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Why we can't have a rational conversation about abortion

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Comments

  • #422
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    kfk wrote: »
    Even irresponsible adult women that become pregnant?

    Personally, I would say yes. Sort of amusing that you only label the woman as irresponsible. We already women to go to England, why should we engage in this unhealthy idea of outsourcing issues that our government aren't comfortable with dealing with. How is it fair on a woman that has been raped or has a fatal foetal abnormality that she has to travel to the uk?


  • #423
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Threads merged.


  • #424
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    wildlifeboy wrote: »
    thats his blinkered castlebar catholic upbringing right there! Abortion should be allowed for everyone regardless of the scenario!

    and it's our letting them think they can dictate to us in this way that is the nub of the issue, he wouldn't dare come out with this sh1te for governance if he thought the people would turn on him

    shame on us all because as i've said before we have all got the blood of Savita on our hands for not letting government know they work for us, should legislate when we vote for it but just fall back to sheep instead of standing up for ourselves


  • #425
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    kfk wrote: »
    Even irresponsible adult women that become pregnant?

    On their own? Now, that's even more Catholic..


  • #426
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    PunkFreud wrote: »
    The woman makes one mistake, so she should live with it for the rest of her life. If a man makes a similar "mistake", he doesn't bear the consequences.

    Seems fair :rolleyes:

    Yes, he does. It's called Child Support


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  • #427
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    To be honest I give it about maybe another 20 years before enough of the population is ok with abortion on demand up I a certain time limit that it stops being an explosive political issue anymore.

    But until then, in terms of pregnancy from rape, is it not a reasonable alternative for victims to take the morning after pill as a precaution? Not saying it should be, but in the short term until the political demographic changes, it's an easy alternative no?

    It doesn't always work. You can't always get it in time as well and it may be less effective so you could still get pregnant. But yes they should take it as a precaution.


  • #428
    kfk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭kfk


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Did I say that?

    No. What has a catholic upbringing got to do with it? I would be fairly sure that most people in the country had a catholic upbringing.


  • #429
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    kfk wrote: »
    No. What has a catholic upbringing got to do with it? I would be fairly sure that most people in the country had a catholic upbringing.

    Stop putting words in my mouth, I didnt say anything of the sort. Bit of a chip on your shoulder there.


  • #430
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    kfk wrote: »
    No. What has a catholic upbringing got to do with it? I would be fairly sure that most people in the country had a catholic upbringing.

    I thought Mary Robinson was Church Of Ireland


  • #431
    maximoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,210 ✭✭✭maximoose


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Yeah great arguement there. Call an opinion silly.

    What difference does it make how the child was conceived? Very catholic. If a woman wants an abortion she should be able to have one. This is meant to be a modern European country.

    Ahhhh my mistake. I read your post as - What difference does it make if she was raped or not, she shouldn't be allowed an abortion :pac:


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  • #432
    kfk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭kfk


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Stop putting words in my mouth, I didnt say anything of the sort. Bit of a chip on your shoulder there.

    No offence meant. I didn't suggest you said anything! I just thought you (like many others) were trying to suggest that there was something wrong with being Catholic.


  • #433
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    kfk wrote: »
    No offence meant. I didn't suggest you said anything! I just thought you (like many others) were trying to suggest that there was something wrong with being Catholic.

    Anyone can believe whatever they want. It's when those who don't share those beliefs are forced to abide by them that problems occur.


  • #434
    kfk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭kfk


    Nodin wrote: »
    Anyone can believe whatever they want. It's when those who don't share those beliefs are forced to abide by them that problems occur.

    What beliefs are you talking about? Abortion? The catholic church has nothing to do with making abortion laws!


  • #435
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    How can we force a referendum? One is definitely and obviously needed. The last one on this issue was twenty years ago; there is an entire generation which has never had a chance to have their say.


  • #436
    TheLastMohican
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    Why are people listening to the Church/Government on this issue? If you want to have a termination, go and have one. I think everyone could raise the cost of a flight to England and the procedure there.


  • #437
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    kfk wrote: »
    What beliefs are you talking about? Abortion? The catholic church has nothing to do with making abortion laws!

    *sigh


  • #438
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    Why are people listening to the Church/Government on this issue? If you want to have a termination, go and have one. I think everyone could raise the cost of a flight to England and the procedure there.


    Why should people have to leave for another legislation to have a medical procedure? Thats the problem, primarily.


  • #439
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    Why are people listening to the Church/Government on this issue? If you want to have a termination, go and have one. I think everyone could raise the cost of a flight to England and the procedure there.

    According to the Marie Stopes website, abortion can cost from 494 pounds (medical abortion) up to 1901 pounds (surgical abortion). I know a lot of people wouldn't be able to raise that kind of money.


  • #440
    kfk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭kfk


    Nodin wrote: »
    *sigh

    I may be wrong. Maybe the catholic church does pass state laws. Enlighten me please.


  • #441
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    kfk wrote: »
    I may be wrong. Maybe the catholic church does pass state laws. Enlighten me please.


    The states laws are heavily influenced directly and indirectly by the catholic church eg contraception, divorce, homosexuality, abortion. This is done by the indirect influence of indoctrination and direct lobbying.

    Have you never noticed direct lobbying by the church?


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  • #442
    TheLastMohican
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why should people have to leave for another legislation to have a medical procedure? Thats the problem, primarily.

    I'm not trying to be flippant, but if you want to see Man Utd (live) play at Old Trafford - you've got to go over there


  • #443
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    I'm not trying to be flippant, but if you want to see Man Utd (live) play at Old Trafford - you've got to go over there


    Right -

    "I want to see Man Utd V Real live"

    vs

    "The Foetus in my body has no brain, will not grow one and will be born dead in a few months time"

    Have a think on it.


  • #444
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Nodin wrote: »
    The states laws are heavily influenced directly and indirectly by the catholic church eg contraception, divorce, homosexuality, abortion. This is done by the indirect influence of indoctrination and direct lobbying.

    Have you never noticed direct lobbying by the church?

    Many people/groups/individuals lobby government over many things. It's not some conspiracy theory involving the church trying to get you. Your thirst for thousands of abortions on demand isn't palatable for normal everyday folk. That's the reality.


  • #445
    TheLastMohican
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    LizT wrote: »
    According to the Marie Stopes website, abortion can cost from 494 pounds (medical abortion) up to 1901 pounds (surgical abortion). I know a lot of people wouldn't be able to raise that kind of money.

    Yes I realise that raising money can be hard. But the WHO stated that Poland (which isn't exactly Brunei) has laws as strict as Ireland, yet has the highest abortion rate in Europe. How do they do it? There are more terminations there than there are births.


  • #446
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    squod wrote: »
    Many people/groups/individuals lobby government over many things. It's not some conspiracy theory involving the church trying to get you. Your thirst for thousands of abortions on demand isn't palatable for normal everyday folk. That's the reality.

    Sorry, maybe I'm picking you up wrong but are you suggesting those who support abortion on demand are abnormal in some way? :confused:


  • #447
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    squod wrote: »
    Many people/groups/individuals lobby government over many things. It's not some conspiracy theory involving the church trying to get you. Your thirst for thousands of abortions on demand isn't palatable for normal everyday folk. That's the reality.


    Well, conspiracy theory would imply its not true, whereas we know for a fact they are lobbying and lobbying hard. You'll also find that other groups tend not to be able to claim they speak with the authority of the almighty.

    By the way - What did you mean by the "dark ages" and how is abortion going to 'drag us there'?


  • #448
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    Why are people listening to the Church/Government on this issue? If you want to have a termination, go and have one. I think everyone could raise the cost of a flight to England and the procedure there.

    Why should they have to?
    how would you like it if you were told that you could only have a genuine medical procedure you either needed or wanted, if you were willing to travel to another country to obtain it.


  • #449
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    Yes I realise that raising money can be hard. But the WHO stated that Poland (which isn't exactly Brunei) has laws as strict as Ireland, yet has the highest abortion rate in Europe. How do they do it? There are more terminations there than there are births.


    ...maybe - bear with me now - BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRAVEL ABROAD AND PAY PRIVATELY FOR IT. Because they have it on their health service.


  • #450
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    I'm not trying to be flippant, but if you want to see Man Utd (live) play at Old Trafford - you've got to go over there

    When has watching Man Utd live ever helped a woman with an unviable pregnancy, or a pregnancy caused by rape?:confused:


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  • #451
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    Why are people listening to the Church/Government on this issue? If you want to have a termination, go and have one. I think everyone could raise the cost of a flight to England and the procedure there.
    That's right. Women whose health is seriously impacted by pregnancy should get out of their hospital beds and go to England. Women who have discovered the foetus is incompatible with life should get on a plane, go away from all their family, friends and support and be induced in a foreign country, where they will have to leave the remains of the child to be disposed of by strangers, then get back on a plane and fly home. Sure it's only flights + accommodation + €600-€1000 for the procedure.

    Do you pay attention to what you write, or are you actually naive enough that you think it's as simple as getting on a plane?


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