Black Tie Wedding - Do you give a smaller present?

lazygal · 14-05-2013 04:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not a complaint merely a fact, and his comfort is an issue to me, a big issue, because that's what marriage is really about

My marriage isn't about my husband being comfortable at all times, to the extent that if he might have to wear something which might make him slightly uncomfortable we just don't bother. Likewise, being comfortable 100% of the time isn't a top priority for me.

Why do you need to point out about him being uncomfortable when he never puts himself in that situation in the first place?

tatli_lokma · 14-05-2013 04:08PM

username123 wrote: »

Im a lady and I never wear dresses unless social convention or dress code demands and I feel uncomfortable in one. I also have orthopediac issues from 2 knee surgeries so I cant wear heels without being in agonising pain. Try finding a nice comfortable cocktail dress to wear with flats

I hear ya! Forgot about that - not every woman likes to wear dresses or skirts, particularly some of the older generation. I know an aunt of mine who never wears anything but trousers as she has very bad varacous veins, and wouldn't know what the hell to wear to a black tie event. By saying black tie you are also dictating that ladies must wear a dress.

username123 · 14-05-2013 04:13PM

Little Ted wrote: »

As I said before - I generally tend to allow adults to choose how to dress themselves.

I think you are missing the point. Its not about instructing people what to wear, its about imposing a dress code on an event. Would you have gone to your debs in a pair of jeans? Would you wear a string bikini to a job interview? There are restaurants you wouldnt get into without wearing a jacket and golf clubs with dress codes. In the case of restaurants, nightclubs, golf clubs etc you simply wont get in the door if you dont conform to the dress code. Theres no "they are instructing me what to wear" its "I have to wear this if I want to go in there".

I doubt anyones wedding is as strict, but if they say its black tie, then either wear the tux - or dont go (although as I have already pointed out, its usually just to ensure people dont show up looking scraggy so a dark suit is usually fine).

username123 · 14-05-2013 04:15PM

Little Ted wrote: »

By saying black tie you are also dictating that ladies must wear a dress.

Or a tux - equality and all that

tatli_lokma · 14-05-2013 04:23PM

username123 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. Its not about instructing people what to wear, its about imposing a dress code on an event. Would you have gone to your debs in a pair of jeans? Would you wear a string bikini to a job interview? There are restaurants you wouldnt get into without wearing a jacket and golf clubs with dress codes. In the case of restaurants, nightclubs, golf clubs etc you simply wont get in the door if you dont conform to the dress code. Theres no "they are instructing me what to wear" its "I have to wear this if I want to go in there".

I doubt anyones wedding is as strict, but if they say its black tie, then either wear the tux - or dont go (although as I have already pointed out, its usually just to ensure people dont show up looking scraggy so a dark suit is usually fine).

I think you are missing the point - please explain the difference between instructing what to wear and imposing a dress code, because the difference is a nuance I am missing. If I say 'dress code' then I am advising what is appropriate attire. Surely this is in effect, telling people what to wear??

Also, if I want to go to a nightclub, golf club etc, one would assume that the motivation to attend such an place is borne of my own desire to go there for some reason. It's not like the golf club write to you and say - we want you to be a member, but you can only be one if you wear this outfit. you approach them, you know the rules and you either choose to accept them or not. A wedding is different. You get invited to something supposedly because you are a valued friend/family member, but your presence there is only welcomed if you wear what we specify you wear.

And if you don't really want black tie, you just want is for people to dress up a bit and don't want people looking 'scraggy' then don't specify something you don't really want.

And I still think it is patronising to feel the need to specify to people that they need to dress up for your wedding - surely most people know how to dress appropriately? And the ones who don't aren't going to pay a blind bit of notice to your instruction, so why bother?

pwurple · 14-05-2013 04:35PM

Little Ted wrote: »

And I still think it is patronising to feel the need to specify to be people that they need to dress up for your wedding - surely most people know how to dress appropriately? And the ones who don't aren't going to pay a blind bit of notice to your instruction, so why bother?

Do you feel it patronising to be told what to wear at work as well? Because it's the same thing.

I find dress codes extremely useful. It is unpleasant showing up to an event where you are the muppet dressed down, and everyone else looks swanky. That is the spirit in which they are intended, so as not to let people be humiliated about their clothes.

All the 'I don't wanna be told what to do' tantrums are utter toddler behaviour from my perspective. Go sit on the naughty step until you can behave.

username123 · 14-05-2013 04:37PM

Little Ted wrote: »

I think you are missing the point - please explain the difference between instructing what to wear and imposing a dress code, because the difference is a nuance I am missing. If I say 'dress code' then I am advising what is appropriate attire. Surely this is in effect, telling people what to wear??

Well you can not go, and wear whatever you like at home? Then you won't be under instruction.

I'd assume if you accept an invite you do so because you want to go, same as nite club, golf club whatever. Sure if you don't want to go, don't go.

veetwin · 14-05-2013 05:15PM

username123 wrote: »

There is nothing nice about thinking as you do and then going and pretending that its all grand. Thats just nasty. Id rather people not go if they not only felt like that about me and my plans, but were actually on the internet saying things like that about me, and talking to other invited guests and saying the same thing.

Well firstly I can't really help how I feel about black tie weddings. Personally I think that it is selfish pretentious bulls**t on the part of the couple. However I can appreciate that it is their special day and they are entitled to impose a dress code.

Are you seriously telling me you've never bitten your lip and smiled and kept your feelings to yourself. Are you also suggesting that at every black tie wedding you went to that there wasn't a sizeable proportion grumbling about the dress code nonsense. Hopefully this is an anonymous forum and the couple in question won't guess who I am. Thats what internet forums are for. I would prefer not to tell the couple how I really feel about this. I'm pretty sure I won't be alone in this. If that makes me nasty and two faced well then so be it. Maybe it's as I get older that my tolerance for bulls**t is just not what it used to be:)

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 05:25PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm amazed that people feel entitled to have a say in a couple's private party and its dress code. (Not an opinion about it - a say in the decision and how it's selfish of them). It's their day, their rules.

In fairness, most people have just been giving their opinion, not dictating. As this is a discussion board, those opinions are getting discussed in-depth.

username123 · 14-05-2013 05:26PM

veetwin wrote: »

Maybe it's as I get older that my tolerance for bulls**t is just not what it used to be:)

Yeah, I get that. Just dont go then?

SilverBullet · 14-05-2013 05:39PM

To the OP, if the wedding is away in the countryside away from where you live, would you also give a smaller gift as you have incurred travel expenses??

veetwin · 14-05-2013 05:43PM

SilverBullet wrote: »

To the OP, if the wedding is away in the countryside away from where you live, would you also give a smaller gift as you have incurred travel expenses??

No. My original question is in the thread title and if the extra costs involved in tux hire means that people give a smaller gift? It's just that the thread has grown some legs since then.

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 06:07PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

It seems a lot of people here begrudge others for trying to have a more formal wedding. I really don't see what the issue is.
I enjoy having a bbq in the garden wearing shorts and a vest top, having a bottle of beer with friends. However, I also very much enjoy putting on something very fancy, going somewhere special and sipping on cocktails.
Whats wrong with that? Why do some people resent others for trying to host a more formal event?
Should all weddings just be a few beers and hire a burger van?

No.

Most men will have a suit hanging in their wardrobe. With black tie, you've to rent a tux, as people who be unsure of just turning up in a suit. I think that's the sticking point, weddings are expensive to attend as it is.

pwurple · 14-05-2013 06:13PM

April O Neill wrote: »

No.

Most men will have a suit hanging in their wardrobe. With black tie, you've to rent a tux, as people who be unsure of just turning up in a suit. I think that's the sticking point, weddings are expensive to attend as it is.

And as has already been pointed out, plenty of men have a tux in the wardrobe too. It's just a different type of suit.

For goodness sake, the amount of dresses women have stuffed in there, and blokes grumble about having one work suit and one tux. Two whole outfits in a decade... Oh The Humanity!

username123 · 14-05-2013 06:17PM

April O Neill wrote: »

No.

Most men will have a suit hanging in their wardrobe. With black tie, you've to rent a tux, as people who be unsure of just turning up in a suit. I think that's the sticking point, weddings are expensive to attend as it is.

Its already been said, but if a person just asked the couple in question if they were ok in a dark suit - the answer would probably be yes.

Sometimes you have to travel further for weddings or stay two nights or get a new outfit. It is anyones choice to decline an invite over cost as any other reason.

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 07:22PM

pwurple wrote: »

And as has already been pointed out, plenty of men have a tux in the wardrobe too.

I doubt that.

lazygal · 14-05-2013 07:26PM

April O Neill wrote: »

I doubt that.

Why? Most of our friends and relatives did, and told us they were glad to have a reason to wear them and get really dressed up.

username123 · 14-05-2013 07:45PM

April O Neill wrote: »

I doubt that.

I know a lot of people with them too. My husband doesn't even have a suit mind you. It can depend of what people work at, some people have need of a tux on a regular enough basis to own one.

I know one friend who bought one because he had 4 weddings to attend in one year and it was cheaper than 4 rentals.

ceegee · 14-05-2013 07:46PM

In my experience, people who have black tie weddings tend to be social climbers who are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses than ensuring their family/friends enjoy the occasion. It screams bridezilla to me.

Also the fact that 99% of Irish weddings are held during the afternoon seems to escape those who insist on this "appropriate" formal attire

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 07:53PM

ceegee wrote: »

Also the fact that 99% of Irish weddings are held during the afternoon seems to escape those who insist on this "appropriate" formal attire

That's a great point actually!

pwurple · 14-05-2013 08:22PM

ceegee wrote: »

Also the fact that 99% of Irish weddings are held during the afternoon seems to escape those who insist on this "appropriate" formal attire

It's appropriate if it is written on the invitation. I've been to a wedding where the dress code was hawaiian shirts/dresses (wasn't in hawaii). I've been to one where we had kimonos (not in japan), and I was at one 3 weeks ago where the men all had kippahs (not in a temple). I didn't throw a strop, judge anyone's culture, taste or call anyone a bridezilla.

Whether if it in the afternoon or on the moon is irrelevant.

lazygal · 14-05-2013 08:27PM

ceegee wrote: »

In my experience, people who have black tie weddings tend to be social climbers who are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses than ensuring their family/friends enjoy the occasion. It screams bridezilla to me.

My experience isn't that at all.

I do think guests who go to weddings where they consider the bride and/or groom social climbers, interested in keeping up with the Jones or bridezillas might well consider why they'd bother going to such social occasions in the first place. I wouldn't want to hang around with people who are social climbers or whatever else you might think they are, especially not during a special occasion like a wedding.

ceegee · 14-05-2013 08:34PM

pwurple wrote: »

It's appropriate if it is written on the invitation. I've been to a wedding where the dress code was hawaiian shirts/dresses. I've been to one where we had kimonos, and I was at one 3 weeks ago where the men all had kipas. I didn't throw a strop, judge anyone's culture, taste or call anyone a bridezilla.

Whether if it in the afternoon or on the moon is irrelevant.

Generally (in my experience) people demand black tie because they want their big day to look cultured and posh. Having evening wear as a dress code for a morning/noon event is neither.

My bridezilla comment was based on what ive experienced (both directly and indirectly) - the people who demand black tie seem to be the same asshats who specify cash presents on their invite and are completely self obsessed before/during/after the wedding.

While you could argue people shouldn't go if they think the dress code is ridiculous, it's not always an easy option if your relative/friend is the one marrying the bridezilla/groomzilla

ceegee · 14-05-2013 08:39PM

lazygal wrote: »

My experience isn't that at all.

I do think guests who go to weddings where they consider the bride and/or groom social climbers, interested in keeping up with the Jones or bridezillas might well consider why they'd bother going to such social occasions in the first place. I wouldn't want to hang around with people who are social climbers or whatever else you might think they are, especially not during a special occasion like a wedding.

Attendance is not always that optional in Ireland. You can't tell your boss/coworker that you dont want to go to their wedding without risking it damaging your career, likewise a cousin/brother/sister/nephew getting married isn't something you can skip without getting hassled by other family members.

Sometimes people have to go along with things they dont like in order to avoid a massive family row, pissed off boss etc

PickledLime · 14-05-2013 08:51PM

Wow, this thread is just depressing reading. I'm going to a wedding in a few weeks - know the groom 15 years and the bride 10. Both of them are very close friends.

I can wear what I want (I'm sure I can rustle up a shirt though!), as can the other guests. They wouldn't bat an eyelid if I couldn't give them a present, nor would they care if the other guests couldn't either.

Why? Because they want to have their friends and family with them to celebrate their commitment and love for each other, which is what I thought a wedding was supposed to be about, not some píssing contest over who brought the most expensive gift and who's got the best fitting tux that'll be worn once.

14-05-2013 08:51PM

ceegee wrote: »

In my experience, people who have black tie weddings tend to be social climbers who are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses than ensuring their family/friends enjoy the occasion. It screams bridezilla to me.

Also the fact that 99% of Irish weddings are held during the afternoon seems to escape those who insist on this "appropriate" formal attire

Spot on

username123 · 14-05-2013 09:07PM

ceegee wrote: »

In my experience, people who have black tie weddings tend to be social climbers who are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses than ensuring their family/friends enjoy the occasion. It screams bridezilla to me.

Also the fact that 99% of Irish weddings are held during the afternoon seems to escape those who insist on this "appropriate" formal attire

So what?

Why is the generalisation as to the 'type' of people relevant? Does it matter? Or is it just to pass judgement?

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 09:39PM

pwurple wrote: »

It's appropriate if it is written on the invitation.

No, according to etiquette, after 6pm is appropriate traditionally.

username123 · 14-05-2013 09:41PM

April O Neill wrote: »

No, according to etiquette, after 6pm is appropriate traditionally.

Are you normally gone home from a wedding prior to 6pm?

Any wedding Ive ever been to Im only sitting down for dinner around then. Black tie is dressing for dinner.

April O Neill · 14-05-2013 09:46PM

username123 wrote: »

Are you normally gone home from a wedding prior to 6pm?

Nope. So why do people make the dress code evening wear for an all day event? Black tie is evening wear, not dinner wear.

Black Tie Wedding - Do you give a smaller present?

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