Does anyone feel insulted by the abortion proposals?

Can anyone give me, or point me towards, a brief synopsis of what's going on/went on on Primetime?

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As a personal pro-lifer

Do you really need it pointed out to you at this stage that you are pro choice?

No one wants an abortion. None of us would choose an abortion if we didn't need it. We just want the option open for that women that do need and want the choice. As do you. I wish you could recognise that. You are pro-choice in all but your own personal acknowledgment. Please embrace it so we can move on.

Lucinda Creighton is saying she will follow her "moral judgement" on the legislation. I'm sorry, when did you get elected to represent your personal views, Lucinda? I do believe this is a representative democracy. Get out and ask your constituents what they think.
And she's not the only one. I can't for the life of me understand how these TDs justify themselves in taking personal viewpoints into matters of national importance.

As for the three doctors to decide on whether a woman is suicidal or not, while I am personally horrified by the thought of Irish women having to go to such lengths to obtain something they have a constitutional right to, I am not that surprised. And with so many conservative politicians in the Dáil, it's better than what they could have come up with. Six would have been an utter joke.

The more of this legislation I hear about, the more of a joke it seems to be.

It isn't good on the mental health front, because I don't think abortion is a good treatment for suicidal feelings. Also, going to three doctors for being suicidal? :S It's hard enough to talk to one person about thinking about killing yourself, and, since the doctors may be split along conservative and liberal lines, their may be incredible stress on the pregnant woman. Although, it may raise the issue of mental health during pregnancy. There doesn't seem to be any pre-natal(?) mental health specialists outside Dublin, and I don't think any real help for the woman's emotional/mental health during pregnancy. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even think of this before it was mentioned on today's Morning Edition. *

On the abortion side, it's a total joke. If anything they've increased the restriction on abortions in the country, and taken more of the woman's freedom over her body. It shouldn't be if a person will die, or the child will die, but a natural human right that a person has control over their own body. It really does seem that they are taking the decision away from the woman, and spreading it on the decisions of other professionals. Also, it seems to imply that a woman should have a child unless her life is at risk, rather than unless she doesn't want to have a child.

It's just a really, really horrible legislative solution.

*I think the presenters were slapping themselves on the back, and saying we would get back to a pre-famine population by 2046 a bit after the above section.

Morag wrote: »

The bill has been released

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B954SdlrGC2lZ0pPQ19zdWpvenc/edit

It includes this



So anybody who orders and takes the abortion pill if found out and prosecuted may face 14 years of a prison sentence.

Yet again criminalising those who can't go to the UK. If you can leave Ireland to obtain an abortion, that's grand. If you can't afford the flights and fees so you order an abortifactant (which may also be dangerous to your health) you go to jail.

How long do you get for rape again? Five years? I despair, I really do.

sunshine and showers wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm suggesting, but this is not an ordinary legislative decision, this is a very important national matter that has been all but ignored for 21 years.
If Creighton's "moral position" tells her that abortion in the case of suicide should not be allowed, then I'm sorry, but voting in accordance with that is not right. 2 referenda have been held on the issue and both times the people (who she is supposed to represent) have voted to say that the risk of suicide is a legitimate reason to have an abortion in Ireland.

No matter how much I disagree with her or any politician, if people are not happy with her, she shouldn't be re-elected but I don't think anybody should have to vote according to anything but their personal beliefs.

Das Kitty wrote: »

It will happen eventually.

Ten years ago it would have been difficult to envisage that we'd be having a marriage equality vote.

Yeah, that's true. Its a disgrace how hard fought this battle to date has been though and what minuscule progress has been made.

The 14 years penalty has really angered and upset me. I wasn't expecting that at all. When you compare it to sentences for other crimes its beyond excessive. It really does show what out TD's think of women who have abortions that they feel they deserve 14 years in jail. The stigma lives on

I want to know; in the case of suicide risk, wtf has an obstetrician/gynecologist got to do with it? I mean I understand they are the ones performing the procedure, but in assessing a woman, surely only a psychiatrist is qualified in that respect?

IMO (which I know has no standing really) 2 psychiatrists at most, 1 a professional in suicide specifically and 1 who is a whatever natal psychiatrist (good to see my study in nursing has me up-to-date with all the lingo ) and a third in that field if they are undecided. 3 is still madness, Britain require 2 doctors!

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think they do. But I think it was sort of a: "ah shure if we scare them enough with the sentence they might have it done outside of the country and we can go on pretending those things don't happen".



As for full abortion, I think Irealnd will have full marriage equality long before the proper abortion and there are couple of reasons for it. It seems to be international trend at the moment while the abortion debate is only going on here (in the way that matters). The fact that abortion can be relativley easily obtained in UK, Holland or some other country doesn't help either. Most of the people who want to have it travel abroad and the issue really only gets momentum when people who can't travel for whatever reason are involved.

Maybe they don't but 14 years for the 'crime' of trying to procure an abortion when the right to have one abroad is actually enshrined in our constitution is insane. I'm sure any potential case would be treated sensitively but when you look at the sentences handed out for genuine criminal acts this is disproportionate. It yet again adds to the stigma because in the eyes of the law at least having an abortion is considered a serious offence.

vitani wrote: »

I'd absolutely agree with that. It was put to a vote and the people of this country voted in favour of keeping a risk of suicide as grounds for termination. No TD should have the right to vote against the decision made in a referendum, regardless of their own personal beliefs.

I know the argument they can come out with is that the legislation itself isn't satisfactory and they want 10/12/50 doctors to agree on a suicide risk, but tbh, I think we all know that the majority are voting from a pro-life position and that's unacceptable when it comes to their duty to enact legislation.

NObody voted on this specific law though. What some of you are suggesting here is to just ignore democracy when it doesn't suit you, there is a reason pairlaments have to vote laws through. Btw the same was done by political parties who didn't act on supreme court decision.