Gun On the Street

Nino Brown · 05-05-2013 07:44PM

And, if I remember correctly gun ownership is pretty much mandatory in Switzerland and it has an extremely low crime rate

SeaDaily · 05-05-2013 07:50PM

Pug160 wrote: »

I think a lot of gun deaths in America are suicides as well. That would up the stats a lot too. But there's no denying that the overall rate is pretty high. The UK does have a low rate. At the end of the day, people are going to murder. There's no possible way of wrapping us up in cotton wool. Cars and vans have been used as deadly weapons. The GP Harold Shipman murdered hundreds of people without a gun. There are 14000 knife crime victims in the UK every year. Guns are only one tool - a very dangerous and deadly tool admittedly - but one of many.

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 05-05-2013 07:54PM

How dare he stand up for his rights and talk back to his majesty the policeman.

miller50841 · 05-05-2013 07:56PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

I suppose that is a debate for another day.

I do believe the Irish police force should be armed and at a minimum have tazers. Most other forces are armed and I am very surprised that the British still aren't fully armed.

I think we are lucky though that the gun's aren't as easy as the states to get. Too many crazies going around:)

aaakev · 05-05-2013 07:57PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

I disagree. In my mind it is wrong that he can carry a gun in public. Just because millions of Americans are doing it doesn't make it right. Very weak argument.

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

Hownowcow · 05-05-2013 08:00PM

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

How dare he stand up for his rights and talk back to his majesty the policeman.

Everyone should be able to stand up for their rights. However, in normal circumstances, this should be done in a reasonable manner. Where there are rights there are also duties. Behaving in an unreasonable manner just irritates.

miller50841 · 05-05-2013 08:02PM

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

Your not on a street walking around with lots of others around.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing someone up the mountains or in fields etc.

The part where most would worry is a person with a firearm in a busy public place I have to say would scare a lot especially the way things are going.

Pug160 · 05-05-2013 08:02PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

It's not an argument, it's reality. There are 14000 knife crime incidents in the UK every year. Guns make killing very easy but if someone wants to kill they will.

What's to stop someone looking at manuals on the internet showing them how to make relatively simple and crude bombs? If someone is that intent on harming others they will. Not having a gun may put some people off, but not everybody - far from it.

SeaDaily · 05-05-2013 08:03PM

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

To be honest, yes I find it sort of off-putting that there would be people walking around with guns. But I'd hope that if you were stopped by the gardaí and asked to produce the necessary documentation for the gun you would deal with the situation respectfully not like the prick in the video.

aaakev · 05-05-2013 08:06PM

miller50841 wrote: »

Your not on a street walking around with lots of others around.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing someone up the mountains or in fields etc.

The part where most would worry is a person with a firearm in a busy public place I have to say would scare a lot especially the way things are going.

Yes i am, i said i walk along some main roads. Some are ring roads where a fair few people walk their dogs, jog or cycle and i walk along them from one field to another and often pass alot of people on my way

SeaDaily · 05-05-2013 08:10PM

aaakev wrote: »

Yes i am, i said i walk along some main roads. Some are ring roads where a fair few people walk their dogs, jog or cycle and i walk along them from one field to another and often pass alot of people on my way

What he means is your not in a public place like O'Connell or somewhere like that. If it's obvious that you are using the rifle for hunting then obviously it's not the same as if you were randomly carrying around with you when you were out and about.

aaakev · 05-05-2013 08:11PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

To be honest, yes I find it sort of off-putting that there would be people walking around with guns. But I'd hope that if you were stopped by the gardaí and asked to produce the necessary documentation for the gun you would deal with the situation respectfully not like the prick in the video.

Why? Im clearly not up to no good, im wearing a camo jacket, combats and boots and have a hunting rifle on my shoulder.

Just curious, what do you mean by off putting?

Well in this country i have no right to own a gun so i have to comply with a guards request for id and licence so that wouldnt be an issue

miller50841 · 05-05-2013 08:13PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

What he means is your not in a public place like O'Connell or somewhere like that. If it's obvious that you are using the rifle for hunting then obviously it's not the same as if you were randomly carrying around with you when you were out and about.

Thanks seaDaily I couldn't have said it better myself.:)

I meant to say that but drifted off there:pac:

Odysseus · 05-05-2013 08:24PM

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

I do the same, or I maybe on my motorbike. I have gone through checkpoints a few times with my rifle over my shoulder and never asked anything by the Garda.

I do find I get the odd strange comment from others, or I have heard or people saying things behind my back, like "who dies he think he is? Etc"

Though the people that has been said to have answered "he is a hunter, going about his lawful business".

I find that those who are ignorant on this matter are usually from cities [I am myself] but they have no knowlegde on firearms. Though they would be better keeping their mouths shut until they research the facts and the laws that apply here.

Fox_In_Socks · 05-05-2013 08:30PM

Odysseus wrote: »

Though they would be better keeping their mouths shut until they research the facts and the laws that apply here.

Why? What are you going to do to them? Are you going to kill them with your rifle? Is that what you're planning, is it? You're going to shut them up permanently using bullets? Permanently meaning DEAD?

You read it here on boards.ie first, folks.:pac:

Nino Brown · 05-05-2013 08:39PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

Guns are legal in Ireland, but I would definitely reduce the regulation

Odysseus · 05-05-2013 08:41PM

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Why? What are you going to do to them? Are you going to kill them with your rifle? Is that what you're planning, is it? You're going to shut them up permanently using bullets? Permanently meaning DEAD?

You read it here on boards.ie first, folks.:pac:

Well I generally hit what I aim for:pac:

However, seriously, one example would be this woman in his 30s a few doors down from me grasped "he has a fcuking gun!", grabbed her child and belted into her house.

All I was doing was walking down the road, at the end of my road I can slip into some fields where I can hunt from. My rifle was in a case over my shoulder, and my shotgun was in a gun-sock. She said it to another person who lives on the road, and was imply that I was doing something illegal.

Thanksfully the other person knows I'm legally covered and told her so, it was just plan hysteria tbh.

My name is URL · 05-05-2013 08:42PM

People are weird. I'm guessing that if the guy had been carrying a knife or baseball bat and got stopped by police, mouthed off about bits of laws he knows, and refused to cooperate.. that there wouldn't be much discussion here about the rights and wrongs of it.

But when a gun comes into it there's a huge split of opinion about the guy's rights.

Nino Brown · 05-05-2013 08:47PM

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r641/Bishbosh2/484784_10151210174376701_239023510_n_zps2d21b051.jpg

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 05-05-2013 09:43PM

Hownowcow wrote: »

Everyone should be able to stand up for their rights. However, in normal circumstances, this should be done in a reasonable manner. Where there are rights there are also duties. Behaving in an unreasonable manner just irritates.

I don't think he was being unreasonable. It might look like he's being difficult, but if it's his right not to be stopped without being suspected of a crime, and it's his right not to need to identify himself in those circumstances, then he's going to have to say no to people.

It's either his right, or it isn't. Giving him a hard time about it and considering him some sort of troublemaker is exactly how those rights are being eroded. If you have some problem with his rights, those can be changed through the proper process. What people like this are responding to is the overreach of authority figures who either don't know the law themselves, or prey on the public's ignorance of their own rights.

It might look like he's getting his jollies at the cop's expense, but he's taking on extra hassle himself on a point of principle. He's standing up for his rights, and everyone else's. Pretty depressing to see people calling him an unreasonable know-it-all asshole.

Manic Moran · 05-05-2013 10:03PM

zega wrote: »

I think OP is commenting more on the US mentality about guns rather than specific laws.Having guns permeate every aspect of life undoubtable has an effect on how many mass shootings and murders there are in the country.

Can't say id feel safer being surrounded by people carrying guns visibly(that weren't police)

Here's the odd thing. As a general rule, people openly displaying a firearm, slung on the shoulder, or in a holster, generally are not up to no good. They tend to be sure they are acting within the law for a lawful purpose.

Criminals, the folks who you do need to worry about feeling safe around, usually do not openly display their firearms in sight of God, Country and Police.

And since you can't tell the people you need to worry about by just looking at them, It makes stopping visibly armed people a bit pointless.

Carrying assault rifles around town (Google "rifle Apple store" for example) without causing any noticeable panic doesn't seem too hard in Switzerland.

Hownowcow · 05-05-2013 10:39PM

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I don't think he was being unreasonable. It might look like he's being difficult, but if it's his right not to be stopped without being suspected of a crime, and it's his right not to need to identify himself in those circumstances, then he's going to have to say no to people.

It's either his right, or it isn't. Giving him a hard time about it and considering him some sort of troublemaker is exactly how those rights are being eroded. If you have some problem with his rights, those can be changed through the proper process. What people like this are responding to is the overreach of authority figures who either don't know the law themselves, or prey on the public's ignorance of their own rights.

It might look like he's getting his jollies at the cop's expense, but he's taking on extra hassle himself on a point of principle. He's standing up for his rights, and everyone else's. Pretty depressing to see people calling him an unreasonable know-it-all asshole.

A fair point and well made.

I personally believe he is a knowall from his tone and attitude. I believe he could have made his point in a reasonable manner.

I believe that that the police had a duty to investigate his behaviour and showed great forbearance. I believe they did not proceed with the matter following their conversation with him, deciding that he was not a threat to himself or anyone else and was merely out to make a point.

I too believe that he took on extra hassle. However I believe he did so by learning legislative precedent and equipping himself with a camera.

There are rights and there are duties. These may clash.

Finally I am a firm believer in the right to bear arms.

meathstevie · 05-05-2013 10:48PM

SeaDaily wrote: »

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

Eh, sorry for the wake up call but there's thousands of people in Ireland who have guns for hunting, target shooting and pest control purposes and all fully above board and signed for by senior members of the Gardai.

The major difference between here and the US though is the type of firearm a civilian can have in their possession ( one can own any amount of guns in Ireland but possession requires a firearms certificate ) and the fact that firearms certificates are mainly issued for guns used for hunting, target shooting and pest control. A small minority would be for theatrical props, humane killers for vets and captive bolt guns for abbatoirs.

There is no right to bear arms in Ireland as there is in the US and home or self defense is not a valid reason to apply for a firearms certificate either. Put self defence on your application as a reason for having wanting a firearm in Ireland and you can be sure of two things : you won't get it and the Gardai will all of a sudden become quite interested in you.

meathstevie · 05-05-2013 10:56PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Here's the odd thing. As a general rule, people openly displaying a firearm, slung on the shoulder, or in a holster, generally are not up to no good. They tend to be sure they are acting within the law for a lawful purpose.

Criminals, the folks who you do need to worry about feeling safe around, usually do not openly display their firearms in sight of God, Country and Police.

And since you can't tell the people you need to worry about by just looking at them, It makes stopping visibly armed people a bit pointless.

Carrying assault rifles around town (Google "rifle Apple store" for example) without causing any noticeable panic doesn't seem too hard in Switzerland.

That looks like a lovely mint condition SIG alright. The average Swiss lad wouldn't bat an eyelid at one of them, they all have one...

Manic Moran · 05-05-2013 11:08PM

Hownowcow wrote: »

I believe that that the police had a duty to investigate his behaviour.

Why? There was, as far as I know, no indication that he has done anything wrong. Absent some likelihood of lawbreaking, why should anyone who is not doing anything prima facia unlawful be singled out and subjected to the attentions of the police? It's not as if the police will randomly pull over someone for driving a car just to check that he has a driver's license.

Hownowcow · 05-05-2013 11:24PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Why? There was, as far as I know, no indication that he has done anything wrong. Absent some likelihood of lawbreaking, why should anyone who is not doing anything prima facia unlawful be singled out and subjected to the attentions of the police? It's not as if the police will randomly pull over someone for driving a car just to check that he has a driver's license.

From what I saw on the video, the police received a report that there was a guy walking around with a gun. I believe that they had a duty to investigate the report. I believe they did investigate the report and satisified themselves that there was no threat to anyone or unlawful behaviour.

Palmy · 05-05-2013 11:35PM

The problem with these types of idiots is that they are drawing attention to them selves.It's not normal to walk around with weapons in the open.
Yeah if you have a CWW permit then conceal it.Even if it's your right and you dont have to conceal and can open carry.
The Police get over loaded by 911 calls from worried citizens reporting someone walking down the street with a firearm over their shoulder.It draws Law enforcement officers to a guy who is trying to prove a point and his rights,when someone is in real need of Law enforcement officers, but because of idiots like these ten police officers who could be in other places are dealing with this.
You can't tell me if when driving down the road and see a person carrying an AR15 you wouldn't be concerned.What, your going to stop pull out your carry and start a gun battle.Of course not your probably going to call 911 and inform them what you have seen.This could be just a case of a person trying to prove his rights or some nut case on a mission.Using Law enforcement officers time,which we as tax payers,are paying for.

aaakev · 06-05-2013 12:04AM

Or it could just be a law abiding citizen walking around minding his own business being reported for doing nothing....

I was walking along the road one day with my rifle and a car drove past and i noticed the woman because her head nearly fell off staring at me, a few mins later a garda car drove passed and waved. I later found out she went straight to the station and reported someone walking around with a gun. Fair play to the guards for not over reacting. They knew i was doing nothing wrong and felt no need to even stop and talk to me.

Unless the guy in the video was doing anything except walking down the road with a gun on his belt they had no reason to stop him and question him

Palmy · 06-05-2013 12:24AM

Guns are alot more accessable here (In the States).If your going hunting then thats fine.Why would you want to walk say down Grafton Street at lunch time carrying a weapon over your shoulder and not think you are not going to draw attention.?
It's the same here,yes you can legally do it.
It's simple ,guns being carried this way make's people nervous.
How do you think the lady that reported you to the Guards would of felt if she hadn't reported you and you went into the nearest Tesco and shot 10 people dead.Alot of my friends and co-workers carry concealed weapons legally and dont want attention drawn to them.
If you get pulled over by the Police here you hand them your drivers licence and CWW permit at the same time.(if you are carrying)
This is a, I would just like you to know officer i am carrying my concealed weapon on me.Instead of handing him your licence and he goes back to his vechicle and runs a check and it comes back you have a CWW permit.He instintly thinks you are hiding something from him if he comes back and you are carrying.

oppenheimer1 · 06-05-2013 01:17AM

juice1304 wrote: »

NY,Illinois and California have the highest murder rates with firearms in the whole country and they also have the most restrictive gun controls in place so you are wrong. Why don't you go and look at the FBI's statistics on the matter.The cities with the highest number of CCW's has the lowest crime rate. That is just a matter of fact.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Gun On the Street

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