way multinationals work means that I can't get a promotion beyond my present pay grade unless I have a degree. So even though I'm a technical specialist, a degree in philosophy will get me a promotion.

Roger_007 · 18-05-2013 04:21PM

Grayson wrote: »

.................So even though I'm a technical specialist, a degree in philosophy will get me a promotion.

I think you have just explained exactly why the country is fcuked.

Playboy · 18-05-2013 04:35PM

Depends on how you define recover. The Celtic Tiger was a false economy. We dont want another bubble with excessive liquidity and people living beyond their means. We need to find our level... that is where house prices and salaries are sensible, where we have developed some niche skills within our workforce to make us an attractive investment location. Imo we need to focus our educational system. The country needs to find a way to economically and industrially set itself apart from other countries in the world. We need to be the best at something ala german engineering. We want to develop industries and attract investment because of the skill set within our workforce and not because of our low corporation tax and proximity to european markets. Subsidise specific 3rd level courses such as maths, science, engineering, computer science. Remove subsidies for arts and other similar studies. People can study arts if they want but the reality is the government cant afford to subsidise it unless its assisting the economy. Our lofty ideals about the goals of education need to be put aside for the time being. We need strong leadership and vision to take the country where it needs to go. Unfortunately know one seems to be standing up and taking responsibility. Our government are too interested in playing party politics and pleasing the locals to ensure re-election. Whether we get there in the end, who knows. I would say 50/50.

Playboy · 18-05-2013 04:36PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think you have just explained exactly why the country is fcuked.

Because of a multinationals policy?

Roger_007 · 18-05-2013 04:44PM

Playboy wrote: »

Because of a multinationals policy?

No, because I can't see the point of having a degree in philosophy being of any use for a technical specialist. If I have a technical problem I don't want someone to tell me that problems are good for my mental development.

pragmatic1 · 18-05-2013 04:44PM

questionmark? wrote: »

I feckn hope it recovers. I want to be able to move back at some stage!

The fact is among my friends there is now more of them living abroad than in Ireland with more planning to go in the coming months. Worrying thing about it is the vast majority are working proper jobs none if this back packing in Australia **** so less chance of them ever coming back.

I hope for the sake of the country that it recovers sooner rather than later, which I think it will, or Ireland will lose a generation of young and educated people.

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

Brain Stroking · 18-05-2013 05:28PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

This country has the ability to recover and excel. But it won't happen until the establishment (i.e. civil service, bankers, politicians and legal profession) is effectively destroyed and rebuilt. The rot is too deep. Especially in the civil service.

Lol. How pragmatic

Galwayguy35 · 18-05-2013 05:37PM

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

You sound like you have a bit of a snobby attitude towards a forklift driving job.

charlemont · 18-05-2013 07:36PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

The Romanians and Bulgarians will be here next year to replace them..:P

NuckingFacker · 18-05-2013 08:05PM

Define "Recover". Those old enough can cast their minds back to Ireland before the boom. Hitting that level and holding it will be "the recovery". If the idea of "Recovery" is getting the boomtime full-employment, inward migration and money to burn back, dream on. "Recovery" will be the hitting of the old norms and their maintenance. Minus some of the old hang ups and plus a more multi-cultural society. Which may or may not be a good thing. Time will tell. It's a small pond, too many fishing in it for a living and it might get empty fast.

questionmark? · 18-05-2013 08:34PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

It is a sad effect if what's happend. I'm from rural Ireland myself and when I get the rare chance to go home I do notice that my peer group is basically missing. The longer it goes on the less chance that people will move back as they settle into their new lives. Sometimes it feels like the Ireland I know no longer exists. People that have stayed will often say that nothing has changed but it has!

19-05-2013 01:45PM

charlemont wrote: »

The Romanians and Bulgarians will be here next year to replace them..:P

Came across this article on the Sindo today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

Now i dont want to sound like im racist or even anywhere near that border, which could prove a more difficult line to tow then i anticipate, but as an example we have approx 17600 Nigerians living in Ireland and they are sending home €500m a year (average €26000 each).

Now from their point of view i totally understand their motives and their need to move abroad and if push came to shove i would emigrate for a better standard of living, but from our side of things i would love to know how in gods name we allowed a situation to emerge where any 1 nation of people, could possibly be allowed residence at this level, I mean we are not bound by any trade agreements or open marketplace with Nigeria to do this, unlike the EU countries. I mean what are we getting back in return? Oil or Minerals? Access to emerging markets?

Or was it just a case of the dopey Irish politicians doing what they do best, falling asleep behind the wheel and screwing up and yet being totally exonerated by our even more blind and daft electorate?

Granted there was employment deficits that needed to be filled but surely to god we could have come up with better solutions that looked after our own interests? Im not looking to argue with anyone and i hope i havent come across as racist and i would welcome your counter arguments but the fact is we are a small country and the morons in charge have basically handed visas out to all in sundry at an unsustainable level, given the lack of population and resources that existed in the country and of which continue to exist to this day. How far into the future could these clowns see in all honesty? Could they see beyond their f**king noses?

Nothing against the Nigerians, but that's just one example. How many other countries did we allow access to at such a level, despite having trade and immigration barriers in place?

Now that Bertie is advising them their own situation might worsen and we might have to increase their immigration level owing to a sense of guilt and duty in the future

Grayson · 19-05-2013 01:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Came across this article on the Sindo today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

Now i dont want to sound like im racist or even anywhere near that border, which could prove a more difficult line to tow then i anticipate, but as an example we have approx 17600 Nigerians living in Ireland and they are sending home €500m a year (average €26000 each).

Now from their point of view i totally understand their motives and their need to move abroad and if push came to shove i would emigrate for a better standard of living, but from our side of things i would love to know how in gods name we allowed a situation to emerge where any 1 nation of people, could possibly be allowed residence at this level, I mean we are not bound by any trade agreements or open marketplace with Nigeria to do this, unlike the EU countries. I mean what are we getting back in return? Oil or Minerals? Access to emerging markets?

Or was it just a case of the dopey Irish politicians doing what they do best, falling asleep behind the wheel and screwing up and yet being totally exonerated by our even more blind and daft electorate?

Granted there was employment deficits that needed to be filled but surely to god we could have come up with better solutions that looked after our own interests? Im not looking to argue with anyone and i hope i havent come across as racist and i would welcome your counter arguments but the fact is we are a small country and the morons in charge have basically handed visas out to all in sundry at an unsustainable level, given the lack of population and resources that existed in the country and of which continue to exist to this day. How far into the future could these clowns see in all honesty? Could they see beyond their f**king noses?

Nothing against the Nigerians, but that's just one example. How many other countries did we allow access to at such a level, despite having trade and immigration barriers in place?

Now that Bertie is advising them their own situation might worsen and we might have to increase their immigration level owing to a sense of guilt and duty in the future

How many people think they're sending money to help a Nigerian prince?

Actually, it'd be interesting to know how they developed that figure.

What are the options? Black list countries that we send more money to than they send us? It's impractical and probably against may treaties designed to provide stability.

The only option is to make sure the education system is such that we don't need to import as much higher earning talent. Still I find it hard to imagine that the average Nigerian has €20k+ a year in surplus.

ToddyDoody · 19-05-2013 06:24PM

Recovery meaning people not; unemployed, emigrating, unable to meet bills... businesses and shops not closing, services not being cut, taxes not increasing... Who can say? The budget has to be balanced enough first, expecting that in... Three years? Tourism can contribute, exports from manufacturing and services and whatever domestic spending we can drum up, keep a somewhat technically educated workforce if possible, get rents and rates down, more credit facilities from the banks and, if at all possible, the odd clever start up, and / or infrastructure investment... Lets call the empty shops, hotels, business units, buildings etc. "spare capacity" If Nama could get them off the books for a decent price, lots to progress on.

FamousSeamus · 20-05-2013 11:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Came across this article on the Sindo today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

Now i dont want to sound like im racist or even anywhere near that border, which could prove a more difficult line to tow then i anticipate, but as an example we have approx 17600 Nigerians living in Ireland and they are sending home €500m a year (average €26000 each).

Now from their point of view i totally understand their motives and their need to move abroad and if push came to shove i would emigrate for a better standard of living, but from our side of things i would love to know how in gods name we allowed a situation to emerge where any 1 nation of people, could possibly be allowed residence at this level, I mean we are not bound by any trade agreements or open marketplace with Nigeria to do this, unlike the EU countries. I mean what are we getting back in return? Oil or Minerals? Access to emerging markets?

Or was it just a case of the dopey Irish politicians doing what they do best, falling asleep behind the wheel and screwing up and yet being totally exonerated by our even more blind and daft electorate?

Granted there was employment deficits that needed to be filled but surely to god we could have come up with better solutions that looked after our own interests? Im not looking to argue with anyone and i hope i havent come across as racist and i would welcome your counter arguments but the fact is we are a small country and the morons in charge have basically handed visas out to all in sundry at an unsustainable level, given the lack of population and resources that existed in the country and of which continue to exist to this day. How far into the future could these clowns see in all honesty? Could they see beyond their f**king noses?

Nothing against the Nigerians, but that's just one example. How many other countries did we allow access to at such a level, despite having trade and immigration barriers in place?

Now that Bertie is advising them their own situation might worsen and we might have to increase their immigration level owing to a sense of guilt and duty in the future

I just love the fact that its FF asking FG how is this happening and asking them to investigate when they were the ones who left them in and allowed them to do this all along

tin79 · 20-05-2013 11:27AM

HurtLocker wrote: »

Last year my uncle put up a job(factory work) on the paper. During the boom he struggled to get people to fill this type of job because it wasn't as high paying as the building and getting 10 replies of any caliber worker would be a miracle, but no guarantee a suitable person applied. Then foreigners coming in supplied the labour that no one else would.

He had two shoeboxes full of cvs by the closing date.Read through them all, picked the ones he liked and interviewed them. Got tried to get the best person for the job he could.

OP its a very good sign you got an interview. Competition for every job is stupidly stiff now. A wage is a wage.

He should splash out on some ring binders. Much more impressive and professional looking than a manky shoebox.

unless its a shoebox factory he has.

Can this country recover?

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