Can this country recover?

lost in cork

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

Kichote

They dont want you to see the inside of their own office incase you rob something or find a nice window to use as a target for your petrol bomb when they send you a PFO

StewartGriffin

Boom and Bust.
It's like tides of the ocean.
You can rely completely on a recovery.
followed by a bust.

dd972

In a word, No

I'm surprised you didn't have to do role plays with Actors and Psychometric tests, this is the age of Zombie Neo Liberalism.

Pilotdude5

I was on Patrick St myself today. I did actually notice many places closed down from when I lived nearby a few years ago.

The internet and bigbox stores have killed the high street anyway, recession or no reccession.

ron jambo

Least you weren't offered an intership .

General General

Yes. In fact, I think this country's best days are coming. It will take a while, but we will take off again & hopefully learn from our mistakes.

Zyzz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdjCb4LwQY

tootsy70

Yes but it will take a long long time and society as we know it or even knew it before will have completly changed for the worse. People think we have hit the bottom and tyhe only way is up, ballix i say to that, weve along long way to go yet before we can see light at the end of the tunnel

theidiots

Scrap Arts degree, A degree with philosophy is really going to land you a job. Better computer courses and keep enticing MNC to set up here

Czarcasm

You should have gone for a job driving a bulldozer, much cooler than driving a forklift (Well, forklifts are cool for bursting the large airbags they have in the back of the forty foot containers... ), but every man and his dog has a safepass nowadays and knows how to drive a forklift!

Bulldozer job would've been cool to flatten all the empty shops, but good luck with the forklift job anyway OP, hope you get it and you do your bit to give the economy a lift!

pragmatic1

This country has the ability to recover and excel. But it won't happen until the establishment (i.e. civil service, bankers, politicians and legal profession) is effectively destroyed and rebuilt. The rot is too deep. Especially in the civil service.

lost in cork

ron jambo wrote: »

Least you weren't offered an intership .

That was last week ,im not joking ,it was for a driving job not sure whether my mentor would have been sat alongside me all the time or not

Havermeyer

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Boom and Bust.
It's like tides of the ocean.
You can rely completely on a recovery.
followed by a bust.

Tis the capitalist way.

Aidric

A good first step would be to report the statistics truthfully.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/17/that-hideous-strength/

lost in cork

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

So this is your attitude towards the job? Do you think any Tom, Dick or lost in cork can do it? I can tell you that not all of them can. It may seem like an ordinary blue collared job but believe it or not, it requires skill. Its also a very sought after position and you should be grateful that you got to the interview stage.

As for the venue for the interview, so what? I worked for a big time electrical company and they often used a near by hotel for interviews/meetings/training etc. Their main office was a lot more than plush. You could nearly live there because it was so nice. Using a hotel can make it more comfortable for people as it takes away the intimidating 'head office' feeling.

OP, best of luck and I hope you get the job. If not, I hope whoever gets it appreciates it more. And to answer your question, yes, we will recover in time. I actually think we're making progress at the momemt.

dxhound2005

Aidric wrote: »

A good first step would be to report the statistics truthfully.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/17/that-hideous-strength/

You could have elaborated a bit on your link. Anyway the gist of it is that Ireland is being proclaimed as a success internationally but the commentator does not agree because we have high unemployment.

A few more such strong recoveries and there will be no jobs left at all.

But if we had full employment like in the 2003 - 2007 period (well there were actually 4% on the dole but hundreds of thousand coming in from abroad to work) would that constitute a recovery? Was the whole Celtic Tiger thing from the mid 1990's with low unemployment and a go ahead construction sector not just a mirage?

So if the recovery is not to that condition what do we want to recover to? Mortgage interest rates of 20% of the 1980's. Unemployment and emigration even higher than now in the 1970's. Millions of working days lost through strikes in those years. Or social deprivation from the 1920's onwards that would make the so called austerity of present days seem like a picnic?

What will this recovery look like when it comes? My impression is that the thing that would make a big section of the population "happy" again is for their houses to go back to what they were selling for 7 years ago. And as has been said already in the thread that boom and bust pattern will keep recurring and the lessons of recent years will be forgotten soon enough.

General General

ron jambo wrote: »

Least you weren't offered an intership .

Worst part of such an internship would be the first six months where you would have to stack the same stuff by hand, just making a fork lift noise as you do.

krudler

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

That's just Mayo though, its like something out of Mad Max

The Backwards Man

Some people would have you believing we live in a war ravaged wasteland. This country is not that bad, we are readjusting from previous excesses and we will prevail.

I'll tell you one thing we do need to get shot of though. . . Deafeatist attitudes.

lost in cork

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Some people would have you believing we live in a war ravaged wasteland. This country is not that bad, we are readjusting from previous excesses and we will prevail.

I'll tell you one thing we do need to get shot of though. . . Deafeatist attitudes.

i have a feeling your lovely positive attitude stems from being in full employment

zega

Recovery is a long long way off.I'm 24 and can't see it happening till my mid thirties at the soonest.

HurtLocker

Last year my uncle put up a job(factory work) on the paper. During the boom he struggled to get people to fill this type of job because it wasn't as high paying as the building and getting 10 replies of any caliber worker would be a miracle, but no guarantee a suitable person applied. Then foreigners coming in supplied the labour that no one else would.

He had two shoeboxes full of cvs by the closing date.Read through them all, picked the ones he liked and interviewed them. Got tried to get the best person for the job he could.

OP its a very good sign you got an interview. Competition for every job is stupidly stiff now. A wage is a wage.

lost in cork

i consider an interview a small success ,every interview i go for the employer says they were swamped with applications

KyussBishop

We can recover, but it probably won't happen this decade without the EU's help. Unless a massive about-turn happens in the politics of countries like Germany, the EU will not be in a position to help, so we've got at least another half-decade of this to go (possibly ending with a Euro exit at some stage).

Can't vouch for this articles accuracy on the details, but it's right in pointing out the next massive upcoming body-blow we're about to get, from tattered bank balance sheets:
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/Finance/if-the-rest-are-only-half-as-bad-as-ireland.html

It's not looking good, but there might be some hope, as more and more EU countries start moving towards anti-austerity narrative (still can't personally see, how Germany might ever change their mind though).


If politicians from member states got their shít together, and properly negotiated recovery policies within the EU, the crisis is actually not that difficult to solve; politics within most governments though (and economic teaching almost everywhere) has been captured by neoliberal and neoclassical economic dogma, which are pseudo-scientific, and leave no room for anything other than austerity.

Until politicians in member states, disconnect from these pseudo-scientific economic theories, actually looking at their effects to see the blindingly obvious, that they don't work and are wrong; until that, and politicians looking at the available alternatives (those which respect and seek to adapt to evidence), we're pretty much fúcked.

Nabber

We will recover. It will be all down to the people tho (bar the spongers) There has been no visionary leader, no creativeness from government, just alot of tax paying and working hard. It's what we Irish do. Complain about the pain, but endure it and keep going. Greece complained and refused to move. We worked out better.


Spongers tho, fook me i really dislike them.

To the OP, in the boom lazy incompetent people infiltrated all jobs. Now we have chance to hire the best for all positions. Whether the drive a fork lift or design it.

beano345

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

ive been a forklift driver for 10 years and any job now wants you to do this internship s**t for 50 euro extra a week!instead of taking on someone with experience and paying them a proper wage they'd rather take on a novice who'll potentially cost them more in damages to the merchandise and the building!

lost in cork

beano345 wrote: »

ive been a forklift driver for 10 years and any job now wants you to do this internship s**t for 50 euro extra a week!instead of taking on someone with experience and paying them a proper wage they'd rather take on a novice who'll potentially cost them more in damages to the merchandise and the building!

it seems to me these internships are just a way of getting cheap labour and avoiding having to pay someone the minimum wage

beano345

lost in cork wrote: »

it seems to me these internships are just a way of getting cheap labour and avoiding having to pay someone the minimum wage

its b*llox can you imagine some 45 year old man whos drove a forklift his whole life and now finds himself unemployed! its all he knows! can the country recover?...not like this it wont! instead of paying experienced people and getting them back into employment their squeezing them out of jobs for cheap labour!

pragmatic1

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Some people would have you believing we live in a war ravaged wasteland. This country is not that bad, we are readjusting from previous excesses and we will prevail.

I'll tell you one thing we do need to get shot of though. . . Deafeatist attitudes.

Where do you live? A lot of the country is in a very bad shape. We've lost an entire generation in some parts.

mikom

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing we do need to get shot of though. . . Deafeatist attitudes.

Restaurants full of hearing aid wearing pensioners?
Yeah............. kill them all.

charlemont

pragmatic1 wrote: »

This country has the ability to recover and excel. But it won't happen until the establishment (i.e. civil service, bankers, politicians and legal profession) is effectively destroyed and rebuilt. The rot is too deep. Especially in the civil service.

Very true. This country will never change, We had the opportunities and the above mentioned cliques destroyed it although they were supported by the majority of people here.. The mind boggles..Most people still support these leeches..Carry on, No changes here Lads..

FamousSeamus

Ya we'll recover but then FF will get back in and we'll have low taxes high spending increasing our deficit and back to recession, its happened before why not keep the cycle going

lost in cork

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

The job market has something to do with it as when a company hires you they see you as an investment as opposed to someone who can merely fill a gap like before. Fork lift driving although it doesnt pay fortunes, it is a skill that not everyone has and requires alot of health and safety standards. Forklifts can easily topple over and crush people amongst many other potential hazards so i understand that companies will be picky enough on who they select and not just hire any reckless maverick. They dont want a potential lawsuit and believe you me there is many either dead or disable due to forklift accidents. The next phase could be a possible task oriented phase where they judge your abilities on the truck.

Best of luck either way

Dont forget also OP, a certain high profile company down here in Tipperary received bad publicity a number of years ago over employees maggot acting with forklifts and making it public.

Companies are very very picky about the personnel and who they pick these times. These things aren't toys and they want to ensure people realise that

Grayson

theidiots wrote: »

Scrap Arts degree, A degree with philosophy is really going to land you a job. Better computer courses and keep enticing MNC to set up here

I'm doing my finals in Philosophy atm.

questionmark?

I feckn hope it recovers. I want to be able to move back at some stage!

The fact is among my friends there is now more of them living abroad than in Ireland with more planning to go in the coming months. Worrying thing about it is the vast majority are working proper jobs none if this back packing in Australia **** so less chance of them ever coming back.

I hope for the sake of the country that it recovers sooner rather than later, which I think it will, or Ireland will lose a generation of young and educated people.

Roger_007

Grayson wrote: »

I'm doing my finals in Philosophy atm.

Good luck with that. You may not get a job but you will be able to explain why that is, (in the grand scheme of things).

Grayson

Roger_007 wrote: »

Good luck with that. You may not get a job but you will be able to explain why that is, (in the grand scheme of things).

Probably not even that. Philosophy doesn't give answers. Just teaches you how to figure out what questions you should be asking.

Just as well I already have a job. But the stupid way multinationals work means that I can't get a promotion beyond my present pay grade unless I have a degree. So even though I'm a technical specialist, a degree in philosophy will get me a promotion.

Roger_007

Grayson wrote: »

.................So even though I'm a technical specialist, a degree in philosophy will get me a promotion.

I think you have just explained exactly why the country is fcuked.

Playboy

Depends on how you define recover. The Celtic Tiger was a false economy. We dont want another bubble with excessive liquidity and people living beyond their means. We need to find our level... that is where house prices and salaries are sensible, where we have developed some niche skills within our workforce to make us an attractive investment location. Imo we need to focus our educational system. The country needs to find a way to economically and industrially set itself apart from other countries in the world. We need to be the best at something ala german engineering. We want to develop industries and attract investment because of the skill set within our workforce and not because of our low corporation tax and proximity to european markets. Subsidise specific 3rd level courses such as maths, science, engineering, computer science. Remove subsidies for arts and other similar studies. People can study arts if they want but the reality is the government cant afford to subsidise it unless its assisting the economy. Our lofty ideals about the goals of education need to be put aside for the time being. We need strong leadership and vision to take the country where it needs to go. Unfortunately know one seems to be standing up and taking responsibility. Our government are too interested in playing party politics and pleasing the locals to ensure re-election. Whether we get there in the end, who knows. I would say 50/50.

Playboy

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think you have just explained exactly why the country is fcuked.

Because of a multinationals policy?

Roger_007

Playboy wrote: »

Because of a multinationals policy?

No, because I can't see the point of having a degree in philosophy being of any use for a technical specialist. If I have a technical problem I don't want someone to tell me that problems are good for my mental development.

pragmatic1

questionmark? wrote: »

I feckn hope it recovers. I want to be able to move back at some stage!

The fact is among my friends there is now more of them living abroad than in Ireland with more planning to go in the coming months. Worrying thing about it is the vast majority are working proper jobs none if this back packing in Australia **** so less chance of them ever coming back.

I hope for the sake of the country that it recovers sooner rather than later, which I think it will, or Ireland will lose a generation of young and educated people.

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

Brain Stroking

pragmatic1 wrote: »

This country has the ability to recover and excel. But it won't happen until the establishment (i.e. civil service, bankers, politicians and legal profession) is effectively destroyed and rebuilt. The rot is too deep. Especially in the civil service.

Lol. How pragmatic

Galwayguy35

lost in cork wrote: »

I went for a job interview today for what was ostensibly a forklift drivers job ,only to be told i would be informed that if i was successful i would be put forward to the second round of interviews ,my god its a forklift job not some high powered executive job,the interviews were held in a hotel where they had booked a room obviously there own company offices 2 miles down the road werent plush enough for us snobby forklift drivers,after the high powerered interview i went for a stroll down Patrick St. in Cork window shopping and dreaming of the millions this forklift job would bring me,only to be a litttle bit dismayed at the amount of shops that are shutdown .On a recent trip to Mayo i noticed how many places were shut on my way through the towns and villages but i didnt expect to see Patrick St and its environs in the same way

You sound like you have a bit of a snobby attitude towards a forklift driving job.

charlemont

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

The Romanians and Bulgarians will be here next year to replace them..:P

NuckingFacker

Define "Recover". Those old enough can cast their minds back to Ireland before the boom. Hitting that level and holding it will be "the recovery". If the idea of "Recovery" is getting the boomtime full-employment, inward migration and money to burn back, dream on. "Recovery" will be the hitting of the old norms and their maintenance. Minus some of the old hang ups and plus a more multi-cultural society. Which may or may not be a good thing. Time will tell. It's a small pond, too many fishing in it for a living and it might get empty fast.

questionmark?

pragmatic1 wrote: »

An entire generation is lost in much of Donegal. It's a really serious consequence of this recession. It's going to have a major affect for years to come. Even after the recession has ended.

It is a sad effect if what's happend. I'm from rural Ireland myself and when I get the rare chance to go home I do notice that my peer group is basically missing. The longer it goes on the less chance that people will move back as they settle into their new lives. Sometimes it feels like the Ireland I know no longer exists. People that have stayed will often say that nothing has changed but it has!

charlemont

charlemont wrote: »

The Romanians and Bulgarians will be here next year to replace them..:P

Came across this article on the Sindo today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

Now i dont want to sound like im racist or even anywhere near that border, which could prove a more difficult line to tow then i anticipate, but as an example we have approx 17600 Nigerians living in Ireland and they are sending home €500m a year (average €26000 each).

Now from their point of view i totally understand their motives and their need to move abroad and if push came to shove i would emigrate for a better standard of living, but from our side of things i would love to know how in gods name we allowed a situation to emerge where any 1 nation of people, could possibly be allowed residence at this level, I mean we are not bound by any trade agreements or open marketplace with Nigeria to do this, unlike the EU countries. I mean what are we getting back in return? Oil or Minerals? Access to emerging markets?

Or was it just a case of the dopey Irish politicians doing what they do best, falling asleep behind the wheel and screwing up and yet being totally exonerated by our even more blind and daft electorate?

Granted there was employment deficits that needed to be filled but surely to god we could have come up with better solutions that looked after our own interests? Im not looking to argue with anyone and i hope i havent come across as racist and i would welcome your counter arguments but the fact is we are a small country and the morons in charge have basically handed visas out to all in sundry at an unsustainable level, given the lack of population and resources that existed in the country and of which continue to exist to this day. How far into the future could these clowns see in all honesty? Could they see beyond their f**king noses?

Nothing against the Nigerians, but that's just one example. How many other countries did we allow access to at such a level, despite having trade and immigration barriers in place?

Now that Bertie is advising them their own situation might worsen and we might have to increase their immigration level owing to a sense of guilt and duty in the future

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Came across this article on the Sindo today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

Now i dont want to sound like im racist or even anywhere near that border, which could prove a more difficult line to tow then i anticipate, but as an example we have approx 17600 Nigerians living in Ireland and they are sending home €500m a year (average €26000 each).

Now from their point of view i totally understand their motives and their need to move abroad and if push came to shove i would emigrate for a better standard of living, but from our side of things i would love to know how in gods name we allowed a situation to emerge where any 1 nation of people, could possibly be allowed residence at this level, I mean we are not bound by any trade agreements or open marketplace with Nigeria to do this, unlike the EU countries. I mean what are we getting back in return? Oil or Minerals? Access to emerging markets?

Or was it just a case of the dopey Irish politicians doing what they do best, falling asleep behind the wheel and screwing up and yet being totally exonerated by our even more blind and daft electorate?

Granted there was employment deficits that needed to be filled but surely to god we could have come up with better solutions that looked after our own interests? Im not looking to argue with anyone and i hope i havent come across as racist and i would welcome your counter arguments but the fact is we are a small country and the morons in charge have basically handed visas out to all in sundry at an unsustainable level, given the lack of population and resources that existed in the country and of which continue to exist to this day. How far into the future could these clowns see in all honesty? Could they see beyond their f**king noses?

Nothing against the Nigerians, but that's just one example. How many other countries did we allow access to at such a level, despite having trade and immigration barriers in place?

Now that Bertie is advising them their own situation might worsen and we might have to increase their immigration level owing to a sense of guilt and duty in the future

How many people think they're sending money to help a Nigerian prince?
Actually, it'd be interesting to know how they developed that figure.

What are the options? Black list countries that we send more money to than they send us? It's impractical and probably against may treaties designed to provide stability.

The only option is to make sure the education system is such that we don't need to import as much higher earning talent. Still I find it hard to imagine that the average Nigerian has €20k+ a year in surplus.