Gun On the Street

SeaDaily

I just watched this video on youtube and am quite shocked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Wkj07p5Ok

It shows a man who has been stopped by police for carrying a gun on the street. The man kicks up a fuss and starts quoting his rights to the police and basically ends up being free to walk away with his gun without even showing ID or a gun licence. This is outrageous! How can Americans defend the gun laws in the US like this? This just seems far too easy for someone to go around carrying a gun on the street. It's for this reason that stuff like Sandy Hook happens.

Would love to know other people's opinions on this I'm a bit lost for words.

Pug160

I can understand why a lot of the world think America's gun laws are bat**** crazy. But there is a method in the madness. For example in the places where a concealed weapon is allowed, there is far less crime.

YFlyer

Sounds like Freeman ****e?

Fox_In_Socks

I suppose "Who gives a ****?" would be the phrase that springs to mind. Let them kill each other. And eat cake.:Pac:

Amirani

Pug160 wrote: »

I can understand why a lot of the world think America's gun laws are bat**** crazy. But there is a method in the madness. For example in the places where a concealed weapon is allowed, there is far less crime.

That's because most of those places are crazy backward towns that most people choose not to live in. Allow people to carry weapons in NY or Chicago and you'd see big increases in the respective murder rates.

juice1304

SeaDaily wrote: »

It's for this reason that stuff like Sandy Hook happens.

How dose someone being able to open carry a firearm have anything to do with a mentally unstable person not entitled to own a firearm have anything to do with it?
Adam lanzy was not entitled to own a firearm and tried on a number of occasions to buy one before the shooting when that failed he stole his mothers pistols and carried out the shooting. It is their constitutional right to own a firearm and they have the right to defend themselves it is different here. To own a pistol in America you need to be 21 or older and have no criminal record when you purchase the firearm a FBI background check is conducted to insure you are legally entitled to own the firearm. What laws did he break? None Who did he hurt? No one.
I don't think open carry is a good idea because it leaves you open to abuse and attack but i have nothing against people with a ccw, To get a concealed carry permit you need special authorization from the chief of police in your area and you also need to take classes for training in firearms manipulation and law. The people who would have a ccw would be the most law abiding citizens you could think of and have prevented mass shootings on a number of occasions. It takes the police quite a bit to get to wherever the shooting is taking place by the time they get there it is over. Also all these mass shootings have taken place in "Gun Free Zones" It is illegal to carry a firearm within 1000FT of a school and the shooting in aurora in the cinema happened in the only one out of another possible seven (four of which were closer to the the shooters home) where people with concealed carry permits were not allowed. In fact i believe all mass shootings in the us bar one since 1957 have happened in gun free zones.

orestes

SeaDaily wrote: »

It's for this reason that stuff like Sandy Hook happens.

Ah, huzzah for hysterics.

juice1304

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's because most of those places are crazy backward towns that most people choose not to live in. Allow people to carry weapons in NY or Chicago and you'd see big increases in the respective murder rates.

NY,Illinois and California have the highest murder rates with firearms in the whole country and they also have the most restrictive gun controls in place so you are wrong. Why don't you go and look at the FBI's statistics on the matter.The cities with the highest number of CCW's has the lowest crime rate. That is just a matter of fact.

miller50841

I can never understand these people that go out of there way with talking about there rights and talking down to the police.

I would love to see what that guy would be saying and doing if someone took his gun and held him hostage then me thinks he would be begging for the police to help,

Stupid Stupid Americaknowitalls:cool:

Hownowcow

The guy himself is a knowall who deliberately set out tocause this incident and then publicise it.
I wouldn’t come to any conclusion on gun laws based on thisincident. I have to deal with knowalls every day of the week. The onlyconclusion I have come to from dealing with them is that knowalls area**eholes.
I have been in a part of the US, a major city, where it isfairly easy and commonplace for law-abiding citizens to apply for and receivepermits to carry concealed firearms, and to carry them. I felt extremely safethere.

_sparkie_

ffs, bloody first year law students.

Nino Brown

Technically the guy is right. But its a stupid attitude to have with cops. If you've done nothing wrong it's actually quicker and easier to be polite, answer the questions and be on your way. You can stand there all day and argue but you're wasting your own time.
I lived in the US and carried concealed weapon when I was there, I don't see why somebody carrying a gun is a good enough reason for somebody to be stopped, or be asked for ID.
We see the news over here, and somebody has gone on a shooting spree, and guns get the blame. What we don't see is the millions of people who carry guns around every day and don't anything stupid.
Let me ask you this, if you walked out of a shop with a pressure cooker, and the cops stopped you and harrassed you about your pressure cooker how would you feel. I mean it's because people can walk around with pressure cookers that stuff like Boston happens right?. And Its because people can buy fertilizer that things like Oklahoma happen....see my point? If somebody wants to kill a lot of people they will.

dd972

Is that a Dylan album I haven't heard of?

holystungun9

Phew! I almost had a full day of having nothing to be outraged about.

Amirani

juice1304 wrote: »

NY,Illinois and California have the highest murder rates with firearms in the whole country and they also have the most restrictive gun controls in place so you are wrong.

That's because they have the cities with the biggest populations. There's absolute zero point to looking at absolute figures.

Here's a table that shows per capita rates: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

Top 3 states there are Southern states with non-restrictive gun laws.

miller50841

Hi my name is Jebus and god told me to do it.

Why would anyone in there right mind walk around in the open with a pistol or any gun in their hand.
There is a lot of videos like that on you tube stupid people they really are. He must be lacking a little something down below it's well known for the guy lacking in that department have to big themselves up some other way ha ha.:pac:

zega

I think OP is commenting more on the US mentality about guns rather than specific laws.Having guns permeate every aspect of life undoubtable has an effect on how many mass shootings and murders there are in the country.

Can't say id feel safer being surrounded by people carrying guns visibly(that weren't police)

orestes

zega wrote: »

I think OP is commenting more on the US mentality about guns rather than specific laws.Having guns permeate every aspect of life undoubtable has an effect on how many mass shootings and murders there are in the country.

Can't say id feel safer being surrounded by people carrying guns visibly(that weren't police)

Ah right, so making a stretched connection between two things even though statistics don't back it up at all is cool, once it's all done for a good cause.

That's called propaganda. Or to put it it simpler terms, talking sh1te.

Fox_In_Socks

orestes wrote: »

Ah right, so making a stretched connection between two things even though statistics don't back it up at all is cool, once it's all done for a good cause.

That's called propaganda. Or to put it it simpler terms, talking sh1te.

What is "talking shonete"?

Miss Lockhart

juice1304 wrote: »

NY,Illinois and California have the highest murder rates with firearms in the whole country and they also have the most restrictive gun controls in place so you are wrong. Why don't you go and look at the FBI's statistics on the matter.The cities with the highest number of CCW's has the lowest crime rate. That is just a matter of fact.

How do the crime stats and gun death rates of places in the US with more liberal gun control compare to other countries with stricter controls, say the UK for example?

Hank Scorpio

Hate guys like this. If he was just walking down the street and being stopped then fine but hes carrying a gun on a public street and people are rightfully cautious. Cops only want to see his ID for public safety reasons

SeaDaily

orestes wrote: »

Ah right, so making a stretched connection between two things even though statistics don't back it up at all is cool, once it's all done for a good cause.

That's called propaganda. Or to put it it simpler terms, talking sh1te.

Propaganda? Really?
Also statistics can prove pretty much anything you want them to depending on which way you look at them.

All I'm trying to say is how does it make any sense that someone can walk around with a gun in public like this. How can we know that this man did have a licence? We can't because he didn't have to produce it. This means that someone with no licence for a gun could go out onto the street give a policeman the same bulls**t spiel as this lad and get away with it.

Another previous poster said that he wasn't breaking any laws and used that to defend the man in question. My problem is not that he was breaking a law but rather that he WASN'T breaking any law. This seems ridiculous to me.

Nino Brown

nuxxx wrote: »

Hate guys like this. If he was just walking down the street and being stopped then fine but hes carrying a gun on a public street and people are rightfully cautious. Cops only want to see his ID for public safety reasons

Was he carrying a gun or just wearing it?, they're 2 very different things. I assume he was wearing it, which may seem odd to you, but its not in country where its legal to carry a gun.

orestes

SeaDaily wrote: »

Propaganda? Really?
Also statistics can prove pretty much anything you want them to depending on which way you look at them.

All I'm trying to say is how does it make any sense that someone can walk around with a gun in public like this. How can we know that this man did have a licence? We can't because he didn't have to produce it. This means that someone with no licence for a gun could go out onto the street give a policeman the same bulls**t spiel as this lad and get away with it.

Another previous poster said that he wasn't breaking any laws and used that to defend the man in question. My problem is not that he was breaking a law but rather that he WASN'T breaking any law. This seems ridiculous to me.

See, this is what I meant by hysterics. You are freaking out and giving out about something that you admit that you know almost nothing about and doesn't even effect you in any way, does that not seem a bit ridiculous to you?

Nino Brown

SeaDaily wrote: »

Propaganda? Really?
Also statistics can prove pretty much anything you want them to depending on which way you look at them.

All I'm trying to say is how does it make any sense that someone can walk around with a gun in public like this. How can we know that this man did have a licence? We can't because he didn't have to produce it.

Another previous poster said that he wasn't breaking any laws and used that to defend the man in question. My problem is not that he was breaking a law but rather that he WASN'T breaking any law. This seems ridiculous to me.

You don't need a license in the US, the laws vary greatly from state to state, but in some states the guns aren't registered to any owner. What is so ridiculous, he was just doing the same thing that millions of people in the US alone do everyday. Because it seems odd to you doesn't make it wrong.

SeaDaily

Nino Brown wrote: »

You don't need a license in the US, the laws vary greatly from state to state, but in some states the guns aren't registered to any owner. What is so ridiculous, he was just doing the same thing that millions of people in the US alone do everyday. Because it seems odd to you doesn't make it wrong.

I disagree. In my mind it is wrong that he can carry a gun in public. Just because millions of Americans are doing it doesn't make it right. Very weak argument.

Nino Brown

SeaDaily wrote: »

I disagree. In my mind it is wrong that he can carry a gun in public. Just because millions of Americans are doing it doesn't make it right. Very weak argument.

You're argument is weak. Its wrong because you think it is?, I wasn't aware the moral compass for the world is a member of boards.ie . You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it doesn't mean anything, guns are legal in the US, and they will continue to be. I happen to think it's a great culture, I have experienced it, and carried guns in public places. You on the other hand are forming a judgement most likely based on what you see on TV.

SeaDaily

Nino Brown wrote: »

You're argument is weak. Its wrong because you think it is?

Nope, I think you'll find what I said was "In my mind it is wrong" and as you said I am entitled to my own opinion.

Pug160

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

How do the crime stats and gun death rates of places in the US with more liberal gun control compare to other countries with stricter controls, say the UK for example?

I think a lot of gun deaths in America are suicides as well. That would up the stats a lot too. But there's no denying that the overall rate is pretty high. The UK does have a low rate. At the end of the day, people are going to murder. There's no possible way of wrapping us up in cotton wool. Cars and vans have been used as deadly weapons. The GP Harold Shipman murdered hundreds of people without a gun. There are 14000 knife crime victims in the UK every year. Guns are only one tool - a very dangerous and deadly tool admittedly - but one of many.

Nino Brown

Very true, and also worth mentioning is, whenever there is a school shooting, or something like that it's all over the news around the world.
What you don't see on the news is "Man points gun at burglar, burglar flees, no shots fired", and these sort of things are the things that happen all over the US everyday, guns preventing crime, but its not worth reporting.

mikehammer67

did anyone get shotup that clicked on the link

before i try it

Nino Brown

And, if I remember correctly gun ownership is pretty much mandatory in Switzerland and it has an extremely low crime rate

SeaDaily

Pug160 wrote: »

I think a lot of gun deaths in America are suicides as well. That would up the stats a lot too. But there's no denying that the overall rate is pretty high. The UK does have a low rate. At the end of the day, people are going to murder. There's no possible way of wrapping us up in cotton wool. Cars and vans have been used as deadly weapons. The GP Harold Shipman murdered hundreds of people without a gun. There are 14000 knife crime victims in the UK every year. Guns are only one tool - a very dangerous and deadly tool admittedly - but one of many.

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

DonkeyStyle \o/

How dare he stand up for his rights and talk back to his majesty the policeman.

miller50841

SeaDaily wrote: »

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

I suppose that is a debate for another day.

I do believe the Irish police force should be armed and at a minimum have tazers. Most other forces are armed and I am very surprised that the British still aren't fully armed.

I think we are lucky though that the gun's aren't as easy as the states to get. Too many crazies going around:)

aaakev

SeaDaily wrote: »

I disagree. In my mind it is wrong that he can carry a gun in public. Just because millions of Americans are doing it doesn't make it right. Very weak argument.

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

Hownowcow

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

How dare he stand up for his rights and talk back to his majesty the policeman.

Everyone should be able to stand up for their rights. However, in normal circumstances, this should be done in a reasonable manner. Where there are rights there are also duties. Behaving in an unreasonable manner just irritates.

miller50841

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

Your not on a street walking around with lots of others around.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing someone up the mountains or in fields etc.

The part where most would worry is a person with a firearm in a busy public place I have to say would scare a lot especially the way things are going.

Pug160

SeaDaily wrote: »

But killing someone with a gun and a knife are so different. It's so easy to pull the trigger of a gun. Not so easy to stab someone to death. This argument that people are going to murder no matter what is so tiresome.

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

It's not an argument, it's reality. There are 14000 knife crime incidents in the UK every year. Guns make killing very easy but if someone wants to kill they will.

What's to stop someone looking at manuals on the internet showing them how to make relatively simple and crude bombs? If someone is that intent on harming others they will. Not having a gun may put some people off, but not everybody - far from it.

SeaDaily

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

To be honest, yes I find it sort of off-putting that there would be people walking around with guns. But I'd hope that if you were stopped by the gardaí and asked to produce the necessary documentation for the gun you would deal with the situation respectfully not like the prick in the video.

aaakev

miller50841 wrote: »

Your not on a street walking around with lots of others around.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing someone up the mountains or in fields etc.

The part where most would worry is a person with a firearm in a busy public place I have to say would scare a lot especially the way things are going.

Yes i am, i said i walk along some main roads. Some are ring roads where a fair few people walk their dogs, jog or cycle and i walk along them from one field to another and often pass alot of people on my way

SeaDaily

aaakev wrote: »

Yes i am, i said i walk along some main roads. Some are ring roads where a fair few people walk their dogs, jog or cycle and i walk along them from one field to another and often pass alot of people on my way

What he means is your not in a public place like O'Connell or somewhere like that. If it's obvious that you are using the rifle for hunting then obviously it's not the same as if you were randomly carrying around with you when you were out and about.

aaakev

SeaDaily wrote: »

To be honest, yes I find it sort of off-putting that there would be people walking around with guns. But I'd hope that if you were stopped by the gardaí and asked to produce the necessary documentation for the gun you would deal with the situation respectfully not like the prick in the video.

Why? Im clearly not up to no good, im wearing a camo jacket, combats and boots and have a hunting rifle on my shoulder.

Just curious, what do you mean by off putting?

Well in this country i have no right to own a gun so i have to comply with a guards request for id and licence so that wouldnt be an issue

miller50841

SeaDaily wrote: »

What he means is your not in a public place like O'Connell or somewhere like that. If it's obvious that you are using the rifle for hunting then obviously it's not the same as if you were randomly carrying around with you when you were out and about.

Thanks seaDaily I couldn't have said it better myself.:)

I meant to say that but drifted off there:pac:

Odysseus

aaakev wrote: »

I regularly carry a gun in public when going hunting i could have my rifle slung over my shoulder walking along some main roads. Do you think that is wrong?

I do the same, or I maybe on my motorbike. I have gone through checkpoints a few times with my rifle over my shoulder and never asked anything by the Garda.

I do find I get the odd strange comment from others, or I have heard or people saying things behind my back, like "who dies he think he is? Etc"

Though the people that has been said to have answered "he is a hunter, going about his lawful business".

I find that those who are ignorant on this matter are usually from cities [I am myself] but they have no knowlegde on firearms. Though they would be better keeping their mouths shut until they research the facts and the laws that apply here.

Fox_In_Socks

Odysseus wrote: »

Though they would be better keeping their mouths shut until they research the facts and the laws that apply here.

Why? What are you going to do to them? Are you going to kill them with your rifle? Is that what you're planning, is it? You're going to shut them up permanently using bullets? Permanently meaning DEAD?

You read it here on boards.ie first, folks.:pac:

Nino Brown

SeaDaily wrote: »

And just a question to all those defending the place of guns in American society: if it were up to you would you legalize guns in Ireland?

Guns are legal in Ireland, but I would definitely reduce the regulation

Odysseus

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Why? What are you going to do to them? Are you going to kill them with your rifle? Is that what you're planning, is it? You're going to shut them up permanently using bullets? Permanently meaning DEAD?

You read it here on boards.ie first, folks.:pac:

Well I generally hit what I aim for:pac:

However, seriously, one example would be this woman in his 30s a few doors down from me grasped "he has a fcuking gun!", grabbed her child and belted into her house.

All I was doing was walking down the road, at the end of my road I can slip into some fields where I can hunt from. My rifle was in a case over my shoulder, and my shotgun was in a gun-sock. She said it to another person who lives on the road, and was imply that I was doing something illegal.

Thanksfully the other person knows I'm legally covered and told her so, it was just plan hysteria tbh.

My name is URL

People are weird. I'm guessing that if the guy had been carrying a knife or baseball bat and got stopped by police, mouthed off about bits of laws he knows, and refused to cooperate.. that there wouldn't be much discussion here about the rights and wrongs of it.

But when a gun comes into it there's a huge split of opinion about the guy's rights.

Nino Brown

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r641/Bishbosh2/484784_10151210174376701_239023510_n_zps2d21b051.jpg

DonkeyStyle \o/

Hownowcow wrote: »

Everyone should be able to stand up for their rights. However, in normal circumstances, this should be done in a reasonable manner. Where there are rights there are also duties. Behaving in an unreasonable manner just irritates.

I don't think he was being unreasonable. It might look like he's being difficult, but if it's his right not to be stopped without being suspected of a crime, and it's his right not to need to identify himself in those circumstances, then he's going to have to say no to people.

It's either his right, or it isn't. Giving him a hard time about it and considering him some sort of troublemaker is exactly how those rights are being eroded. If you have some problem with his rights, those can be changed through the proper process. What people like this are responding to is the overreach of authority figures who either don't know the law themselves, or prey on the public's ignorance of their own rights.

It might look like he's getting his jollies at the cop's expense, but he's taking on extra hassle himself on a point of principle. He's standing up for his rights, and everyone else's. Pretty depressing to see people calling him an unreasonable know-it-all asshole.