Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Dempsey · 08-05-2013 08:09PM

Lennon has alot to learn yet and he's smart enough to know it i think. Tactics/Team selections on poor pitches comes up short more often than not, match preparation is very suspect. Jury out on developing youth prospects aswell for me

Lennonist · 08-05-2013 08:15PM

ColeTrain wrote: »

Strong rumours once again that Kevin Doyle will be in the hoops next season.

What does everyone think about this?

Doyle is an option provided he doesn't cost too much in terms of transfer fee and wages. He's a good target man that appears to have lost his way a bit in the last couple of seasons. Playing up front for Celtic in the CL, could be the opportunity and challenge he needs to make the most of the rest of his career now. I would take a chance on him if he's available on the right terms.

ColeTrain · 09-05-2013 12:45AM

Lennonist wrote: »

Doyle is an option provided he doesn't cost too much in terms of transfer fee and wages. He's a good target man that appears to have lost his way a bit in the last couple of seasons. Playing up front for Celtic in the CL, could be the opportunity and challenge he needs to make the most of the rest of his career now. I would take a chance on him if he's available on the right terms.

That's exactly it for me. I think he could do a job for us, I've watched him enough times for Ireland to know that he's a good player who has had a tough couple of seasons. I'd be happy to have him in the squad.

PauloMN · 09-05-2013 07:18AM

Hope you are both right on Lenny, I agree that he should wait for the right job to come along but I wonder would he be able to resist any offer from the bright lights of the Premiership.

I see this in the papers this morning, hopefully it's bollocks:
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/398142/EXCLUSIVE-Celtic-manager-Neil-Lennon-in-frame-for-Everton-job

Much as he has his faults, I'd hate to see him go at this early stage, I think he has a lot more success to come his way as Celtic manager. I think we underestimate how much CL experience is valued down south by clubs, especially those outside of the big 4 or 5. Getting Celtic out of a CL group like we had is a phenomenal achievement, and obviously will be noticed by clubs looking for a new manager.

As for Doyle, yes at the right price. No at silly Premiership money though.

lubo_moravcik · 09-05-2013 10:05AM

I think Lennon would jump at the opportunity but to be honest I can't see Everton wanting him

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 10:25AM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

I think Lennon would jump at the opportunity but to be honest I can't see Everton wanting him

Why would he want to go to a club that have a stoestring budget in comparison to those that Everton consistently found competing against under Moyes? Not an ideal scenario for him. No doubt that a few key players will leave Everton in the wake of Moyes leaving aswell and no guarantees that money would be ploughed back into player investments. Again, not an ideal scenario for him. I dont see the attraction to the job for him tbh

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 10:31AM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

I think Lennon would jump at the opportunity but to be honest I can't see Everton wanting him

I don't think he would go if he was offered it. It would be the wrong move for him right now, he's still learning his trade and if he stays at Celtic and gets good consistent results in Europe over the next few years, he'll get bigger offers eventually.

David Moyes did his best at Everton and they still won nothing. There's a glass ceiling at Everton and if anything they'll probably slide back the way over the next few seasons, back to mid table mediocrity and relegation battles that they were in before Moyes arrived, and even in some of the years he was there in charge.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 02:12PM

If anyone here genuinely thinks Lennon would turn down Everton they are deluded, the only question is would Everton want Neil, the money suggests Martinez is their man.

Everton are often described aswell as having a shoe string budget, and while yes compared to the Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City's of this world they have, their not exactly the poverty stricken club that they are often portrayed as, they did spend £15m on Fellani not that long ago.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 02:25PM

premierstone wrote: »

If anyone here genuinely thinks Lennon would turn down Everton they are deluded, the only question is would Everton want Neil, the money suggests Martinez is their man.

Everton are often described aswell as having a shoe string budget, and while yes compared to the Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City's of this world they have, their not exactly the poverty stricken club that they are often portrayed as, they did spend £15m on Fellani not that long ago.

Deluded? What evidence is there to suggest he'd want the Everton job?

They signed Fellaini 5 years ago, thats a long time in football, as a highly rated 20 y/o for Moyes after 6 successful seasons running the club, you really think an unproven manager in the EPL is going to get anything near that to spend on an individual at Everton now? Everton's financial difficulties since signing him are well documented.

Coillte_Bhoy · 09-05-2013 02:58PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Deluded? What evidence is there to suggest he'd want the Everton job?

They signed Fellaini 5 years ago, thats a long time in football, as a highly rated 20 y/o for Moyes after 6 successful seasons running the club, you really think an unproven manager in the EPL is going to get anything near that to spend on an individual at Everton now? Everton's financial difficulties since signing him are well documented.

In fairness thats a silly argument, you could equally ask what evidence is there he doesnt want it. fwiw i certainly think he'd be tempted by it, he may not get a similar offer again. There is no guarantee we are going to be in Europe next season and even if we are i cannot see us having anything like the succes we did this season..And the spl holds no challenge for the forseeable future

All opinions of course, just my tuppence worth

premierstone · 09-05-2013 03:13PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Deluded? What evidence is there to suggest he'd want the Everton job?

They signed Fellaini 5 years ago, thats a long time in football, as a highly rated 20 y/o for Moyes after 6 successful seasons running the club, you really think an unproven manager in the EPL is going to get anything near that to spend on an individual at Everton now? Everton's financial difficulties since signing him are well documented.

No evidence whatsoever, similar really to there been no evidence that he would take the Barca, Real, Bayern etc jobs but I think we can safely assume Lennon is a guy with ambitions and a Top 6 team in the EPL is sooo far removed from the annual champions elect of a one team SPL and the possibility of the odd run in Europe that I would have thought it was obvious he would be in the very least interested.

My point is that this ''well documented'' financial difficulties are over exaggerated and I can't see what bigger job he is going to be offered in the foreseeable, and it's not as if the Scottish Football authorities have made him feel very welcome in Scotland, with the crap they have been slinging at him and the downright petty victimisation if I was him I'd be gone at the first opportunity.

PauloMN · 09-05-2013 03:21PM

Interesting the different viewpoints on it. I'm not overly concerned, but there's a part of me thinking he might just go with an offer from the likes of Everton. While they are no Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, they are a bigger side than a lot of the EPL dross and would be a big move for him.

Had we not had the European run we've just had, I don't think I'd be the slightest bit concerned tbh. But think about how many British (that's British in the managerial sense of the word before any of the dafties have a go at me) managers with very valuable CL experience could be picked up by a team like Everton..... not many.

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 03:21PM

premierstone wrote: »

If anyone here genuinely thinks Lennon would turn down Everton they are deluded, the only question is would Everton want Neil, the money suggests Martinez is their man.

Everton are often described aswell as having a shoe string budget, and while yes compared to the Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City's of this world they have, their not exactly the poverty stricken club that they are often portrayed as, they did spend £15m on Fellani not that long ago.

Everton will likely lose their best players and head into a transition period where they may struggle in the bottom half of the table and end up in relegation dogfights again. Anyone who takes the job after Moyes could find themselves sacked in a season or two and their rep plummeting as a result.

Lennon is still learning his trade but has great prospects as a manager if he can keep Celtic progressing in Europe and regularly involved at the CL Group Stages. I think he'd be daft to take the Everton job if it was offered to him, would be the wrong move for him right now.

Ferguson showed him the way, he remained at Aberdeen until the offer from Man United came along and declined offers from Spurs, Arsenal and others at the time until he got offered the big opportunity to progress his career at United. Lennon could do the same for himself if he plays his cards right and achieves domestic and relative European success at Celtic over a 4 or 5 year period. He's still a novice in the managerial game, moving to Everton right now would be the wrong move for him in my view.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 03:22PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

In fairness thats a silly argument, you could equally ask what evidence is there he doesnt want it. fwiw i certainly think he'd be tempted by it, he may not get a similar offer again. There is no guarantee we are going to be in Europe next season and even if we are i cannot see us having anything like the succes we did this season..And the spl holds no challenge for the forseeable future

All opinions of course, just my tuppence worth

He said its deluded to think that Lennon wouldnt take the Everton job if offered despite there being several reasons to why he's better off where he is for now.

Its not a silly argument, he said he's not going anywhere unless its a really good offer from a big club. An overachieving club on limited resources isnt what he'd consider a "big club" in interviews. Lennon has stated what would tempt him away from Celtic already, Everton isnt it imo

For a league that possesses no challenge for the foreseeable future, he's made hard work of it and his inexperience at certain aspects of management still clearly evident. Whats worse is that he's starting to defend these shortcomings as opposed to his forthright views on poor performances earlier in his Celtic career.

If he's as smart as I think he is, he'll stay and learn more because he realises his shortcomings. If he's desperate to jump onto the EPL managerial merry-go-round with Everton as suggested, he wont last long at all because he doesnt have the required skillset for that job.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 03:34PM

Lennonist wrote: »

Everton will likely lose their best players and head into a transition period where they may struggle in the bottom half of the table and end up in relegation dogfights again. Anyone who takes the job after Moyes could find themselves sacked in a season or two and their rep plummeting as a result.

Lennon is still learning his trade but has great prospects as a manager if he can keep Celtic progressing in Europe and regularly involved at the CL Group Stages. I think he'd be daft to take the Everton job if it was offered to him, would be the wrong move for him right now.

Ferguson showed him the way, he remained at Aberdeen until the offer from Man United came along and declined offers from Spurs, Arsenal and others at the time until he got offered the big opportunity to progress his career at United. Lennon could do the same for himself if he plays his cards right and achieves domestic and relative European success at Celtic over a 4 or 5 year period. He's still a novice in the managerial game, moving to Everton right now would be the wrong move for him in my view.

Agreed that they are likely to loose at least Baines and Fellani who will both follow Moyes IMO, but surely if that happens it means that the new manager will have £50m+ to spend on new players, thus negating the whole shoe string budget theory.

The comparison with Ferguson and Aberdeen is a little bit apples and oranges for me, firstly Scottish football and where it stood in the scheme of things back then and where it stands now are so far removed it is not funny. The gulf of class that exists now between teh EPL and the SPL is huge.

Secondly there is absolutely no comparing the financial variances between the two leagues of then and now. As I said £15m on a single player, what will Lennon be allocated at Celtic?

Aberdeen won a European Super Cup under Fergie, does anyone here envisage a Scotish team ever doing that again in our lifetime?

premierstone · 09-05-2013 03:38PM

Dempsey wrote: »

If he's desperate to jump onto the EPL managerial merry-go-round with Everton as suggested, he wont last long at all because he doesnt have the required skillset for that job.

This I agree with and he will become teh new Alec McCleish.

I get what you are saying Dempsey and that he would be better off maybe serving a few more seasons at Celtic, but there are very very few young ambitious managers that have ever turned down a job because they weren't ready. Remember he took the Celtic job with zero experience and despite the impression I may have given here that is a pretty damn big job, especially for a rookie, Neil doesn't strike me as the sort that shirks a challenge.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 03:39PM

You are making an assumption that all that money will be made available, it wont as Everton have a sizable debt to service. You think they are going to allow Lennon to blow £50m in his 1st season. Thats deluded considering the policy implemented with Moyes!

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 03:44PM

premierstone wrote: »

This I agree with and he will become teh new Alec McCleish.

I get what you are saying Dempsey and that he would be better off maybe serving a few more seasons at Celtic, but there are very very few young ambitious managers that have ever turned down a job because they weren't ready. Remember he took the Celtic job with zero experience and despite the impression I may have given here that is a pretty damn big job, especially for a rookie, Neil doesn't strike me as the sort that shirks a challenge.

Lennon was a highly successful player, coach and reserve manager for Celtic before he got the top job much like Guardiola for Barca. He got alot of patience from Celtic fans, we have seen some embarrassing results under his management, he wont get that slack anywhere else.

Moyes was told by Alex Ferguson to turn down the Sheffield Wednesday job (SW were midtable in the EPL at the time) and wait. He did and he was offered the Everton job a year or two later. I hope he gets the same advice from the managers he regularly seeks advice from.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 03:50PM

I'm sure they had money earmarked for a transfer kitty prior to Moyes departure, and the fees obtained for both Baines and Fellani will be huge a 26 year old and 28 year old both in their prime for their respective positions. Even if the new manager was to only recieve half of that together with the assigned kitty for 2013/14 it would be a far greater budget than most of Everton's opponents next year.

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 03:53PM

premierstone wrote: »

Agreed that they are likely to loose at least Baines and Fellani who will both follow Moyes IMO, but surely if that happens it means that the new manager will have £50m+ to spend on new players, thus negating the whole shoe string budget theory.

The comparison with Ferguson and Aberdeen is a little bit apples and oranges for me, firstly Scottish football and where it stood in the scheme of things back then and where it stands now are so far removed it is not funny. The gulf of class that exists now between teh EPL and the SPL is huge.

Secondly there is absolutely no comparing the financial variances between the two leagues of then and now. As I said £15m on a single player, what will Lennon be allocated at Celtic?

Aberdeen won a European Super Cup under Fergie, does anyone here envisage a Scotish team ever doing that again in our lifetime?

He wouldn't have to win a European trophy in this day and age at Celtic to progress his reputation, regular appearances and decent results in the CL Group Stages would do that for him, and that is achievable at Celtic. He would also be gaining further experience at the same time, which would result in him being better prepared for a move to a top EPL club if the offer eventually came along, which it would if he can make Celtic a fixture at the CL Group Stage level. I don't see him going to Everton right now, would be the wrong move for both parties.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 04:24PM

Lennonist wrote: »

He wouldn't have to win a European trophy in this day and age at Celtic to progress his reputation, regular appearances and decent results in the CL Group Stages would do that for him, and that is achievable at Celtic. He would also be gaining further experience at the same time, which would result in him being better prepared for a move to a top EPL club if the offer eventually came along, which it would if he can make Celtic a fixture at the CL Group Stage level. I don't see him going to Everton right now, would be the wrong move for both parties.

oh I realise that re the European trophy, I was just re-iterating how far the Scotish game has fallen in the intervening 30 years.

I also agree that it would be the wrong move for both parties at this time, but my original point being that if Everton were to offer the position, I can in no way envisage Lenny rebuking that offer.

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 04:33PM

premierstone wrote: »

oh I realise that re the European trophy, I was just re-iterating how far the Scotish game has fallen in the intervening 30 years.

I also agree that it would be the wrong move for both parties at this time, but my original point being that if Everton were to offer the position, I can in no way envisage Lenny rebuking that offer.

I disagree. If he is using his head he'll turn them down in the event that Everton offered him the job now. He needs to progress his career further at Celtic and offers from bigger clubs would arrive eventually if he wants to go to England.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 05:03PM

Lennonist wrote: »

I disagree. If he is using his head he'll turn them down in the event that Everton offered him the job now. He needs to progress his career further at Celtic and offers from bigger clubs would arrive eventually if he wants to go to England.

Do you really think so? What is a bigger offer? Chelsea, Man utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool and thats it, which one of them is going to offer Lennon a job at anytime nevermind in the forseeable future?

Martin O'Neill was the most successfull manager at Parkhead since the great one and he has since managed Aston Villa and Sunderland and he's next job will be a step down from that again, staying at Celtic and trotting out uncontested SPL's will not get Lenny the big job some here are imagining, he will have to serve he's time with a mid table EPL team at some stage no matter what he achieves with us.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 05:14PM

premierstone wrote: »

Do you really think so? What is a bigger offer? Chelsea, Man utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool and thats it, which one of them is going to offer Lennon a job at anytime nevermind in the forseeable future?

Martin O'Neill was the most successfull manager at Parkhead since the great one and he has since managed Aston Villa and Sunderland and he's next job will be a step down from that again, staying at Celtic and trotting out uncontested SPL's will not get Lenny the big job some here are imagining, he will have to serve he's time with a mid table EPL team at some stage no matter what he achieves with us.

No and neither does Lennon.

Neil Lennon wrote:

“If I was going to leave Celtic I would go to one of the big clubs but they’re all on lock-down pretty much with the good managers they have already.

“It’s difficult to break into that pack anyway."

Doesnt sound like he's ready to jump to a mid table EPL club yet. Maybe when he wants another challenge he'll give it a crack but I dont think thats the case yet.

premierstone · 09-05-2013 05:23PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Doesnt sound like he's ready to jump to a mid table EPL club yet. Maybe when he wants another challenge he'll give it a crack but I dont think thats the case yet.

I certainly hope you are right Dempsey as I think Neil is the right man at Parkhead right now and I wouldn't fancy trying to replace him.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 05:34PM

premierstone wrote: »

I certainly hope you are right Dempsey as I think Neil is the right man at Parkhead right now and I wouldn't fancy trying to replace him.

The media will probably say Jackie McNamara, Roberto Martinez, Owen Coyle, Henrik Larsson, Mark Hughes and every other ex-Celt and manager thats been flung off the merry-go-round

I'd consider Ole Gunnar Solskjaer if he's interested.

There is life after Lennon :pac:

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 06:03PM

premierstone wrote: »

Do you really think so? What is a bigger offer? Chelsea, Man utd, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool and thats it, which one of them is going to offer Lennon a job at anytime nevermind in the forseeable future?

Martin O'Neill was the most successfull manager at Parkhead since the great one and he has since managed Aston Villa and Sunderland and he's next job will be a step down from that again, staying at Celtic and trotting out uncontested SPL's will not get Lenny the big job some here are imagining, he will have to serve he's time with a mid table EPL team at some stage no matter what he achieves with us.

It's what he can achieve in Europe that will determine if he gets an offer from the big clubs in England. It all depends on how much Celtic achieve under him. If he can establish Celtic as a team that can get results against the big guns of European football on a regular basis over a few years, then I reckon he could get offers from big clubs on that sort of record. He comes across well in the media, I reckon he's got a big enough persona to make it to the very top if he continues to improve as a manager.

Hopefully things will change in the structure of European football that he or others can get to the very top at Celtic anyway;). You never know what's around the corner, I thought Alex Ferguson was going to be at Old Trafford forever.

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 06:51PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22464215

With all the talk about Alex Ferguson retiring and David Moyes leaving Everton and taking over at Man United, the story of Stan Petrov retiring has been overshadowed. Hopefully he'll make a complete recovery from leukaemia.

Lennonist · 09-05-2013 07:32PM

Neil Lennon now 6to4 favourite with Paddy Powers for the Everton job, hopefully that's just the bookies trying to drum up business. It can often happen that different names are moved up and down the list in speculative markets like this in order to attract money from punters.

Dempsey · 09-05-2013 08:12PM

Lennonist wrote: »

Neil Lennon now 6to4 favourite with Paddy Powers for the Everton job, hopefully that's just the bookies trying to drum up business. It can often happen that different names are moved up and down the list in speculative markets like this in order to attract money from punters.

Other Bookies have Lennon longer and other shorter. They are just looking for business at this stage

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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