td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

Mr Tibbs · 04-05-2013 06:52PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Well yes I agree about their hypocrisy and selective morality, but that's a different issue.

The idea that TDs will not be able to receive Communion is absolutely not true in the sense that the Irish Bishops have never actually said this.

This thread just lost the run of itself.

Yes you are right, nowhere did I read of such a statement by the church here in Ireland. Sorry for the cheap shot but I think that would be the response
if such a statement was made and I'm sure those in high authority in the church are well aware of this. But like you I am confused by this threads title. Its not fair, it seem the first casualty is the truth sadly on boards sometimes.

jimd2 · 04-05-2013 06:54PM

This thread should be closed as the original premise is without foundation.

Palx · 04-05-2013 07:03PM

False 9 wrote: »

Oh no! No more magic bread!

.

Don't know what church you go to

We get biscuits in ours.

:rolleyes:

NakedNNettles · 04-05-2013 07:14PM

Politics and religion are all about power and neither power players like when the other has the influence. That can make them look bad in front of their supporters .....it's a dirty game!

In 'cardinal busybody bigmouth's case ......going up against 'politicians under pressure' is like poking a hungry lion with a bow and sunction cup arrows. The guy is obviously getting a little too cocky for the government's liking, i'd expect he will be getting busy again real soon dealing with another round of church scandals.

mikom · 04-05-2013 07:16PM

jimd2 wrote: »

This thread should be closed as the original premise is without foundation.

Catholicism?

Gummy Panda · 04-05-2013 07:48PM

I always found it strange that so many people follow a god that allowed himself to be nailed to a cross.

pablomakaveli · 04-05-2013 07:49PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Any group or organization is entitled to 'stick their nose in Irish politics'.

That's a normal feature of democracy.

I'd be more curious as to why RTE dedicated the first 20 minutes of the 1 o'clock news (News at One) to the Bishops' statement and an interview with the Cardinal.

Of course, if they ring, or show up at the Conference, he's going to speak to them.

But he wasn't exactly banging a path down to RTE to speak to Cathal Mac Coille. They came to him.

They can by all means but since im a firm believer in secularism id rather the Catholic church didnt.

Kiwi in IE · 04-05-2013 07:54PM

Any TD who is known to be influenced by such a threat should be dismissed. If they cannot put the best interests of the State and its citizens before their belief in fairytales while in a professional role, they are incompetent at their job. In fact, if they put the demands of the RCC (Vatican) before the best interests of Ireland, it should be viewed as treason.

jimd2 · 04-05-2013 09:07PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Any TD who is known to be influenced by such a threat should be dismissed. If they cannot put the best interests of the State and its citizens before their belief in fairytales while in a professional role, they are incompetent at their job. In fact, if they put the demands of the RCC (Vatican) before the best interests of Ireland, it should be viewed as treason.

Have you read the thread or are you reacting to the first pot?

I posted earlier that the thread should be closed and this post proves my point.

Are the moderators taking a break for the bank holiday?

Kiwi in IE · 04-05-2013 09:47PM

jimd2 wrote: »

Have you read the thread or are you reacting to the first pot?

I posted earlier that the thread should be closed and this post proves my point.

Are the moderators taking a break for the bank holiday?

Yeah sorry. Got through several pages and the replied before reading the last few. Interesting point though, treason and how it applies to such a situation. Started another thread in A&A asking about it.

Birroc · 04-05-2013 11:04PM

Can they not get "I can't believe it's not Jesus" on the black market??

glynf · 04-05-2013 11:21PM

Religion has no place in politics, especially something as sensitive as the abortion debate. What the hell do a bunch of socially disconnected, geriatric virgins have to add that is in anyway relevant?

The catholic church should just go f**k off.

I Heart Internet · 04-05-2013 11:45PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I always found it strange that so many people follow a god that allowed himself to be nailed to a cross.

You should probably do a little reading to find out why He allowed himself to be nailed to a cross. That might explain why so many people find the idea attractive.

I Heart Internet · 04-05-2013 11:50PM

glynf wrote: »

Religion has no place in politics, especially something as sensitive as the abortion debate. What the hell do a bunch of socially disconnected, geriatric virgins have to add that is in anyway relevant?

The catholic church should just go f**k off.

It's amazing, utterly amazing how many people completly misunderstand (or haven't heard of) the concept od civil society.

A strong civil society is at the backbone of a healthy democracy. The strength of civil society is in its diversity. As many points of view as possible is what's needed. Views from academia, trade unions, NGOs, media, charities, citizens, churches, etc, etc.

Time and again people suggest that the church has no role in political debate. Those people need to learn about democracy.

Phoebas · 04-05-2013 11:59PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You should probably do a little reading to find out why He allowed himself to be nailed to a cross. That might explain why so many people find the idea attractive.

It was all part of some grand scheme to save mankind from the sinfulness he created them with. He could have just done a spell or something, but he went with the whole elaborate crucifiction / resurrection plan.
It didn't work out, but an heroic attempt nonetheless.

Napper Hawkins · 05-05-2013 04:16AM

Why exactly does a paedophile ring think it has the right to an opinion on anything ever? Apart from child rape of course! They know a thing or two about that, the rascals! Night all! Xx

murraykil · 05-05-2013 04:52AM

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Why exactly does a paedophile ring think it has the right to an opinion on anything ever? Apart from child rape of course! They know a thing or two about that, the rascals! Night all! Xx

A lot of people still love and support the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church despite their facilitation of child abuse, their attempts to cover it up and their absolute failure to make amends, seek forgiveness, or help enforce justice.

The doctrine of the church is more important than anything. If it wasn't such a serious issue, their stance on the right to life of an un-born child would be laughable when you consider what they have done to so many needy and vulnerable children.

Their stance on contraception is more about increasing their numbers more than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the reasoning for their stance on abortion was the same.

awec · 05-05-2013 11:02AM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Any group or organization is entitled to 'stick their nose in Irish politics'.

That's a normal feature of democracy.

I'd be more curious as to why RTE dedicated the first 20 minutes of the 1 o'clock news (News at One) to the Bishops' statement and an interview with the Cardinal.

Of course, if they ring, or show up at the Conference, he's going to speak to them.

But he wasn't exactly banging a path down to RTE to speak to Cathal Mac Coille. They came to him.

Perhaps it was the hilarity of an organisation like the catholic church trying to tell anyone what is morally right. Would you take a lecture on morals from Gary Glitter or Jimmy Saville?

When you have filth like Sean Brady in high positions within your organisation telling anyone what is morally wrong of course people are going to be outraged.

People are entitled to have their view, organisations that abused children and then covered it up are not. They have no credibility any more and should be told in no uncertain terms to fcuk off.

Birroc · 05-05-2013 11:14AM

awec wrote: »

When you have filth like Sean Brady in high positions within your organisation telling anyone what is morally wrong of course people are going to be outraged.

That's it exactly. Anyone that supports an organisation led by that creep Brady needs to take a long hard look at themselves. In 1975 he made 2 poor abused children take an oath of silence and then looked the other way when Smyth was moved from parish to parish to abuse many more children. His excuse was he was doing his job. He has never done his job and should be in prison long ago. People that support the likes of Sean Brady should be ashamed. Cowards all.

glynf · 05-05-2013 11:33AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

It's amazing, utterly amazing how many people completly misunderstand (or haven't heard of) the concept od civil society.

A strong civil society is at the backbone of a healthy democracy. The strength of civil society is in its diversity. As many points of view as possible is what's needed. Views from academia, trade unions, NGOs, media, charities, citizens, churches, etc, etc.

Time and again people suggest that the church has no role in political debate. Those people need to learn about democracy.

They are certainly entitled to their opinion, but lets face it the catholic church has overstepped the mark by trying to manipulate politicians who support abortion by refusing communion-a sneaky, scummy tactic as most rural politicians rely on the older god fearing demographic for re-election.

The main issue I have is they try and shove said opinion down everyone else's throats. I can't understand who in their right mind would take moral/spiritual guidance from such a bunch of hypocrites who have and still actively covered up clerical child abuse?

Abortion should be the right and choice of the woman seeking an abortion, most people are capable of making rational and moral decisions on their own. The catholic church should only have an opinion when women are ordained as priests.

Cody Pomeray · 05-05-2013 11:36AM

awec wrote: »

Perhaps it was the hilarity of an organisation like the catholic church trying to tell anyone what is morally right. Would you take a lecture on morals from Gary Glitter or Jimmy Saville?

I wouldn't take a lecture from them. And I wouldn't be ringing them up requesting a 20 minute lecture as the main piece on the news either.

That's why, like I said, the main question is why the media are focusing such major attention on a pretty bland Bishops' statement, which said nothing about denying Communion. Again for emphasis - nothing.

Almaviva · 05-05-2013 11:53AM

Have they fleshed out how the ban will work ?

TD's to be 'pre-approved' by the church to take communion; carry a voting card from the dail showing how they voted; a blacklist with mugshots of the non conforming tds at the entrance of churches; a new website keeping priests nationwide up to date on who qualifies and who doesnt ?

What are they they going to do about tds going abroad for communion? Do TDs have a right to travel if that is the purpose of their trip? What if they are suicidal? How many psychiatrists will decide if they are really suicidal ?

How can they expect tds to make a decision without knowing the full details?

RobertKK · 05-05-2013 11:56AM

glynf wrote: »

They are certainly entitled to their opinion, but lets face it the catholic church has overstepped the mark by trying to manipulate politicians who support abortion by refusing communion-a sneaky, scummy tactic as most rural politicians rely on the older god fearing demographic for re-election.

The main issue I have is they try and shove said opinion down everyone else's throats. I can't understand who in their right mind would take moral/spiritual guidance from such a bunch of hypocrites who have and still actively covered up clerical child abuse?

Abortion should be the right and choice of the woman seeking an abortion, most people are capable of making rational and moral decisions on their own. The catholic church should only have an opinion when women are ordained as priests.

A Catholic is suppose to live a Catholic life. Abortion is a life and death matter and it has been practice for those who legislate or support abortion and who claim to be catholic to be refused the sacraments.

Plenty of women go to mass, plenty of women are against abortion, and plenty of people view abortion as a human rights violation.

Lightbulb Sun · 05-05-2013 12:00PM

Any source/link for this? Don't see any in the OP.

HurtLocker · 05-05-2013 12:08PM

Has there ever been a survey of serving TDs who actually go to mass every week.

Keep your catholic morals off me. I hate how the church and some church members think they can force non members to adhere to their morals. F*ck off please.

the culture of deference · 05-05-2013 12:14PM

Phoebas wrote: »

It was all part of some grand scheme to save mankind from the sinfulness he created them with. He could have just done a spell or something, but he went with the whole elaborate crucifiction / resurrection plan.
It didn't work out, but an heroic attempt nonetheless.

Not only that,

god sent down an angel and found a sexy 12 year old virgin Girl (just to be clear) who he impregnated with himself.

jimd2 wrote: »

Just because I have a different opinion to you I have to be living on a different planet. Says a lot more about you than me.

And your point about detection of pregnancy early on is mind numbingly naive. Early stage miscarriages happen - We didn't need your post to confirm that. Of course the woman may not know She had been pregnant in some cases..

It's nothing about a different opinion.

It's about reality and bullsh1t.

you choose to ignore all the evil that the catholic church has done, you ignore the evidence, and you choose still to believe bullsh1t when it is clearly BS. The issue is with you, not me.

The point about miscarriages is that if you believe god designed it (there is no god) with natural abortion built in, then god aborts 70% of all possible children.

I cannot be responsible for your misconstruing of facts.

Birroc · 05-05-2013 12:17PM

=RobertKK;84471219Plenty of women go to mass, plenty of women are against abortion, and plenty of people view abortion as a human rights violation.

Its interesting how women are essentially 2nd class citizens as far as the Roman catholic church is concerned and yet they (especially the older ones) are it's bigger supporters. Makes them look a little foolish really.

Lets face it though, this new "abortion" bill changes nothing. We will continue to export our abortions especially where suicide is an issue - the option of the flight to UK as opposed to convincing 6 medical experts, what would most do?

murraykil · 05-05-2013 12:17PM

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

Any source/link for this? Don't see any in the OP.

Cardinal Sean Brady said the bishops have not discussed whether politicians who advocate support for the legislation should be barred from communion, as has happened in some US dioceses.

"There would be a great reluctance to politicise the Eucharist," he told RTE Radio.

"I say that they (politicians) have an obligation to oppose the laws that are attacking something so fundamental as the right to life and they would have to follow their own conscience."

kildare-nationalist.ie

I wonder is the reluctance to politicise the Eucharist as strong as the reluctance to publicise child abuse.

Cody Pomeray · 05-05-2013 12:19PM

Almaviva wrote: »

Have they fleshed out how the ban will work ?

TD's to be 'pre-approved' by the church to take communion; carry a voting card from the dail showing how they voted; a blacklist with mugshots of the non conforming tds at the entrance of churches; a new website keeping priests nationwide up to date on who qualifies and who doesnt ?

What are they they going to do about tds going abroad for communion? Do TDs have a right to travel if that is the purpose of their trip? What if they are suicidal? How many psychiatrists will decide if they are really suicidal ?

How can they expect tds to make a decision without knowing the full details?

The OP was wrong. He misunderstood the interview.

The Cardinal in question, and the Irish Bishops, did not say TDs will be refused Communion.

The Cardinal actually said he didn't want to politicize Communion, so how the OP took this understanding of events is curious.

I have no problem with people criticizing the Catholic Church - as I, an agnostic, do. What I do have a problem with is with characterizing anyone as having said something offensive which they absolutely did not.

nowanathiest · 05-05-2013 12:21PM

murraykil wrote: »

A lot of people still love and support the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church despite their facilitation of child abuse, their attempts to cover it up and their absolute failure to make amends, seek forgiveness, or help enforce justice.

The doctrine of the church is more important than anything. If it wasn't such a serious issue, their stance on the right to life of an un-born child would be laughable when you consider what they have done to so many needy and vulnerable children.

Their stance on contraception is more about increasing their numbers more than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the reasoning for their stance on abortion was the same.

Agree, the irony is that the Catholic Church needs women far more than they need it. I have long believed that the ban in contraception is there to ensure their numbers do not dwindle. They need women to have as many babies as possible - they are new recruits.

They further need women to remain in the fold to raise these children in the Catholic faith and ensure the organisation's future. What baffles me is what women get in return? I cannot fathom what benefits there are for women to remain in the catholic church, other than habit and tradition.

td's wont be allowed to take communion if they vote for abortion.

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