Black Tie Wedding - Do you give a smaller present?

selfish != self-interest

Selfish is a negative thing, it's someone doing something to their own advantage at the expense of another.
Self-interest is more general and neutral. Something that benefits you, but does not directly affect someone else.

Not getting a tux you can't afford is out of self-interest, it's not selfish. Having a ton of money and still purposefully going in inappropriate attire "just because" is selfish.

pwurple wrote: »

but either way the photos are always great afterwards. And it usually means the place will be swanky, the food will be better than average, etc.

I disagree, in my experience a 'Black Tie' wedding gives no more guarantee of swankiness than any other type of wedding. I would say its 50/50. Some black tie events will be more swanky and feel like a lavish occasion, but others will be more like a Debs and not swanky AT ALL!
I think some people have this idea that if they have a black tie event, it will automatically turn it into a suave and sophisticated soiree, akin to a cocktail party at the Plaza in New York. A dickie bow is not that powerful! It takes a lot more than a specific type of suit to create that atmosphere and sadly a lot of people miss that point!

I also disagree with the 'photos looking great' - again this is a hit and miss thing. Some people look great in a tux and evening gowns, other people look so uncomfortable you'd think someone had shoved a cactus up their bum. I think photos which are more informal, and where people look relaxed and happy and enjoying themselves look the best. A lot of people just don't feel comfortable in a tux, and for them it does hamper their enjoyment of the day - at least until about 10pm when the booze has started to flow and people have taken off their ties and relaxed a bit.

bluewolf wrote: »

It's their day, their rules. If you don't like it, don't go.

I agree that you don't have to go to anything to don't want to. But I also think that imposing a dress code on people is a bit OTT. Its a party FFS! You get married and have a party. With the exception of a fancy dress party, I don't know of any other type of gathering of friends and family where a dress code and 'rules' are a pre-requisite of attendance. If you are going to have a dress code like that, then you better get your hand in your pocket and justify it so that it is the type of occasion that warrants it. If its just a normal wedding and you ask everyone to wear black tie then you need a talking to. I've been to my debs 18 years ago, I don't fancy going to another one thanks!

Little Ted wrote: »

nice, thanks for that insult. Or perhaps the couple could get the stick out of their ass, have a relaxed easy going wedding where guests are more likely to relax, have a laugh and enjoyand not be put under undue expense or extra inconvenience to satisfy delusions of grandeur.

Why would you want to go to a wedding where you think you won't be relaxed or have a laugh or the couple have delusions of grandeur? If I thought a wedding would be that annoying to attend I just wouldn't go.

Our wedding was relaxed, people seemed to be laughing and we had no delusions of grandeur. In fact, we made sure everyone had a good time by putting on a free bar and loads of food, not having a long trip between a ceremony venue and reception venue, and putting on a good band. I know people aren't going to be negative but bar check shirt dude, everyone else told us afterwards it was a good bash and a great time was had.

username123 wrote: »

So couples should have the kind of party other people want for their wedding, their wedding that they themselves are paying for? The wedding that they are inviting people to share in, not summoning, inviting?

So because Great Aunt Josie is allergic to flowers perhaps they shouldnt have flowers. Because Billy the on/off bf of one of the grooms sisters doesnt have a job they better not make it a black tie do? Because people might have to drive a few km they better have it in the local?

Why on earth would anyone pay for a party that suits everyone else?

True you can't please everyone, so pernickety things like Aunt Josie's flower allergy is not even comparable. Having said that, if I know aunt Josie has a flower allergy, I will be a considerate host and not seat her next to the floral arrangements!

But I don't get your point about 'it's my party, I'll have the type of party I want - I don't care if my guests enjoy it or not'. I find that baffling. If I have a party - for whatever occasion, be it a wedding, birthday, anniversary, whatever - my main concern as the HOST of the party is to make it as enjoyable for as many people as possible. If my mates are generally the type to enjoy wearing very formal attire, cocktail parties, with a string quartet playing softly in the background and polite conversation, then yeah cool, I'll go the black tie formal route. Personally to me black tie equals either one of two things - either boring and stuffy or bad Debs.

If most of my mates are just ordinary Joe soaps, who will be more likely to enjoy a spot of decent grub, a few drinks, and a bit of a dance, then I am not going to put a dress code on them and make them feel like stuffed shirt. I am going to say, 'here, we're getting hitched, we'd love you to be there, I hope you can make it' put on a decent spread, give them a few jars, and think nothing more than 'I hope they can make it', not 'I hope they dress appropriately!'. I allow grown adults to choose how to dress themselves as a general rule.

It's all well and good saying 'don't go', but that is not always an option. You could very well be bitched and moaned at for not going. And just cos I don't relish the idea of the reception, doesn't mean I don't want to see the actual important part - the ceremony. So fine, I don't have to go to the reception, but if I would like to share in the most important part, the vows, then I still need to fork out for a tux/formal dress as it is part of the dress code.

As I said, I don't know of any other comparable social occasion where a dress code imposed on guests. I think people need to check themselves, really.

Ah come on, no one is saying have a few beers and a burger van. And I don't begrudge you dressing up and sipping cocktails. But I'm not a fan of imposing dress codes on guests to things like weddings. I think as a host, it is inconsiderate unless you know that the majority of the guests would enjoy something like that.

I blame this whole 'its my special day, it has to be the most specialist of all special days because its my wedding' prima-donna nonsence that you hear so much of. As I said, if you know that most of your mates would enjoy a formal affair, that's fair enough. But if you know that about half your family and a good few of your mates won't enjoy it, and further would be put to additional expense because of it, then it is just very self centred.

In the past I have been to 3 black tie weddings. One was a total embarrasment, because somehow, the couple we all know and love seemed to have disappeared and instead we had this phoney pair in their place, who seemed to think they were going to recreate a scene out of sex and the city by sticking a load of their mates in monkey suits. Half of his side of the family, went all out and dressed the part, but by no means 'acted the part' and were literally like a gang of scangers in bow ties. Hence why so many people felt they were not being true to themselves and had delusions of grandeur. It was like a bad debs. The second was a close family friend, who is very much the black-tie, cocktails sort of girl, they are quite reserved and it was quite a high profile affair. When I saw the invitation say 'black tie' I groaned inwardly, but sucked it up because, in truth I was in the minority, most of the people would enjoy a formal event, and for that reason I would never expect anything else. I wanted to share in the celebrations because I think a lot of the bride. The third wedding, was just exactly like a hundred other standard hotel reception weddings, except for some reason the couple requested black tie. There was nothing that justified it, half her male relatives were visibly uncomfortable in their tuxes, and the whole black tie thing didn't add anything to the occasion. It was commented by several 'what's the point of the whole black tie thing??'.

I always thought the key to hosting a good party was to be a considerate host. Guess I was wrong.

Why is it called "black tie" anyways? It should be called a "don't wear a tie, wear a Bow tie" event

Does black tie mean the Bow tie must be black?

Deleted User wrote: »

Where did I complain?

You said your husband is uncomforable in black tie, but you don't go to those weddings so his comfort isn't an issue, is it? You've also said people want you to 'conform to their dress code', again not an issue for you so why mention it, as you don't go to such weddings?

If you decline those invitations as a matter of course, why bother giving out about being uncomfortable or having to conform, when you do neither?

pwurple wrote: »

You can't think of a single thing with a dress code? Come on now. There is a dress code for everything in life.

Most nightclubs in the country have a dress code. Plenty of pubs with bouncers also. How about events like PR photocalls, or the opera. Taking it beyond the blatently obvious, you wear PJ's in bed, workwear to work, uniforms if you are a student, your naughtiest undies for a shag.

Every single aspect of our lives already has a dress code. You wear what is appropriate when you're a grown up. Sometimes it is written down for you (like work or weddings) and sometimes social convention dictates.

No need to be facetious. As you rightly suggest, a dress code is implied as part of general societies rules as to what is acceptable for certain occasions. But a social family occasion is not even comparable to half the things you mention. You are just splitting hairs.

And if we take your point as a given, then this only further strengthens my point - generally people know the correct attire to wear for most occasions. It is very unusual that someone will turn up to a wedding in a tracksuit or a pair of jeans. And for me, even if they did, as long as they are clean and tidy and comfortable with what they are wearing, I wouldn't really care. Imposing a dress code at a wedding is a bit like saying 'I don't trust you to dress up adequately enough for my special day'.

And personally, I think someone in their own suit, which fits them well and they wear well because they are comfortable in, is infinately more impressive than someone in a cheap, polyester badly fitting tux, who is clearly only wearing it cos they have to.

As I said before - I generally tend to allow adults to choose how to dress themselves. I also know that the vast majority of my family and friend know how to dress appropriately for the occasion, so I don't feel any need to instruct them on the matter. There are of course a few partners of friends who somehow always seem to get it wrong, but that is not going to change because I tell them to go black tie. They will still be badly/inapproriately dressed, but they will just be badly dressed in a tux or evening dress. And anyway, just because I don't like their choice of clothing doesn't mean I don't want them to attend my wedding/party.